recording bass guitar direct..what else can you do to it?

ok...bass guitar for rock songs....schecter studio 5 plugged into a fireface 400.

to me, bass is bass. one of the least understood parts of recording to me.

i use plugins like compression for the peaks and an eq to fit it in the mix.  but...

what else can you do to the bass track? what are the options? can anyone point me to a good article or thread? thx

It really depends on the song. A few things I have done to bass tracks while mixing come to mind.... Use an 1176 like processor with fast attack to distort the bass (nicely) adding upper harmonics (warms the track and makes it a bit more translatable to small speakers)..... Mixed it on the same bus as the kick drum sharing a compressor..... Used a hint of triggered wah to give some motion to the longer notes in a ballad (mixed very low behind the bass)..... Slide the track back in time a few milliseconds to give the kick some room and relax the groove..... Compressed (actually ducked) the bass track with the kick to give more room to the kick via sidechain compression ..... Transient shaper (or compressor) to modify the attack or shorten the notes a bit when they are taking up too much space in the mix....
I'm sure there are other methods I'm not thinking of, but these are a few tweaks I've done in the past. For me early in the mix I have to decide who wins: the bass or the kick, and make decisions accordingly. I've also used a speaker through a direct box as a microphone on a bass amp.

7-string_guy


ok...bass guitar for rock songs....schecter studio 5 plugged into a fireface 400.

to me, bass is bass. one of the least understood parts of recording to me.

i use plugins like compression for the peaks and an eq to fit it in the mix.  but...

what else can you do to the bass track? what are the options? can anyone point me to a good article or thread? thx

Unfortunately, "bass is bass" is why most everyone that thinks that way messes up their recordings when they try to record a bass line. LOL!! It's probably the most problematic area in recording, 7sGuy. You need the right monitors in your room for starters as too much low end from a bass will just kill your mix with lows if you can't hear it right. Another thing is to have a decent front end for a bass. Meaning, some sort of pre-amp and a really good compressor. I record bass 4 different ways here...depending on the situation and sometimes use all of them or some of them at once.
 
1. Right into the console: I take it right in the board, or into a pre-amp with a compressor in line and this sounds really clean and pristine. But, super clean bass doesn't always work for a tune so you need other options. But with this method, I like to run the bass in one of my channels with a Drawmer tube compressor and a Manley or even a Joe Meek pre. They work great on bass.
 
2. Direct box: If you're going to go right into your fireface, grab a direct box so you have a nice signal going in that you won't have to mess with as much as you may be doing now, without one. I like to always record a direct bass so I have a safety net to send it to an amp, sim or even a bass pre-amp.
 
3. PODS: The bass pods in my opinion, are fantastic bass pre-amps. The little black kidney bean POD does a great job and I've used one here for years. It's made for bass and really adds a nice touch if you set it up right. The POD racks are even cooler and I have one of those here as well.
 
4. Mic'n a bass amp: I try to stay away from this unless the guy playing really has a nice amp that compliments his style. Most bass rigs mic'd just sound bad to me unless the player and amp are pristine. So when I come across this, I'll mic up the amp and run a direct signal as well just to enhance it with a few other goodies. To me, unless I'm recording a garageband type bass guitar, that's exactly what you're going to get with a bass amp unless someone really comes in with a killer bass rig, nice bass and the person knows how to make love to the thing. Other than that, I much prefer going into options 1,2 and 3 individually...or some all at once.
 
Keep in mind, and this is extremely important. You can have the best rig and front end known to man...if you play bass like a beginner, it's going to sound...well...like a beginner. The next thing is your bass. I can't stress how important it is to have a really decent bass that is set up properly. It's not like a guitar where you can have a crappy set up or crappy guitar and bury it with distortion. Basses are very unforgiving based on the bass and how the player executes on it. If you have strings higher and lower than others, those strings will sound louder or lower depending on how hard you pull. Then you have notes lashing out all over the place and others barely audible. So be careful with that.
 
And most importantly, always track with new strings. That's probably the most important piece of advice I can share with you. There is nothing worse than the sound of dead bass strings unless you are purposely going for that old, dead, 60's type sound. You will have such a problem getting a good tone to work in your mix with dead strings...it's not even worth trying to record. Trust me when I tell you. The stuff I have shared here...if you take my advice, will allow you to get a killer bass tone in minutes if you know what you're doing. Without this info, you could be struggling for days, weeks, months trying to get the right tone that fits in your mix. So definitely give this some thought....I promise it will make a world of difference for you in the long run. Best of luck. :)
 
-Danny

Beagle


great post Danny - what about Amplitube, Ampeg, Guitar Rig after recording DI?

Thanks Reece. :) Yep,  Ampeg is what I usually send the DI to. Either that or one of the POD's I have here.

I enjoy recording bass direct.

If I want it to sound finished right out of the box I use this direct box:



If I want it to sound straight forward and ready for more manipulation I use this direct box:



Those preamps are good at capturing sweet sounding low frequencies.




Some of the funk players use every part of their personal signal chain, even their speakers, to get their tone...  so I still mic cabinets when direct doesn't get the whole story.


best regards,
mike

I've played bass in bands and have a Fender Jazz and Carvin bass.
That being said, I use Trilogy for its ease and consistency.
When I open my project template, its all set ready for "R".
I also like to add a bass plugin from Line 6 which I would do also if I used a DI bass.
High pass eq, compression and a little grunge seem to work for rock.
Couple samples...

Track 1   
Track 2  
Track 3  
Track 4

My scheme is usually something like an EH Blackfinger tube compressor pedal into occasionally a distortion pedal with very light distortion, usually a reverb pedal with some light reverb, into either a Solo/610 or Great River DI input then EQ if needed. That will provide a nice tone that doesn't need any more tweaking in the mix as long as I've forseen the needs of the overall song appropriately. If I want it tighter, I'll go through the 1176 on the way in as well for more compression. Sometimes no pedal and I'll use the LA-2A and/or 1176.

But, with all of that, fingers are still the most important thing of all. Listen to what you are playing against, listen for frequency conflicts and optimal tone, and change your picking position or the notes you are playing to get rid of them and to get the right tone for each note. It can be pretty exacting, but it makes all the difference.

It's amazing how much you can change your tone just with your fingers. I will consider which finger to pluck with, angle of my fingers on the string, where to pluck forward or back, whether to pluck 'through' the string to fall onto the next one (more vertical vibration), or to do more of a 'hook' type thing causing a more parallel to the fretboard vibration. All those things are important to tone, and you can almost literally mix yourself as you play.

And, if you don't do that sort of thing, it can seem like no particular setup of the recording chain is correct, because there's always some sort of flabbiness or hollowness or muddiness going on at some point in the song. You can drive yourself crazy trying to find a magical EQ and distortion and compression that will make it right all the way through, when it may be that none of them will, because you are trying to use hardware to solve a composition and playing problem.

As usual Danny has done a great post and it is amazing how similar Danny thinks to the way I do things it can be scary! I agree with Danny on this in that I have recorded bass many times and I am more often than not been happier with the DI sound. Even when I mike the bass cabs by the time you listen back, that track is usually not that great when you listen to it on its own.

But after reading a lot lately about the Beatles and how they did things back then I tend to agree very much with Dave on this. Recording bass cabs up close or in a too small a room is pretty hard. They used to re record a lot of the bass lines in the Beatles after hours with Paul playing into a big room and miking the bass cab much further away. Recently I tried this and I was surprised with the results. Not here at my studio but at the studio where I teach. Only because it is big enough to do it. Another option is to re amp the bass track in this situation as well even without the bass players involvement. Our studio is equipped with a Trace Elliot head feeding into a fairly decent 15" speaker.

You can get quite a large sound and it is good because it won't cancel out very much either with the DI track if you decide to use it. It is a time when the bass track could be used either instead of or with the DI track. You still get more detail in the DI track though especially down at lower volumes of bass playing.

I have been reading the 'Mixing Engineers Handbook' by Bobby Owsinski lately and I must say this is one excellent book and please I apologise if that fact has been mentioned before. There are some fantastic tips  on EQ ing the bass on pages 35, 36 and 37 of this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Mix...=1315689958&sr=8-1

If you are going DI another great hardware box is the REDDI preamp for bass.

Jeff Evans, I too was intrigued by the Abbey Road Article in which they discuss amping Paul's bass a good distance from the amp. It makes sense as the wavelength for bass can be up to 16 feet long. But yes, you would need a large room to make that work.

I get you! I used a cheap Rogue bass for years and it sounded great! :)

I have been reading some of the same info on recording Paul's bass, it's very interesting stuff.  

To add a funny story to this.  One of the best bass sounds I have ever achieved was distant mic'ing a cabinet.....totally by accident.  I had a close up mic on the cabinet from an earlier session with the same bass.  Everything was already set up and in place, so when it came time to record, I just threw on the switch on the preamp and recorded the bass.  I was impressed by how well this particular take sounded.  It was n't until some time later, while messing with something else, that I realized that I had thrown the wrong mic switch and the mic that had recorded the bass, was in the middle of the room, some 10-15 ft away from the bass and pointed in the other direction.

I guess I need to go back and do some more experiments with distant micing.  I mostly record bass through a Line 6 POD these days and tweak with the amps in POD Farm.

wow that is a lot of info in soak up.. so thanks for that..

i might add: i am not a accomplished bass player. i just own a nice active bass with new strings..

guitar picks on bass strings......lol....this is the only way i can get my timing right. I've tried slapping the strings, but i'm not that fast. practice more i guess.

so, what is wrong with simply plugging the bass into the fireface? what does a DI do that the fireface does not. i send it in dry and do all the compressing and eq after.. sure i play with the knobs on the bass.. and listen closely to the sound in headphones and near fields.

anyone know a good plugin for the distortion idea? other than sonitus and cakewalks..

and would a teeny tiny amount of reverb hurt? real short..thx again

Nothing wrong with going straight to DI.  I haven't used the ff but it is ok.

As far as what to do with it afterwards.  I wouldn't use reverb on a bass, except for an effect.  Esp if your bass chops aren't excellent I'd automate the volume to smooth out the performance if it varies too much, and then use a comp.  Once again the soniutus version of the 1176 is a good place to start to peg the bass levels.  EQ it so it doesn't fight the kick drum (if the song has one), ususally letting the kick have the bottom of the spectrum.  But even if you don't have a kick, you can roll off the extreme bottom of the bass.  It may be there but mostly eats up bandwidth.  If you find upper frequencies to help it cut (and doesn't step on other instruments) you should be fine.

I, for one, don't like many digital sat/distorition plugs - I find it much better to capture those sounds during recording.  But it can help at times.  You'll just have to try, but I've found a little can help w/ the cutting through a mix like higher EQ.  But it depends upon the song and how you hear it.

@

I have been reading the 'Mixing Engineers Handbook' by Bobby Owsinski lately and I must say this is one excellent book and please I apologise if that fact has been mentioned before. There are some fantastic tips  on EQ ing the bass on pages 35, 36 and 37 of this book. 

Forgot to mention, Jeff, I have this book as well and really like it.  I read it several years ago, but after you mentioned the chapter on EQ, I went back and read some of these pages.  Yes, very good and useful information.  I am going to have to experiment with several of Bobby's tips.

Twigman

Danny Danzi




always track with new strings. That's probably the most important piece of advice I can share with you. There is nothing worse than the sound of dead bass strings unless you are purposely going for that old, dead, 60's type sound. You will have such a problem getting a good tone to work in your mix with dead strings...it's not even worth trying to record.
-Danny

+1 - that is the best piece of bass recording advice ever given......and believe me, I've made every mistake in the book when it comes to recording bass......a brand new set of ErnieBall custom flats goes a long way towards fixing everything, believe me.
http://www.stringsdirect...._45_100_50_105_55_110_

 Since I am not a regular bass player I'm not really sure what "dead" strings are. Mine seem ok. I think they put on a new set when I bought the guitar. I have a spare set I picked up when I bought it. Do dead strings sound obvious?