Answeredquestion for bandlab - when's the replacement forum coming? thx

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michael diemer
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/07 18:19:15 (permalink)
Have to agree about the editing thing, I have also lost posts that way. I usually say forget it. Too bad, because every now and then I actually have something meaningful to say, which solves someone's problem. 
 
The other thing is the search feature, as has been noted many times.
 
Why can't these things be fixed? doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do.

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#61
jimfogle
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/07 18:48:00 (permalink)
The issues and deficiencies will be fixed but by replacing the forum software application and building a new forum.  This forum will be archived.

Jim F
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#62
jimfogle
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/07 19:58:42 (permalink)
Look at the bottom of any forum page.  The page footer provides a link to the software developer and details what software application version is in use.  Follow the link and you can find out more about the software application.
 
This forum is using v5.1 while the latest is version is v5.5.  The major difference between the two is the addition of a plug-in that "brings a native mobile app (Tapatalk) experience to forum members".  While there are also additional fixes and enhancements I didn't see anything that improved search capability or any other issue or deficiency frequently mentioned in the forum.
 
The software developer home page features the developer's relationship with Cakewalk in two ways.  Ron Kruper with Cakewalk.com is prominently quoted on the homepage as saying, "We use this software for Cakewalk.com, supporting 70,000 users and 2.5 million of posts.  It has never let us down despite this heavy load and near constant usage."  Further down the homepage the Cakewalk by Roland icon is displayed next to the statement, "Cakewalk, a hardware products creator for modern audio production, supports more than 70,000 customers with peer-to-peer support using our ASP.NET forum software.  With a vibrant community in place, it makes customer support possible without incurring huge overhead."  (The last two bold highlights emulate highlights used on the software developer homepage).  It is interesting to me that the software developer describes the Cakewalk business as a hardware products developer.  My guess is that is the vision Roland had for Cakewalk.   But it really didn't work out that way, did it?  The website homepage also does not acknowledge Cakewalk ownership by Gibson or the intellectual transfer to Bandlab.  Could there be a monetary reason for that lack of communication and transparency?
 
The upgrade from v2 to v5 cost $397 US. If you start with v5 a single use license also costs $397 US.  Both include one year of support and upgrades.  Obviously, someone paid the fee.  After one year the support and maintenance fee is $15.99 US monthly (billed annually).  Wow!  I wonder if anyone has paid that lately?  I'm just thinking out loud that maybe that's why the forum is using v5.1 instead of the (advertised to be) more mobile friendly v5.5.
 
Finally, in my opinion the developer forum or FAQs is not very informative.
 

Jim F
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#63
cparmerlee
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/08 18:03:56 (permalink)
Euthymia
They're only falling out of fashion with some people.

I think the broader question is more about the user base than the forum software.  I certainly appreciate Bandlab's commitment to keeping SONAR alive.  But I have been a little surprised that almost a year later, it still isn't really features in the Bandlab kit.
 
When I go to bandlab.com, I don't find anything anywhere about Cakewalk.  I would have expected at least some framing of the entire "big picture" work flow.  Clearly most of Bandlab is focused on the spontaneous, collaborative creation of music.  Cakewalk is a much better tool for polishing the finished product and preparing for competitive commercial production.  But I don't see any of that anywhere.
 
I don't know quite what to make of that.  Does this mean that Bandlab thinks its users are mostly just kids playing around, and they wouldn't know what to do with a full studio environment?  Or does it mean they think the cloud-based stuff is strong enough that a conventional studio-level tool is simply not needed anymore?
 

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michael diemer
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/08 18:12:13 (permalink)
cparmerlee
Euthymia
They're only falling out of fashion with some people.

 
 
I don't know quite what to make of that.  Does this mean that Bandlab thinks its users are mostly just kids playing around, and they wouldn't know what to do with a full studio environment?  Or does it mean they think the cloud-based stuff is strong enough that a conventional studio-level tool is simply not needed anymore?
 


If that is the case, why did they bother with reviving Cakewalk at all? But you're right, it is a bit mysterious. Maybe they are waiting to see what kind of cross-pollination occurs; then they will adjust things accordingly?

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#65
Johnbee58
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/08 18:36:49 (permalink)
I have a big problem with new users not being able to join the forum.  They give away a DAW for free but deny practical support for it.  Makes no sense to me.  I know it doesn't affect me but I put myself into the position of somebody who downloads this complicated piece of software (and it is complicated) and even though they pay nothing for it what's the point if they can't really learn it?  Yeah, you got the Help files, but like I said before, I learned most of the finer aspects of Sonar by posting to the forum and asking.  It usually gets a very quick response as it is very active. If you're a newcomer to this particular DAW, or even worse, a newcomer to making digital music and digital recording in general you're going to hit a lot of snags. A good support community can help you over those snags. I'm a 4+ year user and I still hit snags.  What is it hurting to not let newbies join?  Even with a new forum coming, why not fix some of the bugs in this one?  Then, they can take their time developing the new site without having current members constantly inquiring about when the new forum will show up.
 
Also, the damned editing problem.  I always copy/paste what I already have to a temporary word processor if I have to make an edit.  I can't remember how many posts I lost and given up on because they disappeared because I had to correct a small error.  It would also be nice to restore the email notifications too.  I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining, especially since Bandlab is giving us this terrific DAW free, but I'd like to at the very least see noobs be able to join.
 
JB

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#66
Anderton
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/08 20:17:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/11/17 00:06:09
michael diemer
cparmerlee
Euthymia
They're only falling out of fashion with some people.

 
I don't know quite what to make of that.  Does this mean that Bandlab thinks its users are mostly just kids playing around, and they wouldn't know what to do with a full studio environment?  Or does it mean they think the cloud-based stuff is strong enough that a conventional studio-level tool is simply not needed anymore?
 

If that is the case, why did they bother with reviving Cakewalk at all? But you're right, it is a bit mysterious. Maybe they are waiting to see what kind of cross-pollination occurs; then they will adjust things accordingly?



I don't have an answer, but I can speculate. The program is already pretty much mature, and is a treasure trove of useful code...and they got Noel. I think this may be a case where BandLab thought they would need what CW offers eventually, but they didn't have the luxury of waiting until they absolutely needed it...so they snapped it up while they could, at was probably a reasonable price. But that's just a guess.
 
I think if using Cakewalk as a profit center was a priority, there would have been an online shop by now for buying optional-at-extra-cost plug-ins. BandLab seems to take a long view. You can see the pieces are being put into place - Heritage guitars, media, audio interface hardware, etc. There's obviously a long-term strategy, and it probably takes priority over putting lots of attention into a single program that already works well.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#67
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/08 20:51:09 (permalink)
One thing I've noticed is that the Cakewalk/Sonar User Group (C/SUG) page on Facebook is getting a LOT more traffic these days, and many of the regulars were, or in some cases still are, active on here as well.
 
For many, especially the younger users, it makes more sense to them to ask question on FB to get answers, even more so if they are newbies and can't register on this forum.

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#68
InstrEd
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/08 20:56:13 (permalink)
I figured it would be a good six months before anything major would happen. So being the April announcement I'm thinking something will drop before Thanksgiving. 
Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive, Think Positive,
 
Anyway enjoy the ride

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#69
jamesg1213
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/08 21:53:00 (permalink)
cparmerlee
 
 
When I go to bandlab.com, I don't find anything anywhere about Cakewalk. 
 




 
Yes. It's been 7 months now. If it was of any importance at all in BandLab's plans, why isn't it mentioned on their website, and why does the old Cakewalk website still exist, and allow you to get as far as 'buy now' before you discover you can't actually buy Sonar any more?
 
Bizarre.
 
 

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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#70
Johnbee58
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/09 04:06:21 (permalink)
I think what it all comes down to is given that in almost 1 year since Cakewalk's BIG announcement and 8 months since Bandlab essentially issued what was formerly known as Sonar Platinum free to all, the free DAW is the only movement we've seen so far with this new company.  Yeah, a completely free DAW as great as Cakewalk by Bandlab is an awesome first step, but some of us are getting a bit nervous and anxious to see what's next.  I have yet to check out Bandlab's site, but I'm a bit curious as to why Cakewalk isn't mentioned on their site after all this time.  I think we would all feel a little better if we were to see some kind of forward movement of any kind with this company beyond what we've seen so far.
 
JB

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#71
MandolinPicker
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/09 04:42:32 (permalink)
While I do get where you are coming from, I would say that I am not fearful of CbB going away anytime soon. There are a couple of reasons.
  • Development of the CbB product (formerly SONAR) has continued, and primarily in the area of bug fixes. The result has been a more solid platform than we saw previously. Even with the bug fixes a few new improvements have still been released. You don't keep working on a product that you intend to drop (remember Gibson stopped all work on SONAR when they decided to drop/sell off/fire sale the product).
  • The product was prominently displayed at AES 2018 (see thread http://forum.cakewalk.com/Cakewalk-at-AES-2018-NY-m3790285.aspx and https://aesny18.mapyourshow.com/7_0/exhibitor/exhibitor-details.cfm?ExhID=3766). Again, you don't advertise a product that you plan to discontinue.
  • BandLab has been acquiring other music technologies. My guess (and only a guess) is they are looking for a start to finish solution, including instruments, mics, interfaces, mobile software and a flagship DAW. Again, just watching what they have done over the past year, it seems that is the route they are taking (even purchasing music magazines). It is the integration that will be difficult, but if the products they are trying to integrate are solid in performance (hence the bug squashing in CbB) it makes the integration easier. I would start looking to  see if there is the start of some integration between CbB and some of their other products in the not too distant future. If that happens (as I believe it will), you will start to see more advertising and a focus not just on BandLab, but all of the other BandLab products, including CbB. But right now, CbB is a stand-alone product, and it doesn't have anything to distinguish it from every other DAW on the market (other than being free). Integration into a full line of music products changes that. That is something no other DAW has.
Again, nothing to base this on other than what I see BandLab doing, and what it appears that they may be doing behind the scenes. Time will ultimately tell. I do wish them well in their endeavour.

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#72
pwalpwal
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/09 11:35:00 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2018/11/17 15:58:28
Johnbee58
I think what it all comes down to is given that ...

... the software has been bought by a billionaire music fan, he doesn't need to make money from it and is buying stuff that fits his own idea of himself
/ymmv

just a sec

#73
msmcleod
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/09 12:18:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/11/17 00:04:20
I suspect BandLab are trying to balance getting feedback for existing bugs, whilst trying to ensure their existing customer base doesn't migrate to another DAW.
 
IMO, CbB is the most stable incarnation of Sonar to date. Having this "closed" (by which I mean no new members) and relatively experienced community report bugs and suggest improvements allows BandLab to focus on getting Cakewalk rock solid, and finally put to rest the buggy reputation Sonar has had on forums elsewhere.
 
By the time a new forum is ready, our accounts are migrated over, the new store is ready etc, Cakewalk can get the exposure it deserves without fear of the odd bug letting it down.
 

Mark McLeod
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#74
Johnbee58
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/09 13:47:31 (permalink)
It's OK to speculate.  Nothing wrong with that.  Many of us have our opinions, but it would be nice to hear something from them.
 
JB

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#75
Wayfarer
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/09 13:52:41 (permalink)
I don't get it. This forum uses UBB code. It appears in every way to just be a UBB forum, which are free to download and use on any site. (I used to have one.) If so, then nobody from BL "built" nor will build anything having to do with the forum. Unless they plan to build their own non-UBB forum from scratch, I don't see how they would have any control over bugs in the code if they aren't writing it.
#76
bapu
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/11 15:52:23 (permalink)
michael diemer
 
Why can't these things be fixed? doesn't seem like it would be that hard to do.


For those of us who complained about the forum issues when they originally occurred (broken "go to last", search function etc.), we know that Cakewalk (the now defunct company) made their own modifications to the forum software (at or before version 5.1) that made the subsequent updates "very hard" to cope with. It was a business decision to not go forward with subsequent update to the forum software until a "later time" which of course never happened.  
 
This was according to Willie at the time.
 
#77
jpetersen
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/13 22:15:32 (permalink)
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#78
michael diemer
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/14 17:36:12 (permalink)
Here's an idea for the new forum: Have it on Ning, where everyone can have their own customized page. You can showcase your music there, publish blogs, upload photos etc. Yes, it costs more than the average forum, but my understanding is the owner of Cakewalk can afford it. The Cakewalk forum would then be unique. Aside from being the best forum of its kind, it would be a place to share our music, network with each other etc. If you have ever been on the Ning Composers forum, it is quite a place (although not quite what it used to be in terms of interesting conversations, due to new leadership which has banished some of the more colorful folks there). Check out some of the home pages there. Everyone has one by default, and you can really make them shine. 
 
http://composersforum.ning.com/

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#79
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/15 22:27:22 (permalink)
Anderton
michael diemer
cparmerlee
Euthymia
They're only falling out of fashion with some people.

 
I don't know quite what to make of that.  Does this mean that Bandlab thinks its users are mostly just kids playing around, and they wouldn't know what to do with a full studio environment?  Or does it mean they think the cloud-based stuff is strong enough that a conventional studio-level tool is simply not needed anymore?
 

If that is the case, why did they bother with reviving Cakewalk at all? But you're right, it is a bit mysterious. Maybe they are waiting to see what kind of cross-pollination occurs; then they will adjust things accordingly?



I don't have an answer, but I can speculate. The program is already pretty much mature, and is a treasure trove of useful code...and they got Noel. I think this may be a case where BandLab thought they would need what CW offers eventually, but they didn't have the luxury of waiting until they absolutely needed it...so they snapped it up while they could, at was probably a reasonable price. But that's just a guess.
 
I think if using Cakewalk as a profit center was a priority, there would have been an online shop by now for buying optional-at-extra-cost plug-ins. BandLab seems to take a long view. You can see the pieces are being put into place - Heritage guitars, media, audio interface hardware, etc. There's obviously a long-term strategy, and it probably takes priority over putting lots of attention into a single program that already works well.


 
I really hope you are right Craig. The optimist in me believes you are. As more time goes by with lessening comunication and no promotion however, the cynic asks whether it could just be a case of someone with abundant financial resources buying shiny things that they may or may not play with later:) 

Bruce.
 
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#80
timboalogo
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/15 23:04:43 (permalink)
You guys are the greatest and I appreciate the positive attitudes, but I feel like I do when my wife and I go into a car dealership - I know I'm going to get ripped off somehow by some smiling guy with acne who has to talk to his manager for the pre-arranged best price.
 
I know it's a bad analogy, but I hoped at least one of you smiled. Maybe you said to yourself, "Timbo is an idiot ..." but I hope you smiled. But I'll never know because I won't get an email saying this thread has been updated.
 
Timbo
#81
mettelus
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/16 15:51:31 (permalink)
timboalogo
 
But I'll never know because I won't get an email saying this thread has been updated.
 



I got a bigger smile from that one But since ignorance is bliss, we all have a state of euphoria that some forums can only hope to attain!

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#82
timboalogo
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/16 22:22:12 (permalink)

#83
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/17 00:50:07 (permalink)
tenfoot
 
a case of someone with abundant financial resources buying shiny things that they may or may not play with later:) 


I've been accused of that many times over the years with regard to my stash of plugs-ins.
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Euthymia
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/18 04:45:16 (permalink)
cparmerlee
I would have expected at least some framing of the entire "big picture" work flow.  Clearly most of Bandlab is focused on the spontaneous, collaborative creation of music.  Cakewalk is a much better tool for polishing the finished product and preparing for competitive commercial production.  But I don't see any of that anywhere.
 
I don't know quite what to make of that.  Does this mean that Bandlab thinks its users are mostly just kids playing around, and they wouldn't know what to do with a full studio environment?  Or does it mean they think the cloud-based stuff is strong enough that a conventional studio-level tool is simply not needed anymore?



Evidence points in the exact opposite direction. If you look at the photos and videos from BandLab's display at AES New York, the system running Cakewalk was front and center and the Cakewalk took up the most display space and the stand-ups that flanked the booth. Also the fact that they bought the Cakewalk IP and immediately started improving it kinda points in the direction that they believe in full-featured DAW's.
 
As a user who would like to try out "this BandLab stuff" and who hadn't tried Cakewalk since the very first edition of SONAR came out, I would say that the one area where their user experience really could use some polishing is in the "how-to" department.
 
I get on BandLab's site and it tells me what I can do, but it's not too clear on why, as in what will each option allow me to do? Why would I want to create a "band" and invite people to join it? Do I record audio on my computer and upload it or do I record live? Can I upload a multitrack project?
 
I know those questions are answered somewhere on there, but it's not as clear as it could be, as in "the process starts with an audio file, either your own or from our library. Next, decide if you want to allow other people to be able to work on the song. Then...."
 
The first steps of integration have already been built into Cakewalk for several months now, sitting quietly in the Export dialog. There's an Export to BandLab option that will upload a mix or individual tracks to your BandLab account.

-Erik
___________
3.4 GHz i7-3770, 8G RAM, Win 7 64-bit
2X PreSonus Firepods, Event 20/20bas, Alesis Monitor Ones, Alesis Point Sevens
Cakewalk by BandLab, Mixcraft Pro Studio 8.5
Warning: if you tell me my issue can be remedied by buying more RAM, an SSD, or a Waves plug-in, I will troll you pitiilessly
#85
tenfoot
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Re: question for bandlab 2018/11/18 17:01:02 (permalink)
bapu
tenfoot
 
a case of someone with abundant financial resources buying shiny things that they may or may not play with later:) 


I've been accused of that many times over the years with regard to my stash of plugs-ins.


Too many plugins Bapu? I see the words but they make no sense. 

Bruce.
 
Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
#86
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