Rikkie
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2012/06/24 10:13:34
- Status: offline
"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
Hi All, Janet added piano and cello parts to my solo guitar piece "Etude no. 2" which was inspired by some old guy from Germany, Johann something ; ) Mix is all my fault. Have a listen if you like : http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11926511 or http://soundcloud.com/rik-frieling/etude-no-2-1 Rik Edit : For some reason I'm having trouble with the midi timing of this, please consider this a work in progress for now. edit 4-10: remix edit 4-10 bis : re-remix edit 4-20 bis/bis : re-re-remix edit 8-10 : final mix, tried my best to incorperate the advice given here ; )
post edited by Rikkie - 2012/10/07 10:21:52
|
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8094
- Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
- Location: Missouri
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 08:05:57
(permalink)
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 08:12:15
(permalink)
The piano has a "music box" quality about it right there in the beginning. I like the second part when the soft strings come in. The down side is..... it sounds a bit busy with guitar and piano playing together.... and the timing is awkward in several places. Piano & guitar are off slightly from each other. This needs more "space" in the music.... it sounds a bit too cluttered at the moment. The more I listen the more I wonder if the piano is the right instrument to use in this...... at least in the way it was used. Not a criticism... just an observation.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2012/10/03 08:13:29
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
Lynn
Max Output Level: -14 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6117
- Joined: 2003/11/12 18:36:16
- Location: Kansas City, MO
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 10:22:40
(permalink)
This is a lovely collaboration between the two of you. It does have a few notes that aren't quite together timing wise, but that should be an easy fix in PRV. Otherwise, this is a good piece to showcase your talents.
|
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8094
- Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
- Location: Missouri
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 11:12:32
(permalink)
Herb, yeah I considered that it might be too busy. I guess it's just grown on me now. I let him have full license to cut anything he wanted. Anyway, we may revisit this. Thanks for the listen! Thank you Lynn. You'd think it WOULD be easy to fix in prv, but it's got me stumped.
|
jayhill
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 578
- Joined: 2005/03/22 21:45:53
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 11:25:00
(permalink)
Yeah - I like this. Of course, I've heard Janet's piano work many times and is always solid. From a production and mix standpoint maybe hearing the instruments defined more from "front to back" rather than from "side to side"? Strings in the far back; piano "phased in" to sit up close but from behind the listener (some M/S channel tweaks) so it is not competing in the same frontal direction as the guitar. Like some others have said, there might be some movements in here that clash, but it's sometimes surprising when getting the mix tweaked with some depth tactics how some of that can disappear. But don't let my production comments above take anything away from the solid musical talents you both display. This is very nicely performed.
|
Rikkie
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2012/06/24 10:13:34
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 12:23:11
(permalink)
Hi All, thanks for listening and comments. For some reason I can't seem to get the midi timing of this right, it's certainly not Janet's playing ! Please consider this a work in progress for now. Rik
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 12:36:38
(permalink)
Hard edits with envelopes. Trade the spot light back and forth.... and when playing together, the parts need to compliment each other..... such as the guitar is doing a lead melody and the piano is accenting with harmony notes to that melody. The main thing I see (my personal opinion only) is that both are playing what would be a spotlighted performance if played solo..... that makes the combination a bit busy. Listen to: Above the Clouds, Season's End & Sept Nights... they are old, but, that's what I'm talking about. Take turns and share the spotlight.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
Rikkie
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2012/06/24 10:13:34
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 12:43:19
(permalink)
Hi Herb , I hear what you're saying and will certainly consider it. This one has been a real technical nightmare for me, midi timing flaky, not able to render midi etc etc. no excuse but it does kill the creativity. Rik
|
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8094
- Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
- Location: Missouri
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 12:58:10
(permalink)
Well, it's my fault really...I did think about playing more simply. Just got carried away. I hear what you're saying, though, Herb. I think I'd have to leave it for a few weeks and come back to it as it's really stuck in my mind now.
|
Rikkie
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2012/06/24 10:13:34
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 13:01:48
(permalink)
I like it, warts 'n all ; ) But what do I know, not midi that's for sure
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 13:38:31
(permalink)
I hear ya both... the easy part is playing the music.... the hard part is play the music with a thought to what the other person might be doing..... and then making the decision as to what should stay and what should go. Especially if the tracks by themselves are "stand alone" quality, which in this case, they both are..... excellent playing.... but to get a produced song that sounds right..... you gotta make the hard decisions. I think that is one of the reasons bands hire producers for their albums, because it is so hard to make those decisions when they are so close to the music. That was actually a pretty high hurdle for me..... being a guitar player.....and we all know guitars rule in the mix...right?
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
markno999
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1450
- Joined: 2007/08/27 18:09:30
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 17:01:15
(permalink)
Rik, Good effort, I am not sure the song is too busy, I think you just need to get the piano and guitar into their own spaces. The piano sound is not great, sounds a little like a toy piano and very small. (Janet- it's not the playing, just the sound. The playing is really good). Assuming that you have the piano part in MIDI format, if you changed the sound to something like Vienna Concert Piano, or something equivalent, it would make a huge difference with nothing else changing. The piece is very good and uplifting/inspiring. I wouldn't change a thing except that piano sound. The strings are really good too. Regards
|
Rikkie
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2012/06/24 10:13:34
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 18:07:51
(permalink)
Hi Mark ,thanks, just put a new mix up, maybe better ? Rik
|
markno999
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1450
- Joined: 2007/08/27 18:09:30
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 18:30:04
(permalink)
Hi Rik, The mix is a bit more balanced but it sounds like a electric piano sound. I hear more of a traditional sounding classical piano. Like the sample below. The thing with some of these piano samples like NI, and many others out there, is that they do an excellent job mimicking a real orchestral hall so you don't have to rely exclusively on panning to get separation and space between the piano and your guitar parts. You get some nice ambience and space on the sides as well. I really like this piece by the way. You and Janet make a great musical team. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIdiTMtkx-M
|
notnat
Max Output Level: -23 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5236
- Joined: 2007/09/25 22:21:43
- Location: Southeast
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 18:31:38
(permalink)
I agree with Mark... I don't think it's too busy... just needs some tweeking, and tightening up... in spite of the timing issues, I think it's lovely...
|
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8094
- Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
- Location: Missouri
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 22:04:16
(permalink)
Herb, I think that's our problem....cause I know piano players rule! :) Thank you, Mark. Thankfully, (for me), Rik's in charge of the mix, so he can deal with the piano sound. :) Glad you like it overall. Thank you, Frank.
|
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8094
- Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
- Location: Missouri
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/03 22:15:02
(permalink)
And thank you, Jay. I appreciate it!
|
Rus W
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 541
- Joined: 2010/11/04 00:09:34
- Location: North Carolina
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 01:23:26
(permalink)
That's Johann Sebastian Bach: (The arpeggio right off the bat) Here's a cello only version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yuR8efotI Btw, great job to you both!! appropriate title as it sounds like sailing across the ocean! Soothing!
post edited by Rus W - 2012/10/04 01:26:58
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
|
Rikkie
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2012/06/24 10:13:34
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 05:43:29
(permalink)
Hi Rus , thanks. Well it was my attempt at a joke. Idea was to play the arpeggio pattern of the Cello suite in the style of the Prelude 1 , all arpeggio's. Btw. new mix available now ; ) Rik
|
cwestmont
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 379
- Joined: 2007/05/25 13:23:00
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 09:52:43
(permalink)
Simply lovely. Nuff said.
My music: Hummingbird Cinema (vocal tracks, covers and remixes) Mosaic Manifesto (remixes and instrumentals) "If you can solve your problem, then what is the need of worrying? If you cannot solve it, then what is the use of worrying?"- Shantideva One can acquire everything in solitude - except character. -- Marie Henri Beyle Windows 7 Intel Core i7-4770 3.4 GHz 8 GigaBytes DRAM Sonar X3 Roland QuadCapture
|
tbosco
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 903
- Joined: 2011/01/06 20:42:22
- Location: Chattanooga, TN
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 10:20:24
(permalink)
Hey Rik, I gotta go with all that Herb told ya on this one. Sometimes "less is more". I think there is a lot of potential in this song for "call and answer" parts, so think about the musical spaces. The parts are beautifully played, by the way. I also agree with markno999's comment about the piano voice....maybe try one a little less electric. A great collaboration. :-)
Cheers! Tony SONAR Platinum JNCS Computer with Asus X99 Motherboard (i7) Win10 Pro 64bit, 32GB RAM Motif XF7, Komplete 11, Ozone 7, Komplete Kontrol 88 keys, Softube Console 1, PreSonus Faderport 8, Focusrite ISA 430 Mk 2 Mic Pre, Yamaha HS8s and Sub Drawmer 3.1 Monitor Controller Fractal Axe FX 2 XL Guitar Processor Lots-o-Guitars
|
Rus W
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 541
- Joined: 2010/11/04 00:09:34
- Location: North Carolina
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 13:56:58
(permalink)
Rikkie Hi Rus , thanks. Well it was my attempt at a joke. Idea was to play the arpeggio pattern of the Cello suite in the style of the Prelude 1 , all arpeggio's. Btw. new mix available now ; ) Rik *rolleyes* :) Seriously, there are a few Johannes, I thought you actually confused them - thus I wrote what I did. And I'm still working on my own arrangement. Some Russian who writes with chalk! (I've posted part of it here.) Good job. I can definitely here the improvements and was that a hint of reverb? Nice!!
post edited by Rus W - 2012/10/04 14:05:09
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
|
Mesh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 27360
- Joined: 2009/11/27 14:08:08
- Location: Online right here!
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 14:54:00
(permalink)
I'm a big fan of classical guitar/piano/strings and this was very pleasing to my ears. Played very well too. (I do however, agree that some parts (few in fact) seem a bit too busy which takes away the guitar as the main instrument). But, overall, the two of you have done a wonderful job and I'd love to hear more collabs like this. The two of you do complement each other really well.
post edited by Mesh - 2012/10/04 14:57:17
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
|
Wookiee
Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
- Total Posts : 13306
- Joined: 2007/01/16 06:19:43
- Location: Akahaocwora - Village Yoh Kay
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 15:04:11
(permalink)
This is very pleasant and comes across quite well. If I could hazard a suggestion or if I was mixing this I would pan differently as follows. Spread the string across the sound stage to create a bed for the piano and guitar but push back in the centre. Then I would place one instrument in its own little sound stage right of centre and the other left of centre with the stage edges touching. (channel tools is the toy) As I sat just a suggestion I mean what would an furry alien know about mix for earth peeps Thanks for sharing
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit Secondary i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8
|
Rikkie
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1128
- Joined: 2012/06/24 10:13:34
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/04 15:06:03
(permalink)
Hi Clark, thanks, glad you like it. Hi Tony, thanks, glad you like this collaboration. Hi Rus, no worries, glad you can here an improvement ; ) Russian eh, most be Monteverdi . Hi Mesh, thanks , glad you, partly, like this collab. Hi John , thanks, I'm still working on this, good advice. Rik
post edited by Rikkie - 2012/10/04 15:10:04
|
Bob Oister
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2766
- Joined: 2008/01/10 00:34:27
- Location: Scranton, Pennsylvania USA
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/05 04:43:15
(permalink)
Hi, Rik and Janet, I missed the first mix, but I have to say I think this new one sounds absolutely beautiful! Very classy playing by two of my favorite instrumentalists. You guys make a really great team. Nice work! Bob
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/05 08:57:35
(permalink)
New mix...sounds better, seems to be heading in the right direction. Be courageous and pull the guitar down and out when Janet's playing. Leaving the guitar in the background really highlights the notes that are not in sync in a few places. I really like the interplay of guitar and piano in the beginning.... at 54 secs I would pull the guitar down and let piano run..... to 1:46 where guitar comes back nicely... right before the transition the out of sync notes are evident. I would look for opportunities in the music where the guitar can solo and where the piano can solo and where they can compliment each other..... record the part again if needed to make it work like you hear it. Clean up the sync issues by recording again or envelope them out. While the song is beautiful and the parts are played well..... proper production takes it to a whole different level of beauty.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
Rus W
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 541
- Joined: 2010/11/04 00:09:34
- Location: North Carolina
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/05 09:04:57
(permalink)
Rikkie Hi Rus, no worries, glad you can here an improvement ; ) Russian eh, most be Monteverdi . Rik No. Guess again! And you're welcome! :)
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
|
Janet
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8094
- Joined: 2010/01/02 19:04:11
- Location: Missouri
- Status: offline
Re:"Etude No.2 "The Transatlantic" " Guitar, piano and cello collaboration with Janet
2012/10/05 09:36:09
(permalink)
Thank you, Bob. Herb, I hear where you're coming from. But to me, this is a guitar solo. I'm just trying to complement what he's done. Yes, I probably overdid it, but if anything, I'dcut out more piano notes before I'd cut out any guitar. Just my opinion, obviously, but I think it can be done well. We'll see. :)
|