The only holy grail answer is to do it my way:

Spend $12,000 on mediocre instruments and a few decent ones without spending the time to play any one of them very much or learn music theory. Then, when you finally get a guitar so expensive that it scares you to think about having it in your home, decide that it is your main guitar. Because you are afraid to take it out of its case, never play it and thereby, give up guitar altogether.

I love her sense of humor though. If laughing with her is herd mentality, I will gladly pump my furry legs and sail over that cliff.

ORIGINAL: Jessie Sammler

How much time do you want to spend looking for just the right $300 guitar?

I'll back that up. I got lucky here!

Back in 89-90 I was in my first "big" band. We were getting a decent following, playing colleges and the local circuit. I was still playing junk, and decided to drop $350 on a good guitar. I ended up getting an almost one-off Epiphone model. It' s fairly metal looking thing based off a strat. It's a true neck through, has a steinburger trem, pearl white with black bindings. It plays like a dream and sounded great. It was the first guitar I picked up, and at the time I knew nothing of what I bought other than neck throughs were supposed to be better for some reason. I still own it, and play it all the time.

In '95 I bought an epiphone pr6e acoustic for $750, I pitted my local shop against GC...and got what I wanted after about 3 days. I still could care less the differences between the two guitars I was buying or it's name sake. It looked cool, had a pick-up, and could play it unplugged. By '99 or so the bridge was starting to lift a little, and was affecting intonation badly. I started looking for a new acoustic. (BTW, I just sold that PR6E at a garage sale for $35)

I got lucky again. In 2003 I had been searching for the "perfect" acoustic a few years now. Anything under $1K was pretty much out of the question. The only consistantcy I found was in the $2-3K range, and I couldn't afford that at the time because my wife and I were buying a house. So that's 4 or 5 years roughly looking for a guitar in the $1K range and couldn't find a decent one (although electrics are easier). Anyway, one day on my lunch I headed down to the local GC to buy strings. I stopped into the acoustic room to noodle around, and picked up a guitar that was traded in. It was a Martin DM. It had a great tone to it, then I found no intonation problems anywhere on the neck, it was also very dynamic. These were the 3 major qualities I had been looking for, but most guitars I tried only had 2 qualities, and not all three. The price? $350 (ironic, huh?). Sure it's not their best model, but for this one the stars aligned during it's build. It got the right wood, built by the right guy, aged the right way...yada, yadda.

I've got both a MIM Strat ($500) and a Gibson Flying V ($1000) (among others) and I honestly can't tell any difference in the playability between them.

ORIGINAL: wguitarman
I have a personal preference for American made guitars.
...snip

I don't mind this ... but it is an issue ... you go through a list of guitars at Musician's Friend or at your local store, and I doubt that you can tell which guitar is made where ... and some Fenders and Gibsons are made in Mexico where the peso is cheap and american businessmen would rather maintain their profits than actually do something that makes sense! And a beginner ... is going to get bit on this detail every time and caught by a hot shot sales person.

I don't think that most of us know either way ... and in a "world economy" kinda state/place, I'm not sure that this statement really makes that much of a difference.

I would say that the American made guitars are the least creative designs of all ... Fender has not done anything new for 50 years ... and I think they believe they are the stratavarious of the 20th century and don't have to do anything else with their instruments!

Excuse me ... except different versions of sunburst and ... now the true winner ... road worn!

Real talent!

Let me see....

Never buy a guitar that is named after or sculpted to resemble any kind of animal or insect. Especially Bats and Scorpions. Do not buy any instrument with various assundry sharp points all around it. If the guitarist is not dead, potentially dead or hasn't been around longer than you have been living, do not buy his signature edition guitar. If your guitar has been signed by the third replacement guitarist for any classic old school rock band, it is not a collector's item. It will not be worth more than you paid for the guitar. In fact, it may be worth less. If your guitar sports a custom screen printed or computer graphic artwork, it will likely be yours for life so get one that looks cool when hanging around a 65 year old's neck. Or buy a cheap orbital sander, some stain and some clear laquer. You'll need it in five years when you are sick of or embarassed by the way it looks.

ORIGINAL: bdickens

I've got both a MIM Strat ($500) and a Gibson Flying V ($1000) (among others) and I honestly can't tell any difference in the playability between them.

Can you discern any difference in the tone?

ORIGINAL: Mod Bod

Let me see....

Never buy a guitar that is named after or sculpted to resemble any kind of animal or insect. Especially Bats and Scorpions. Do not buy any instrument with various assundry sharp points all around it. If the guitarist is not dead, potentially dead or hasn't been around longer than you have been living, do not buy his signature edition guitar. If your guitar has been signed by the third replacement guitarist for any classic old school rock band, it is not a collector's item. It will not be worth more than you paid for the guitar. In fact, it may be worth less. If your guitar sports a custom screen printed or computer graphic artwork, it will likely be yours for life so get one that looks cool when hanging around a 65 year old's neck. Or buy a cheap orbital sander, some stain and some clear laquer. You'll need it in five years when you are sick of or embarassed by the way it looks.

Hey Dave! Your PM box is full. I just tried to message you regarding advice for Superior 2. Here's the url for the thread. Please message when you get a chance. Thanks!!

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1761239&mpage=1&key=�

I hear ya' Mooch. Dare I say the guitarist fightin' words? Maybe tone and sound isn't all that....

I've had a number of guitars over the years, all of them were cheapo's and I never owned more than one at a time. I only bought one when the old one broke. My wife bought me the best guitar I've ever owned, an Ibanez S-Classic and I love this guitar. I have no desire to play anyone else's really, other than just for gee-wiz curiosity and I have zero interest in purchasing another one for any reason. I've been writing music since I was 12 years old, and the only thing that matters to me is writing songs. Over and over, day after day, year after year. Until I die, I suspect. I've forgotten more than I'll ever record.

But every guitarist I've met obsesses over sound, their guitars, their effects, they talk on and on about all this stuff and I've never seen the same level of production in any of them. None of them really get why I'm not the same way. Despite the sound of that statement, it's not a slam at all, it's a statement about intent.

I think it's because I'm a songwriter first, and guitarist second, or maybe third since I play drums too. Instruments are great, but they are a means to an end. For many really good guitarists, they are the end. Songs serve as a means for them. At least that's what it looks like to me. Totally cool, and I respect that eternally because they will master that craft in a way I'll never achieve. Our intents are just different.

So, my long, drawn out point here is maybe it's important to determine what a fella is trying to achieve first. For a young song writer, they can waste a lot of time chasing the 'guitarist method', per all this advice from all of the guitarists around them - when really, they'd be far more inspired, and get far more benefit from a 300 dollar guitar, 100 dollar amp, and pile of effects pedals. For song writing, there's so much more to play with even though a pure guitarist might scoff at the notion.

Having the ability in knowing what a good guitar to oneself is and knowing what amps fit ones needs are the only way.
That applies to any brand in any price range. 

Without knowledge and experience any purchase made on recommendation by any other is a gamble.

The best one can do is know their budget and spend time in a music store searching for the guitar and amp in their price range that delivers maximum satisfaction. A purchase that one is "happy" with.

Having a person to honestly answer ones questions or offer points of interest to consider that one may not be aware of is a plus. One that isn't persuasive and non-biased.

The experience and knowledge is comprised of many things based on desired use of the equipment and level /experience of the musician.

To choose equipment for an 8yr beginner is very different than equipment for a seasoned picker or for one's self. Careful who makes the call.

A Gibson Black Beauty with a Marshall stack would be a very bad purchase for a little kid that may deside next week to be a drummer.

Quality and price are relative. Both should be a consideration made for the player. Perferably by the player but that is not always the condition.

Of course none of this applies for investment purchases. Best that if that equipment isn't used anyway.

Always beware of somebody trying to tell you what you need to be doing, or buying. Take time to figure out for yourself what is good for you. What you like the feel and sound of. What you think is worth the money you worked for.

Learn why other players use the equipment they use. Learn the situations they use the equipment in. Never buy equipment because "Joe" uses it. But  because you know why "Joe" uses it and you agree.
Check the price ranges in the different models and learn why they're priced differently. Is it because of where they were made? The material of construction was change? The finishing materials, the fret board, the frets, the tuners.....etc.

There is a learning curve to be an informed consumer. There is a market for the "dummy for guitar player". The choice is yours. (and mine)

Best advice for a budding new guitar player is to tell them to forget the guitar and take up piano.

ron

well, i don't know if this is wisdom, or not...

but anytime you try to turn a guy around, that's into hot pickups and overly saturated amp sounds, pointing him to a FENDER TWIN, is probably not a good idea!!!

  

he'd probably be happier with a marshall-style sound and hotter PAF style pickups....

always remember, telling someone to only buy american made gibsons and fenders, flys in the face of some of the most classic music ever made.

also remember, van halen made a fortune, and guaranteed himself a place in rock and roll history, by building a total piece of crap guitar from less than stellar parts.


so, the real genius in music making, and being a good musician, is not tied to the quality and price of the instrument you play.


now, as far as making recommendations about buying gear:

there are much better instruments out there, than fenders and gibsons.

i once owned an Ibanez Artist, that won out against no less than 25 Gibson Les Pauls of various model and vintage, i tried out before deciding the Artist simply creamed them all.

i bought a Carvin, because i found that the quality was much higher than anything i was pulling off the walls in the music stores.
i built my own version of a fender strat, because i have NEVER found a fender strat off the walls, that i'd really want to play all the time, and made the sounds i wanted.



now, i totally agree with you on the issue of quality....
it's always best to do your homework first, figure out the best bang for the buck to get what you want, and plan for that.

but i've seen amazing musicians making incredible music on absolute piece of **** guitars and basses, so based on my experience, you have to weigh the talent and intention, against the cash.

Hi,

I still wish that I had had a few more lessons or spent time with someone that knew music and played a little more/better ... I think I would have learnt to play an instrument way faster and better ... but maybe I got bored ... which I tend to do when the rehearsal process is not moving forward and improving ... which happens way too much ... and tends to hurt a performance and its subtleties.

I've seen way good players pick up a 10 cent instrument and sound good ... and I've seen nobody's with 10k equipment also sound good and trying to look better ... (and not making it!) ...

In the end, it is all about the person and how they relate to the music itself ... if you care and love it ... more than likely a ****ty piece of rig is not gonna matter ...

It's weird ... the majority of people out there had grab-bag stuff when they became big ... and it sounded fine ... now we sit here and postulate they have to have better stuff ... and it's not always true ...

The biggest issue is someone wanting to sell at a music store and not helping you stay at your level until you can get better ... I doubt it will help me get better if I spend the $1200 dollars I want for that Fender or the Mexican version that is $500 dollars less ... (one is short scale and the other is long scale as well) ... but it might get me a bit more dedicated and inspired to do better ... and sound better ... which is not a crime!

I suppose that someone at the music store could have sat down with me and watched for 5 minutes and then say ... I think you should get this ... get comfortable with it ... and when you feel good with it ... you come here and then pick up one of these ... so that you have the chance to learn and improve as you go along ... rather than get intimidated by something you can't find or achieve.

The EB-0 that I had (with the pegs the other way) sounded great and felt really good, and even my Standard Fender Jazz did not feel as good or sound as warm ... by comparison, the Fender sounded "clinical" ... and I am not exactly a clinical player ... but in comparison to the inexpensive bass I got now (EB-3) ... it was much better and the small neck was easier on my hands. The EB-3 is not that good ... in fact, it's a really poor excuse for the EB series of bass ... but it's enough for me to get more comfy with things ... and I'm not looking to spend money I don't have until I feel like I can "graduate" from this instrument ... so that it will make sense to get into something better.

It's something that no one in a music store has ever done with me ... or that I have ever seen ... but the kid that tried to teach me Abelton Live (what a joke that was) was more impressed with my ability to create sounds and play on my Jupiter 8 software ... than anything else ... even if it was simple ... what I was doing was neat ... and all I was looking for was to save it so I could come back to it and then record over it if I needed to ... or even change it some ... but I did not get that help at all ... and this got me frustrated to the umpteenth degree ... and it's the same thing with the bass for me ... in a couple of lessons from a local musician (Michael McCabe) it's kinda fun ... I learn it well and before you know it I'm coloring it with small details where things change ... for some reasons, I can transition really well ... and this is something that rock music is specially bad at ... they have not heard enough classical music to get better ideas on how to do "changes" ... and most rock music does chord changes at will with so much disregard for anything else and its continuity and often some of this crap is called "progressive" ... and it is not ...

In the end, it's about the smoothness and the beauty of it all ... and I seriously doubt that an instrument makes that much of a difference ... I can give Ian Anderson a handmade flute pipe ... and I'm sure he can still entertain you and I and the Coffee House gang with all kinds of stories and poetry with it ...

And yes, Jessie ... I like the extravagance ... but at my age, I simply want to clear that last credit card and cut off the umbilical chord to the world ... weather I take a trip around the world or go into music full time, or film full time ... that is the only suspence right now ... the rest ... I don't care any more ...
 
One last thing ... funny one ... a psychic friend of mine used to say ... that when you pay more you tend to be more sensitive and caring about the information and the work you do with it ... so maybe there is a narcissistic streak in all of us that goes with the expenditure ... more is better! .. yeah baby ... greed is good!  The same thing as the bigger the ____, or the bigger the _______, the better the sex will be ... or that person is not as good looking as the foldout ... and the bad part is ... it distorts the reality so far out of scope ... that you lose yourself in the process ... sometimes they call it "youth" ... but in reality this also happens with the adults ... who many times are not good examples and not aesthetic enough to help the kids!

Well, it's always been a funny thing to me. The concept of power and wattage and the sense that overdriving an amp is more power. Bouncing off the walls and staying clear of the building reflections is a fun game of sorts. I used to enjoy it. It kept the bugs away. But if you haven't gone deaf from your youthful concepts of sonic power eventually you'll find that it can all be done with very little amounts. Tone is both in the player and the equipment. You can't get good tone from a cheese slicer. I used to laugh at the dazed look on the faces of some of the bands I used to know who would "POWER IT UP" in a rehearsal space. You have to have a flexible concept of sound force and power.

MakeShift

1.) A $300 guitar with a proper setup, a $100 PUP upgrade, in the right hands, and through the right amp will sound just as good as a $1500 guitar in the same hands and through the same amp. You can get a very well-built guitar these days for $500-$700.

I did just this with an Epiphone LP when I believed the same thing.  I put a classic 57 in the neck and a classic 57 plus in the bridge and it sounded tons better.  I thought it was as good as a real Les Paul.  That is, until a couple years later, when I bought a real Gibson Les Paul Premium Plus.  No comparison, the USA Gibson plays smoother, faster and tone is far better.....in the same hands and on the same amp.  

Maybe I was exaggerating a wee bit... there are limitations in build quality and such, and you can't turn a $300 guitar into a $1500 guitar, but you can rip out the crap electronics, maybe add some shielding, and a bridge and turn an otherwise cheap guitar into a pretty good guitar for not a lot of dough... The main thing in my mind with the cheapos is the quality of the body, neck, and tuners. I have one of these Squire jobbies that I bought new for < $300:
 

 
Made in India. It has a lot of resonance, straight neck, doesn't go out of tune, no dead notes, etc. The electronics are junk, and the bridge wouldn't be mistaken for a high end model, but we're talking < $300 here. The main factor in buying the stuff is actually playing it, looking down the neck, etc. There are many more crappy $300 guitars than not, that's for sure.
 
I think my main point is: if Clapton played a hot rodded $300 guitar through a nice amp, I don't think you'd be asking "is he playing a souped up $300 guitar placed through a nice amp?"...