micv
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 285
- Joined: 2004/10/29 15:47:03
- Status: offline
recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
I'm looking for a keyboard or workstation that can be used to compose and work out idea and then able to export midi to Sonar for processing. I havn't looked at keyboard for years so I'm clueless. I'm not a keyboard player, just use Sonar for recording, and I'm collaborating w/ a pianist and we need to be able to pass file back since we don't live in the same area.
thanks for any advise.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/23 17:25:57
(permalink)
Ah let me think about this, ah yes, Roland. I can't think why that popped into my head.
|
Houndawg
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
- Total Posts : 759
- Joined: 2006/10/26 18:08:33
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/23 17:25:58
(permalink)
The currently available Fantom-X series from Roland is an outstanding workstation (with an incredible built-in piano sample), and if I recall correctly a nice consumer rebate is also still in effect. I also just checked out the next generation of Fantoms at the NAMM show, the Fantom-G series (bigger LCD screen, tons of new features including 24 audio tracks...) but it won't be available until April.
houn DAWg LynxTWO-B/UAD-2 DUO/UAD-1
DynaudioBM5A/AlphaTrack/RD-700GX/PCR-800
ASUS P5K-E/Q6600@3.0GHz/4GB
2-WD Raptors(74/150),2-320GB(BFD2/VSTi)
2-XFX PCIe/4-17"LCD
AntecP182/NoctuaNH-C12P/CorsairTX650
Sonar8.3.1/XP/Vista32
|
micv
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 285
- Joined: 2004/10/29 15:47:03
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/23 21:20:23
(permalink)
thanks for the replies,
how does file get from the Workstation to Sonar? Isn't each WS has its own proprietary format? Do they have USB connector so the computer see its as a harddrive?
|
pranaearth
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2006/09/09 14:56:56
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/23 21:32:46
(permalink)
Intel Smithfield Dual Core, 2GM Memory, WinXPSP2; Sonar 7 Producer; 01X; Alpha Track; Trigger Finger; Oxygen 8.
|
cmorgan8
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 249
- Joined: 2007/11/05 20:20:47
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/23 22:13:28
(permalink)
|
cmorgan8
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 249
- Joined: 2007/11/05 20:20:47
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/23 22:14:41
(permalink)
|
Unreal39
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 32
- Joined: 2008/01/20 23:58:40
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 01:22:49
(permalink)
Dude, that IS nice! How do you people afford these things? 
|
papa2004
Max Output Level: -10.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6475
- Joined: 2005/03/23 12:40:47
- Location: Southeastern U.S.
- Status: offline
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 05:27:28
(permalink)
The Roland Fantom-G, when released within the next 3 or 4 months (hopefully) will be the workstation with the most advanced features. The other consideration is sound, but it sounds like you are more concerned with features and recording capability. If so, check the specs on the Fantom-G versus the Motif XS and Korg M-3. I think you'll be impressed with the Fantom-G. Here's a link to the main Fantom discussion forum www.fantomized.info
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
dstrenz
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1067
- Joined: 2005/12/10 09:59:06
- Location: Rochester, NY
- Status: offline
|
kelsoz
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 235
- Joined: 2007/06/16 19:09:06
- Location: Pennsylvania
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 08:29:03
(permalink)
Hi micv
I have a Roland Fantom X8 and love it - But - IMO - when it comes to working out ideas, trying different approaches, and so much more, hardware sequencers like that in the Fantom (et. al) don't hold a candle to software sequencers like Sonar. With the Fantom, it's lots of button pushing and eye strain to to one thing - Cantankerous. With sonar you can see lots of things at once and paint lots of changes at once, across multiple tracks, and undo a zillion times with with a quick ctrl-z - Bliss. But I still recomented the Fantom.
To those of you familair with both, do you aggree, or am I missing something?
|
wrkactjob
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 159
- Joined: 2007/04/12 13:34:38
- Location: Long Beach, CA
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 10:01:42
(permalink)
Agree completely re ease of use. My K2000 sequencer was too tiny, too fiddly, too hard to read.
|
micv
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 285
- Joined: 2004/10/29 15:47:03
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 11:04:47
(permalink)
you guys are great. Thanks.
I did some research and the Fantom, modtif, triton are all great. But I think that they would be overkill for what I'm doing.
I gave up the flagship hardware WS years ago and went with software base. There is no question that non of the WS can come close to Sonar.
I'm looking for something so that ideas and arranments can be recorded quickly. Then use that SMF file in Sonar as starting point. The final tone or samples would be from plug-ins to Sonar. So the samples quality and quantity from the hardware is not that important. Full blown sequencer, mixer, editing, record to cd features are also not important. This is for a non-tech pianist so all those buttons and sub menus of the WS really intimidated her, ... and me too.
Is there a water down verion of these full-blown WS? and hopefully cost less too.
|
kelsoz
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 235
- Joined: 2007/06/16 19:09:06
- Location: Pennsylvania
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 11:54:09
(permalink)
If I'm reading you right, I suggest you use Sonar MIDIed to a keyboard (not full blown ws) and do you creating right in Sonar and play it back thru your keyboard (or whatever). No need to create in a ws and then transfer to Sonar. Regards.
|
micv
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 285
- Joined: 2004/10/29 15:47:03
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 12:11:00
(permalink)
kelsoz,
We would use my sonar setup but we don't live in the same state. So I'm trying to figure out how she can record her performance either fully arranged or roughly arranged and then I can work from that.
|
whattarush
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 713
- Joined: 2004/04/03 09:48:08
- Location: The ATL
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 15:13:01
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: micv
I'm looking for a keyboard or workstation that can be used to compose and work out idea and then able to export midi to Sonar for processing. I havn't looked at keyboard for years so I'm clueless. I'm not a keyboard player, just use Sonar for recording, and I'm collaborating w/ a pianist and we need to be able to pass file back since we don't live in the same area.
thanks for any advise.
A. Korg Triton (Studio or Extreme) B. Roland Fantom X8 C. Yamaha Motif EX8 D. All of the Above
|
bmdaustin
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1114
- Joined: 2004/01/11 21:56:51
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 16:08:56
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: micv
kelsoz,
We would use my sonar setup but we don't live in the same state. So I'm trying to figure out how she can record her performance either fully arranged or roughly arranged and then I can work from that.
Send .mid files and/or wav or mp3's back and forth? Use notation (Sibelius or Finale) files?
|
space_cowboy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9813
- Joined: 2007/07/20 14:49:31
- Location: Front and center behind these monitors
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 17:16:09
(permalink)
Most of us are hitmen, dealers and numbers runners. Personally, I was able to afford a lot more stuff when my wife got rid of me. ORIGINAL: Unreal39
Dude, that IS nice! How do you people afford these things?
Some people call me Maurice SPLAT Pro lifetime, ADK 6 core 3.6Ghz with 32 GB RAM, SSD 1TB system drive, 3 3TB regular drives for samples, recordings and misc. Behringer X Touch, UAD Apollo Quad. 2 UAD2 Quads PCI (i think - inside the box whatever that is), Console 1. More guitars (40??) and synths (hard and soft) than talent. Zendrum!!!
|
magic8ball
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2008/01/21 00:10:01
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 18:42:40
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: micv
I'm looking for a keyboard or workstation that can be used to compose and work out idea and then able to export midi to Sonar for processing. I havn't looked at keyboard for years so I'm clueless. I'm not a keyboard player, just use Sonar for recording, and I'm collaborating w/ a pianist and we need to be able to pass file back since we don't live in the same area.
thanks for any advise.
I just went through the process of buying a workstation. I wound up with the Yamaha Motif XS. It was far and away the best sounding to me.
post edited by magic8ball - 2008/01/25 18:59:08
|
Silver Dragon Sound
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 142
- Joined: 2005/09/11 02:56:34
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 19:05:28
(permalink)
DO NOT make the mistake of purchasing a keyboard off of demos on a website. Many of them are doctored to make the keyboard sound better. Don't let a salesperson push their own agenda on you either. I'm very familiar with the workstations out there. Sound is subjective to each person. I personally found the sound on the Roland Fantom X very flat and thin and I could really tell in recordings. Most of my clients seem to like the Yamaha sound for acoustic instruments, the Korg sound for pads and the Kurzweil and Yamaha sounds for orchestration. IMO right now you have to break down what your looking for in terms sounds. Do you want acoustic sounds, dance sounds, orchestra sounds, strings and pad sound ect. Different manufacturers are going to do a better job with certain sounds. Right now you should listen to the Yamaha Motif XS. Its a real powerhouse and sounds awesome. In terms of sound, its one of the most complete workstations I've heard. The other thing you may want to look at are softsynths. There are some amazing sounding softsynths but this is going in a whole different direction. I use a combination of both and that works great for me.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/25 20:34:50
(permalink)
Are you sure you really need a workstation/arranger? That's a lot of money to spend if you're not a keyboard player. Why not just a good MIDI controller + soft synths + SONAR? You could do everything you want to do, and not have to deal with transferring files from the workstation to your computer.
A nice MIDI controller will cost you less than $500. A good soft synth or sampler will cost about the same. Now you're in it for about a grand, a fraction of the price of a Fantom or a Motif.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
vicsant
Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1378
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:44:33
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 00:31:19
(permalink)
A nice MIDI controller will cost you less than $500. A good soft synth or sampler will cost about the same. Now you're in it for about a grand, a fraction of the price of a Fantom or a Motif. And with a laptop, you can write practically anywhere. I know this has been debated to death before, but why would anyone buy a WS nowadays? Get a midi keyboard/controller, Sonar 7, a bread and butter softsynth (Kontakt, Sampletank, etc.), a dual core laptop with lots of RAM, a basic (2 i/o) usb or firewire midi/audio interface..... and you'll have much more music-power than any current WS can give you, at a fraction of the cost of a WS.
|
vicsant
Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1378
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:44:33
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 00:43:18
(permalink)
And I will not even think of going back to the days of sequencing on something like the Roland MC50MKII, or even with the new WSs that have touch view LCDs.
I'm really surprised that Roland, Yamaha, and Korg still insist on making refurbished workstations when the trend now is going towards DAWs and software music applications.
When the Korg Oasys first came out last year, the 88-key model was priced at around USD8K. Now I know Jordan Rudess, and Herbie Hancock are using these instruments, but I'm sure they got some substantial discounts from Korg to use and "advertise" the Oasys. (Maybe these instruments were given to them). It would be interesting to know just how many of these beasts Korg was able to sell.
|
boseyman1
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 487
- Joined: 2004/10/15 10:18:45
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 02:01:03
(permalink)
Intel Core i7 3.07Ghz, 12 Gigs RAM, 64 bit OS, Sonar Producer 8.52, RME Multiface II and PCIe interface, Maschine, Fractal Axe-FX, Sonic Implants Library, TC Fireworx, Voiceworks, BFD2, SD2, Stylus RMX, Trillian.
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 07:03:34
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: dstrenz
They don't lose all of their resale value so it's not like you're throwing all that money out the window. After spending $2000 on one, you might be able to sell it for about $1500 next year.
Having bought and sold a good deal of hardware over the years I would have to disagree with this estimate. Figure more practically around 50% of what you paid for it - not what it retails or MAPs for. In other words the Fantom-G 61 MAPs for around $2600, but let's say you talk them into $2400. Then that's what you paid for it. Expect to get $1200 when you sell it. Many people claim to do better, but that's been my experience. Used equipment buyers are by and large a very savvy bunch and will lead you right up to the drool of thinking you have the piece sold only to lowball you a couple of hundred (or more). Had it happen many times. Always took the deal! Of course if you turn around and sell right away, while the piece is still hot - like within the first year, maybe figure more like 33% less than what you paid for it. But why would you want to do that? In either case, selling a piece of hardware is a losing proposition. Make sure you buy the right thing at the right price from the get go. Now, the other sentiment in this thread is how superior in both features and value is software to hardware. That's understandable. This is a software-based forum. Cakewalk makes software, not hardware workstations. Go over to the MPC forums www.mpc-forums.com and you'll hear a completely different sentiment. Same with the Motif, Korg, and Fantom forums www.motifator.com/forums www.korgforums.com www.fantomized.info Most people who use both agree - they each have their strengths and weaknesses, and given the appropriate budget, many productive people use a combination of both. That's why Akai, Roland, Yamaha, and Korg are still in business. There is still a significant market and demand for the reliability and ease-of-use that hardware offers.
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
jimack
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1814
- Joined: 2005/04/22 07:58:32
- Location: Where the sun shines through the pouring rain...
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 07:21:33
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: vicsant
And I will not even think of going back to the days of sequencing on something like the Roland MC50MKII, or even with the new WSs that have touch view LCDs.
I'm really surprised that Roland, Yamaha, and Korg still insist on making refurbished workstations when the trend now is going towards DAWs and software music applications.
When the Korg Oasys first came out last year, the 88-key model was priced at around USD8K. Now I know Jordan Rudess, and Herbie Hancock are using these instruments, but I'm sure they got some substantial discounts from Korg to use and "advertise" the Oasys. (Maybe these instruments were given to them). It would be interesting to know just how many of these beasts Korg was able to sell.
Me too. I believe this is why Roland is so interested in Cakewalk.
-- Jim _____________________ Sonar 7 PE, P5 v2.5, 3.4Ghz P4, 2GB RAM, MAudio 2496PCI, Event TR6, PodXT, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-C3, MAudio Axiom 61, Gibson Les Paul Custom, Gretsch 5296, Fender Strat, Larrivee D03R, Martin D12-28, Martin D16-R, etc
|
GuyPicks
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 389
- Joined: 2005/11/16 16:55:30
- Location: Akron, Ohio
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 07:26:37
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: micv
I'm looking for a keyboard or workstation that can be used to compose and work out idea and then able to export midi to Sonar for processing. I havn't looked at keyboard for years so I'm clueless. I'm not a keyboard player, just use Sonar for recording, and I'm collaborating w/ a pianist and we need to be able to pass file back since we don't live in the same area.
thanks for any advise.
I use a Korg Triton, Yamaha PSR500, Ensoniq ASR10, Band-in-a-Box. I've found if you arrange Multi-Tracks in midi and try to dump Midi info from the keyboard to Sonar Via Midi cable, I've not had much success. If you have a floppy drive, save the midi file to disk and import the Midi file to Sonar and Sonar will make the tracks for you. You'll just have to load the sounds (synth's) into the tracks. I love my Triton but if I do 16 tracks of Midi, I have to save the midi file to disk in order to get all the tracks to Sonar. If there is a way to do this via Midi cable, I sure would like to know how. It would make my job easier. Guy
ADK Pro Audio RackMounted Computer Sonar X3d Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2x 24" Dell Dual Display Windows 7 Ultimate (x64) 12GB Ram 4x HDs Edirol PCR-800
|
jimack
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1814
- Joined: 2005/04/22 07:58:32
- Location: Where the sun shines through the pouring rain...
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 07:26:50
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bitflipper
Are you sure you really need a workstation/arranger? That's a lot of money to spend if you're not a keyboard player. Why not just a good MIDI controller + soft synths + SONAR? You could do everything you want to do, and not have to deal with transferring files from the workstation to your computer.
A nice MIDI controller will cost you less than $500. A good soft synth or sampler will cost about the same. Now you're in it for about a grand, a fraction of the price of a Fantom or a Motif. Exactly right. I bought a Yamaha S90 a few years ago. It has great sounds right from the Motif series. I rarely use it with my DAW, except for Piano parts. But even then, I don't use it for the sound, I use it for the action. The main reason I bought it was so my kids could have access to a somewhat "real" piano. And the action on it is superb, so it fills that bill quite nicely. I NEVER use the workstation features on it though. Save yourself some money and take bitflipper's advice.  Edit -->> The only exception I could see to this is if you do a lot of Live Performing. In that case, a workstation might make your life easier.
post edited by jimack - 2008/01/26 07:44:39
-- Jim _____________________ Sonar 7 PE, P5 v2.5, 3.4Ghz P4, 2GB RAM, MAudio 2496PCI, Event TR6, PodXT, Yamaha S90, Hammond XK-C3, MAudio Axiom 61, Gibson Les Paul Custom, Gretsch 5296, Fender Strat, Larrivee D03R, Martin D12-28, Martin D16-R, etc
|
jgaryt
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 23
- Joined: 2008/01/18 16:11:47
- Status: offline
RE: recommendation for a keyboard/workstation
2008/01/26 09:16:52
(permalink)
For a long time, I just used a Yamaha PSR640 to knock out ideas. It's just a GM/XG 61 key, but it had built in speakers, and a decent sequencer. I could take it anywhere and work without needing much else, so for me it was a great scratch pad I could write tracks on to transfer to my DAW. And as for the resale value of keyboards and such, it's all speculation. Supply and demand.
jgaryt soon to be ex Cubase 4.1 user Vista, Q6600 Quad, 3GB UR-80, JamStix2, M-Audio Prokeys 88, MTP/av Oberheim Matrix6R, Roland JX8P, Korg MonoPoly Yamaha RY30, Ensoniq Mirage, Shure KSM32 4Front TruePianos, Kramer Bass, Fender Guitar
|