problems with sysex

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opie1
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2017/08/02 00:30:52 (permalink)

problems with sysex

I had no trouble importing sysex data from an old ensoniq keyboard into Sonar. My problem is now what do I do. My goal is to save the sounds form the old keyboard, use them on a new controller, and dump the hardware. Can I do this in Sonar or am I barking up the wrong tree. Feel free to assume that I am a bit stupid on this because I am. Just please be gentle 
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    dcumpian
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    Re: problems with sysex 2017/08/02 12:15:14 (permalink)
    The sound data is not accessible via sysex. The audible parts of each patch or multi is stored internally in the hardware synth.  The sysex data only contains patch parameters. If you want to use these sounds going forward, you need to either keep the hardware, sample the synth yourself, or find a VSTi that can replicate the soundset.
     
    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
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    opie1
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    Re: problems with sysex 2017/08/02 13:40:11 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply. When the keyboard guy at Guitar Center told me to use sysex I thought it sounded too good to be true. Or maybe I didn't understand. I tried sampling with a Yamaha sampler years ago and couldn't figure it out so I gave up. I am willing to try sampling again but it appears that hardware samplers have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Without taking too much of your time can you point me in the right direction or recommend a book?
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    Brando
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    Re: problems with sysex 2017/08/02 14:49:54 (permalink)
    http://mildon.me/sfzdesigner

    http://www.soundonsound.c...cakewalk-dimension-pro

    Sorry posted on my phone - might have to copy/paste the first link. I'll try to fix when I get to a PC. The first link is a tool for creating/editing sfz files. The second is an old link to an article in dimension pro as a sampler. Rapture pro etc would work similarly as would other free or bundled programs (Rapture Session).

    Brando
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    msorrels
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    Re: problems with sysex 2017/08/02 14:55:40 (permalink)
    While I'm slightly uncomfortable to mention it, there are applications that can sample a hardware synth.  The one I have is Extreme Sample Converter:
    http://www.extranslator.com/index.php?page=exsc
     
    But it is only 32bit (which isn't that big a deal) and is very old at this point.  I've never used it to sample hardware but that is one of the things it was designed to do.  I have used it to sample soft synths (which it does, but 32bit only).
     
    To sample hardware you hook the hardware to your audio card and your MIDI to the synth and Extreme Sample Converter plays every note (at multiple velocities) and records the sounds.  Then packs that all into one of a several sampler formats.  What you end up with is a sampled version of the synth that can use in a modern instrument.  (It also can read a bunch of old sampler formats and convert them if that's what you have as well)
     
    I'm pretty sure Image Line has a sampler product that does something like it, but I can't think of the name.  And maybe the Chicken Systems translator product can do hardware sampling, I never really looked into it.  Google might be your best friend at finding a solution.
     
    The problem with sampling hardware though is you pretty much have to sample every single patch, which can be a lot of data wrangling.  And what you end up with is kind of "fixed".  To produce something better starts to become real product development work, and there is a reason most sampled libraries are so expensive.  But if you only wanted a handful of patches you should be able to work something out without that much difficulty.
     

    -Matt
     
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    opie1
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    Re: problems with sysex 2017/08/02 21:43:43 (permalink)
    Thank you everyone. I searched on Google so many times that I thought they were going to start charging me. In all of my searching I never came across any of the things that were suggested here. You have given me some good ideas. I still feel a bit lost but I do see some light at the end of the tunnel. Revisiting this has made me ask myself if it is really worth it? Both keyboards are Ensoniq which gives you an idea how old they are. Maybe it's just time to change. Anyway, thanks for all the help.
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    msorrels
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    Re: problems with sysex 2017/08/03 01:43:37 (permalink)
    Depending on what model Ensoniq synth, you might just be able to buy a sample library that will work in Kontakt or sfz.  These guys sell a number of sampled synth libraries:
     
    https://www.digitalsoundfactory.com/ensoniq_products
     
     
     

    -Matt
     
    #7
    dcumpian
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    Re: problems with sysex 2017/08/03 12:17:52 (permalink)
    What Matt said. If you can find a commercial sample library you'll be much happier. Doing it yourself is difficult, especially making the sampled patches sound seamless at the loop points.
     
    On the other hand, there are a ton of VSTi's (virtual instruments) available that can likely give you even better sonic fidelity and much larger sound sets than older hardware. There are many sample libraries for Kontakt that contain samples from old hardware, and there are also VSTi's available that are virtual replicas of old hardware.
     
    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
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