Helpful Replyproblem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers

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RCT
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2015/04/09 08:14:42 (permalink)

problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers

Hi

I have a freaky problem. I have steinberg ur 22, m-audio keystation 49 ( i also tried an alesisv49) keyboard controller and i'm using x2.

when i boot up the computer the keyboards seem to be working with no latency. I tap a key and as soon as the key hits the bottom there is sound. But, when I try to play along with a prerecorded track the keyboards dont produce a sound until the key comes back UP. So everything I try to play is like a half second to late.

Then I try to play the keyboards by themselves and everything is a half second too late.

I reboot the computer and the keyboards work just fine. Try to play along with recorded tracks and the keyboards are half second too late ( don't make sound until the key is in up position ) and stay that way until I reboot again.
 
Any help will greatly be appreciated
#1
Beagle
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 08:50:40 (permalink)
which driver mode are you using in Sonar for the Steinberg?
what are you hardware latency settings? (reported in the Preferences>audio section)
 

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RCT
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 09:34:11 (permalink)
Hi Beagle
 
Asio
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 09:38:42 (permalink)
Welcome to the forum!
Beagles questions above are the ones to start with, then...
Do you mean litterally : The keys don't make a sound untill they're released? Even if you keep the key pressed for a longer time? Or do you mean you just have a latency of approximately 500 ms? It's good to be accurate with the details.
 
What do you mean by "the keyboard works fine untill you play along a recorded track"?
Do you have another soft synth employed to make the sound before you play along a track or how do you verify they're OK bvefore that? Those keyboards don't produce a sound of any kind, so what soft synths are you using when you play them "by themselves"? Some  soft synths are much heavier on the CPU than others.

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RCT
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 09:53:17 (permalink)
literally---the keys do not produce a sound until released.  However; when I restart x2 the keys produce a sound when they are tapped down.  But then I try to play along with other tracks and they don't produce a sound until the key is up.  Now, that might mean I have a latency of 500 ms, I'm not sure. 
 
The soft synth I am using is si drumkit
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RCT
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 12:10:28 (permalink)
OK, I'm thinking it is an input echo problem.  
 
When I first open x2 with input echo off I get no sound. When I press input echo on everything works correctly. Press the key and get instant sound.
When I play the other tracks and try to play along their is a latency issue. The sound is a half second or 500ms too late.
Kalle        The keyboard does make sound if I hold the key down. But, when trying to play along the sound doesn't happen until the key has reached the up position.
when I turn on the tracks to play along with there is the delay. When I stop and play the keyboard it is in the same delay mode. But, if I turn the main input echo on and off. The keyboard produces the sound with no latency
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robert_e_bone
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 12:11:51 (permalink)
Does the same thing happen if right before you begin Play, you first temporarily bypass your effects?  (Hit E on your computer keyboard to toggle effects processing off/on)
So bypass effects, then play, see if it makes any difference, (hit E again to turn effects back on)
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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RCT
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 12:28:13 (permalink)
Hello Bob Bone
 
EEEEEHHHHHAAAWWWWW!!!!!!!!  Thank YOU, Thank YOU, Thank YOU!!!
 
You are the man!!!!!
 
Thanks to everyone who responded!!!!!!!
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robert_e_bone
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/09 15:07:36 (permalink)
If the issues go away when you toggle effects off, then it means one or more plugins effects in the project are adding a bunch of DPC latency, which you definitely do not want while recording.  One or more than one of your plugins is likely doing some Look-Ahead processing, which will spike latency.  Those types of plugins are really meant to be used in your project during MIXING/Mastering, and NOT while actually still doing tracking/recording.
 
So, please list all effects plugins this project has loaded, and I will try to help you figure out which ones to do something about.
 
Don't be alarmed by this, by the way.  Once you start the mixing process, any if those plugins can be loaded in - you will just have to jack up your ASIO Buffer Size a BUNCH to make it big enough to handle the more lush effects.  It is the nature of the beast - track/record with a smaller ASIO Buffer Size, and mix/master with a GIANT ASIO Buffer Size, and switch back and forth as you go from recording into mixing. for the rest of time.
 
Bob Bone

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#9
RCT
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/10 15:07:07 (permalink)
Hi Bob,
I was using LP64 multiband, LP64 eq, and Vx64-vocal strip on first two tracks and only Sonitus eq on the third track
 
Thats it!
Thanks for your help.
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tlw
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/10 15:40:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby robert_e_bone 2015/04/10 19:25:05
The LP64 multiband adds quite a bit of latency, the Sonitus eq doesn't (or if it does I've never noticed it). Don't know about the vocal strip as I don't use it much if at all.
 
The LP64 is really more of a tool for use at the mastering stage than while tracking. Latency is much less of an issue at mastering. Other high latency introducing culprits include compressors/gates that look ahead, convolution reverbs (and guitar amp emulators that use convolution to emulate speaker cabs) and anything that needs to read the audio in advance to give it enough time to process it or things like through-zero flangers which cycle the effect ahead of the now-time as well as behind it, if that makes sense.
 
The usual work-round is to use a different plugin as a stand-in while tracking then switch that for the latency producing one at the mixing/mastering stage. Someties plugins come with a version intended for live/tracking use which can then be switched for the "normal version" once the audio is recorded (Waves REEL ADT is one example).
post edited by tlw - 2015/04/10 15:53:46

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robert_e_bone
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/10 19:41:01 (permalink)
Lots and lots of folks find out the hard way that some plugins can really do a number on the latency during recording.
 
I certainly found that out before, as well, and it takes time and sometimes trial and error, to ferret out which plugins are not meant for use during tracking/recording.
 
Some web sites have published latency values for their various plugins, or it can be in the documentation that comes with a downloaded plugin.  Look ahead processing is a term that indicates that some latency will be required for a given effect to do its thing.  Other times, if the plugin doc/ad indicates it is a Mixing or Mastering plugin, it might be a clue that it will add latency.  Convoluted reverb plugins can add latency, as well.
 
(edited to add) If not sure about a plugin's contribution to latency, sometimes I will do a quick search on the web, using the plugin name and the word latency.  If that plugin does add a bunch of latency, there is a really good chance that someone has posted about it somewhere, and you can usually get a feel for that just from the snippets of content shown on the search results pages.
 
Bob Bone
post edited by robert_e_bone - 2015/04/10 19:48:27

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#12
RCT
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Re: problem with x2----I'm using steinberg ur22 and two different keyboard controllers 2015/04/11 16:29:22 (permalink)
Thanks again Bob
 
Its wonderful that you are so willing to help!!
#13
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