"Walked Away", hard rocker with swagger

 
https://app.box.com/s/of7um5xmgk3e8e1qpkhx
 
here is another song that i am trying to study to see how it translates into headphones.
this is a song off of my last album "The Time is Magic"

i'm working on a followup album now, and i'm changing some of methodology of mixing to more suit headphone translation.
 
for the record: i do NOT mix on headphones.
the things i'm more focused on, are phase issues, drum panning and low end translation.
any help or comments on these items are appreciated.
 
 
 
also on soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew/walked-away

Hi Gonzo,
 
Listening on ATH AD300's. Huge low end on this, but sounds a little crowded in the mids, and the high end is slightly lacking, if I was being ultra-critical.
 
Having said that, it reminds me of how ZZ Top's 'Rhythmeen' CD sounds through 'phones, so it's probably fine...
 
Anyway - fantastic track, superb arrangement and playing as always - you never disappoint!

I have that CD and know this song well.  Last night I listened (Sennheiser HD280 Pro) and felt that the low end was a bit weak.  Now, today, I am hearing it differently.  When music and production gets this good I have to bow out of tech critiques.  OK, flipped to the monitors and would say the same thing, beyond my critique abilities.  I wanted to compare the CD to this and I believe I have been maliciously borrowed from.  I have one more place to look.  Isn't it funny how when family believes you are successful then borrowing takes on a new meaning, like BORROWING FOREVER.  LOL, I have all good kids so I'm sure it's here somewhere.  I'll be back to you.  Sorry I'm so talkative today.  

Well, everything sounds very nice to my ears and so no critique needed. You are the one person that knows exactly what you are looking for and if this isn't it, you won't stop until you find it, because that is who you are. You never cease to amaze with your music. I like it !!
 
Peace and Blessings, John

Well listening on the trusty DT100's it sounds OK lacking in bottom end weight, no real surprise there pan, phase etc. all as I would expect on these cans.  Vocal very much the centre of attention.
 
Listened on a set of old Triple tone open backed "Hi Fi" TSH 1500 can's as well, they revealed a little more bottom end but that also muddied up the middle for me.
 
For me though it would have to be quality studio monitors or proper Hi fidelity speakers like my (original) EPOS ES 14's for this sort of music, only way to hear and feel it properly.

warren-
i'll hook you up.
 

the guitar player
thanks for listening, john....
i'm hunting for some knowledge on mixing and mastering in a way i haven't really done before....
so i'm looking for common assumptions from other mixers, just looking for commonalities to base my attempts on....
i'm glad you like my stuff.... but i'm looking to improve.


beagle
mid heavy, check.
it's hard not to be mid heavy when most of the track is mid-heavy guitars!
heheh
i try scooping the guitar tracks at around 750hz, wide gentle scoops, just to make them a little less so, but honestly, that's how my guitars sound.... very bold in the mids, and not scooped like the popular heavy rock and metal seems to like..
i find more interesting info in the mids, than in the lows and highs.
i haven't tried those shure headphones before, i might try them out at performance audio just to see what they are like (that's where i bought my akg240's, they have a whole wall of headphones, including those shures)
 

Sounds good on my phones mdr 7506. Excellent performance and mix, the bottom end actually sounded better in the phones than it did on speakers to me. The mix did sound a little too compressed to me as compared to the last one you posted, but this is not my genre so that may be what you are shooting for. Overall it is great !

HD 380 Pro. Sounds ok here, everything is clear and not panned too much. I'm a bass player so take this with a grain of salt but I would have liked a little more bottom end. I thought the vocals were perfect.

6finger
glad you liked it!
let me know if you get a chance to crank it in phones....
 

teego
i used to have those mdr 7506, i always liked them.
they had clarity, but i always suspected it was a bit hyped....
this one was mastered pretty smooth, but the mix was really upfront,
and to get it that way required a lot of control on every part,
so mostly stuff sounds the same volume, it just comes and goes in the mix...
definitly what i was shooting for with this one.....
not right or wrong, but what was intended.
 

bayoubill
cranked, that is the preferred method!
LOL
thanks for listening....


rebel007
thanks rebel.....
now, i've had a couple of other reviews where guys said there was phase issues with stereo widening, which of course i never use, only hard panning- LCR classic mixing, with a little off center here and there, and here you are saying not much panning!
heheh, i trust your ears, if you hear it balanced, then THAT was what i was trying to do!! :)
more bottom, so, in my monitors, i've got tons of bottom, and in my headphones (AKG240s) i have plenty too....
so there is a difference in certain pro level headphones, in bottom end translation, THAT is what i'm trying to understand.......
thanks for the input!

On my AKG K240df's the mix has a nice bottom with good balance between the drums and bass.  However, the guitar get lost a bit on the edges as opposed to listening on speakers.  The vocals were sitting just right for my taste buds, and I didn't have to strain to hear the words. All in all, this is an outstanding song and recording.

Yeah, wierd.  It could be me but I don't think so.  I'll do them again and see if I was imagining things.  Been known to happen.!

lynn
thanks for the critique...
maybe the hard LCR on guitars this dry,
is too extreme.
maybe if i brought them in a bit, in general, i can still get the separation i want...
but have them not sit where my overheads are.
or vice versa, seems i had both my overheads and the rhythm guitars both hard panned.
that's a good experiment....


warren-
well, in retrospect, it DOES make sense, because the files i sent you were high res mp3's, and the cd is of course straight uncompressed wave!
my duh... 
well, the cd should be a bit brighter, or at least 'less blurred' than the mp3 version.
the bass on this song......
has one of my favorite bass tracks on it.
it swings.
thanks a lot for listening... again.

thanks polarbear.....
for listening and commenting.
 
 
the idea of enough low end for typical home speaker listening..
and have it work well for headphones, is part of the experiment for me....
 
i can say, that even on MOST of my pro releases i own, the translation of low end between my infinitys, krk's and different pairs of headphones is all over the map.
 
eventually, i'll find the right tweaks that translate over everything.
 
 
a good M.E. could probably solve the problem/improve the mix right away for that purpose..
but i'm trying to learn to do it at a mix level.
 

rimshot
thanks man, i appreciate the study on this one...
siberian khatru, been listening to that since it first came out!!
(dating myself here.....) 
i think that more than the high end being shy (see the attached freq response graph) i think the low end is too much...
that said, i think the yes mix is too bright across the entire spectrum, tho it DOES make it super clear.
remember, this yes mix, was mastered for vinyl playback...
and you could not boost the low end like today's modern low end mixes look on graph/sound in playback...
walked away frequency curve

Listened to this a few times over the last week on PC speakers and finally remembered to have my cans handy (4 year old Bose ones, don't know the model number).
 
Firstly - the song is awesome whichever way I listen to it. Mix is fantastic.
 
And secondly, it sounded fantastic to my old ears on cans - everything sounded crystal clear, I was able to focus in on each of the many layers you put in there at will and the overall sound was solid and professional.
 
Cheers,
Terry.