2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (InstrEd)

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:47:52 GMT

I like to see Dim Pro Presets also Tom. I'm still trying to grasp the whole concept and I have been looking at the presets and trying to load the CE multi samplers and try different things.

Thanks for all the time you put in and hard work." />

Ed

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:01:46 GMT

these seem to be mathematically pure derivation and so not all that workable for 'real' sounds true or not?

Yes and no. " />

The math involved isn't as much the area of difficulty in itself. It'd be more accurate to pit the waveform oscillator against sampled instrument. The lack of sampled 'filter and amplitude envelope' means you'll have to do that on your own. Also, the wavetables are spread across the entire keyboard, as opposed to third-, quarter-octave, or per-key sampling in more real-world instruments.

It's not impossible, but it is more work. I'll point to Rene's B3 based on sine waves, or the resemblance of the partials waveforms to drawbars. Before you take the plunge, try this: Call up some of your favorite Dimension Pro presets, and use the Load Multisample slot in each Element to swap out to 00 - Wavetables. That should give you a general idea of what to expect.

Dim Pro full-blown. 2 votes.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (wrench45us)

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:16:23 GMT

I'm late to this party, but will be buying a ticket soon.

I vote Dim Pro
perhaps full blown presets, but my question is
based on the mp3 samples I've heard these seem to be mathematically pure derivation and so not all that workable for 'real' sounds

true or not?

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:55:36 GMT

I'd like to take an informal survey here. This doesn't involve 'either-or'; it's just a guide for which comes first.

What would you find most useful in an Architecture CE Toolkit?
1). Rapture. Dimension Pro/LE. z3ta+. (Choose one.)
2). More full-blown presets. (Ex. - Here.)
3). Simple testing presets. (Ex. - Phase inversion between Elements and waveforms).
4). Intermediate testing presets. (Ex. - Patch generators by instrument type.)
5). Complex testing presets. (Ex. - Mix-and-match wave sequencing.)
6). Other. (Go wild here.)

'All of the above' counts as no vote. 'None of the above' counts as votes.
Thoughtful PMs / emails count as votes. Responses weighted by attitude.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (tonedef)

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:33:22 GMT

ORIGINAL: b rock

(I'm wondering now if the IEEE 16.8 file format is specific to the Adobe Audition tool)
Let me ask around, or hunt down the ol' Cool Edit here. I just got to this in Sound Forge 8, and at first glance, I don't see an easy way in yet. Another excuse to finally cave in on Audition. " />

I had always used Cool Edit and Cool Edit Pro for all of my audio editing needs. I must admit that I felt at first a little apprehensive about Audition, when I heard that Adobe had taken over Syntrillium's Cool Edit Pro and re-branded it. But I'm actually quite impressed with what Adobe has done with the product -- they preserved just about all the features from the original Cool Edit Pro and extended its capabilities even more -- I'm guessing that the original developer must still be involved with the product's development in some form or another.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:53:22 GMT

(I'm wondering now if the IEEE 16.8 file format is specific to the Adobe Audition tool)

Let me ask around, or hunt down the ol' Cool Edit here. I just got to this in Sound Forge 8, and at first glance, I don't see an easy way in yet. Another excuse to finally cave in on Audition. " />

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (tonedef)

Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:10:25 GMT

ORIGINAL: b rock

I'll be curious to compare the two approaches, and see exactly what might be lost or gained down to the wavetable level. It's certainly easy enough to batch-convert once again for the side-by-side analysis.

I'd be interested in the results of your side-by-side analysis.

I found the following discussion that details the 32-bit waveform file formats (I'm wondering now if the IEEE 16.8 file format is specific to the Adobe Audition tool):

http://www.planetz.com/phpBB2/rss.php?p=156884

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:37:29 GMT

The bottom line is that if you have an audio editing tool that supports saving to the obsolete "IEEE float (16.8 float type 1)" 32-bit waveform file format, you can convert the Architecture CE .WAVs to this format instead of down-scaling to 16-bit.

That's great information, and something that I didn't try in my haste to adapt to a workable model. I'll be curious to compare the two approaches, and see exactly what might be lost or gained down to the wavetable level. It's certainly easy enough to batch-convert once again for the side-by-side analysis.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (tonedef)

Fri, 08 Jun 2007 01:47:19 GMT

ORIGINAL: b rock

There's one more caveat that I should mention as well. For some reason, z3ta+ doesn't seem to like the Architecture CE 24-bit depth. I never really pursued why that was before I batch-converted this set into 16-bit for exclusive z3ta+ use. Maybe 16-bit is just what's supported. From the 1.4 Release Notes:
The wave files must be mono, up to 64k samples, in any sample rate.

The 24-bit Architecture CE waveforms are actually saved in a 32-bit waveform file format. It turns out that there are at least six different formats represented as 32-bit waveform files. The Architecture CE waveforms use the format described as "24-bit packed int (type 1, 24-bit)". Z3ta+, however, supports an outdated 32-bit waveform file format known as "IEEE float (16.8 float type 1)".

The bottom line is that if you have an audio editing tool that supports saving to the obsolete "IEEE float (16.8 float type 1)" 32-bit waveform file format, you can convert the Architecture CE .WAVs to this format instead of down-scaling to 16-bit. I know for a fact that Adobe Audition has this capability. Whether or not the "IEEE float" format preserves more quality than that of simply dithering down to 16-bit (heck, what exactly is a 16.8 float anyway?), I honestly don't know, but hey, it's worth trying out.

By the way, if you are curious, in addition to the two 32-bit waveform file formats mentioned above, some others are the following:
1) 32-bit normalized float (type 3)
2) 4-byte PCM (type 1, 32-bit)
3) 24-bit packed int (type 1, 20-bit)
4) 32-bit 24.0 float (type 1, 24-bit)

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (rjt)

Wed, 23 May 2007 20:41:24 GMT

Got it...thanks. Ordered one today....will order the other tomorrow.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Wed, 23 May 2007 19:31:30 GMT

Is there a way I could buy just one set of waves and still use them for all three (Absynth, Z3 and Dim?)

Ray, I got your PM today. I hope the vacation was enjoyable. However, I, um ... am unable to reply using the PM route. " /> As far as answering your question, I'll give you two links instead. First, go here to Remix magazine's site, and read the last line of the Architecture ABS Waveforms 2 review. Next, go to Galbanum's shop here, and read the sidebar entitled Upgrades and Discounts. " />

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Mon, 21 May 2007 12:01:59 GMT

a before/after demonstration on existing banks to show what is possible

[Top Image:]
In Dimension LE below, I started with a blank (initialized) Program, and clicked on the Load Multisample slot in each of the four Elements [E1-E4].
Under the Architecture Waveforms CE folder, I went to the Additive - NonSine subfolder, and chose a different waveform in each.
A simple program was generated that resembled pulling drawbars on some spacey Hammond organ.

[Middle Image:]
In Dimension Pro, I loaded the perennial preset favorite Alien Piano 1.prog from 01 -Dimensions. Again, click on E1 & E2's Multisample slot.
Here, I went to the Arch CE 'Smoothed' subfolder, and swapped out strings and piano for some additive saw wavetables.
The results? Something more aggressive: Alien Piano with a real attitude.

[Bottom Image:]
In Rapture 1.1, I loaded the TB Leslie Kneelson preset in 00 - Absolute. The first four Elements are occupied.
For this, I navigated to the Formants - Sine subfolder for some vocal-like textures; different for each Element.

On E1's Pitch StepGen, I turned it On, and dragged out 128 Steps. Right-click to bring up 'Extract Shape From Sample File'.
Then I scrolled down to Misc - Random Step, and selected Random 32 Step 08Grit.wav. Nasty little four octave glitching.
The original preset now contains contrasting organic and robotic sounds, still swept by a 'Leslie'.

Wow b! 7000 posts!!!!!!

I never pay attention to that; I just noticed. Breaktime.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (Infinite5ths)

Mon, 21 May 2007 11:51:01 GMT

Wow b! 7000 posts!!!!!!

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Mon, 21 May 2007 10:57:59 GMT

RenÃ© even was working on something with Tom for hosting some such content up at the RGC:Audio website.

Sad story: Use it or lose it. Two total contributers besides myself, and later on the domain and site resources were no longer available. Here's the background story (Rapture Prog Central) and the next chapter ([Download] 64 Program Rapture Set). I wasn't able to save the two other sets, but I mirrored my own set for that adventure here: (B Rock Collection RP-1).

For some other resources (the links in these threads are current):
110 More Presets for Rapture 1.1
[Download] Friday The 13th Rapture Programs
VOSIM Synthesis - Rapture and Dimension
Project5.com Dimension/Rapture Content

{In this last link, you'll have to hunt around, as there is no category for Dimension or Rapture. Usually, they're labeled as "PSYN" presets. Be sure to check out the contributions from forum member lawapa.}

Would anyone mind thowing up a before/after demonstration on existing banks to show what is possible? I have DimPro and love to find new ways to augment it, but in this case I'm scratching my head as to how these will help.

I wouldn't feel good about taking someone else's preset work, substituting the Multisamples, and then uploading it. Even if that was free, it's still re-distributing someone else's content. My own? That's fine, but in terms of 'existing content', I only have presets that ship with Rapture.

I don't see where an image demonstration would hurt, though. It's for the exclusive use of the end user, and it bypasses the distribution agreements. I'll put it in the next post, because it'll have to be fairly 'tall'. That way, I can cover three synths and three of the methods in one spot. (z3ta+ will have to be later on.)

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (techead)

Mon, 21 May 2007 08:48:14 GMT

ORIGINAL: tanuki_x

We've yapped on and off over the last few years around here about putting together a good user-based patch site for .sfz files.

I would love to contribute to that. Would the p5 wiki be able to host it?

I think the P5 Wiki would handle it fine if we're only talkin' about .SFZ and .PROG files. These contain nothing more than information about how to program the synths, they don't contain actual multisamples.

Multisample files tend to be large files and have lengthy record times of instruments for sampler (Dim Pro) style playback softsynths.

Wavetables might be acceptable as they are generally small sample sets intended to be used as single-cycle oscillator guides in Rapture and Dimension Pro.

All submitted .prog and .sfz files would have to be compressed into .zip files before uploading to the wiki. Each submitter would also need to create an accompanying page within the wiki to point to the downloadable .zip file and explain some basic information about its content and how to install it as well as any dependencies it might have (like these 2500+ wavetables mentioned in this forum topic)--obviously we couldn't host commercially available wavetables on the wiki for free download to others so it would be important to list the dependencies so people would know what to expect.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (tanuki_x)

Mon, 21 May 2007 07:35:53 GMT

We've yapped on and off over the last few years around here about putting together a good user-based patch site for .sfz files.

I would love to contribute to that. Would the p5 wiki be able to host it?

I am realizing now after downloading the samples that they really are enhancements that can be applied to existing banks. I think they open up opportunities I never even fathomed were possible

I've heard a lot about how great these waveforms are, but my sonic imagination is limited. Would anyone mind thowing up a before/after demonstration on existing banks to show what is possible? I have DimPro and love to find new ways to augment it, but in this case I'm scratching my head as to how these will help.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (whitefalcon)

Mon, 21 May 2007 01:00:18 GMT

I am realizing now after downloading the samples that they really are enhancements that can be applied to existing banks. I think they open up opportunities I never even fathomed were possible. Hence we enter into the mental space of Tom if it be only a small part of it.
You can open up any existing sound bank and start applying these sounds to them.
You can go to another element and choose yet another bank.
The overall effects they have are surprising.
It helps to know what the basic sounds are such as sine, pulse, sawtooth, There are many though I have never heard of to in these selected choices.
It will take a bit of experiementation to see how and what can be done.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (techead)

Sun, 20 May 2007 23:03:08 GMT

We've yapped on and off over the last few years around here about putting together a good user-based patch site for .sfz files.

RenÃ© even was working on something with Tom for hosting some such content up at the RGC:Audio website. Whatever happened to that? Or am I thinking of something else?

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (whitefalcon)

Sun, 20 May 2007 15:20:45 GMT

Mike, if you 'got it' that quickly from looking at the docs, I'd say that you're definitely the tweaker-type.

I was talking about this to someone today who's much closer to the non-tweaker category. He said, "Now how would *I* use this, without getting as deep into it as you do?" My response to him was to take existing presets, and just start swapping out the Multisamples with those in the CE set.

He must've 'gotten it' at that point. I haven't heard a word from him since.

What would be nice to have is a set of banks that are connected to the Wave files with a given name so that part is already done. It will take quite a bit of time to set those up for the 2500 banks for Dimension Pro, Z3Ta+ and Rapture. If one were to set up just one simple bank with a simple name Like Sine1, Sine2, Sine3, Sine4, Pulse1, Pulse2 on to 2500 banks. Well for DimPro, Rapture and Z3Ta+ thats 7500 bank list for the 2500 sounds.

That is an very intensive task for one person, perhaps we could all take a section and put together a comprehensive bank listing for the three major Cakewalk synths on the Project 5 web site. Think about it, it would make Cakewal heads above the competition.

Well at any rate Tom thanks for the link to this. I myself am going to go for this. It is a very reasonable price considering all the work they did on the sound side.

Whats good about this is you dont have to be into the coding to be able to use this. All you have to know how to do is copy an existing bank, rename it, bring in a wave and save it. Simple...

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Sun, 20 May 2007 10:08:44 GMT

Hey, has anyone come across any dimpro presets using this library?

I mentioned this to Mr. Souter when I first discovered this set. Understandably, he was cautious about any unauthorized re-distribution of his hard work. I did reply that was not my intention, and unethical practice. But ...

That doesn't prevent anyone from developing presets on some synths, based on this wavetable set. A Program file in DimPro or Rapture, for example, is going to look for its component parts first in the Multisample folder, then in the Sample Pool folder. If it doesn't find them there, only then will it spit out an error [Multisample Not Found]. If we assume the default Architecture CE folder structure, there's nothing keeping anyone from creating some .prog files to match.

The Programs contain references to the Multisample locations, but not the Multisamples themselves. So that fulfills the licensing requirements regarding re-distribution. If you don't have the Architecture CE set, the .progs themselves will do you little good. I suppose that it'd be equally appropriate to post preset file links here at Instruments, or at Galbanum's own forum. (I joined there, but it seems to be down at the moment.)

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (Dr. Mac)

Sun, 20 May 2007 09:32:29 GMT

I picked that up a few days ago when I heard about it on this forum. Thanks for the heads-up! I guess I'll be spending some time playing with DimPro.... oh well...

Hey, has anyone come across any dimpro presets using this library?

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Sat, 19 May 2007 21:51:26 GMT

Is there a way I could buy just one set of waves and still use them for all three (Absynth, Z3 and Dim?) I understand I will have to convert to 16 bit for Z3.

PM me if you would, Ray. I think that I have an idea for you that'll work across both [Cakewalk] synths and cover Absynth's native GLY format, too.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (Infinite5ths)

Sat, 19 May 2007 16:51:12 GMT

ORIGINAL: b rock
Two cups of stubborn, a dash of determination, and more than a touch of unexpected goodwill, Mike. I lost all of the 'works in progress', but after weeks of digital meters, soldering irons, acoustic guitar, and Microtrack recharge times, I'm ready to rock.

Even the creator of Architecture CE (Andrew Souter) helped out here. I might've been able to restore the waveform package from a partial backup, but I was more than a little concerned with corrupted data.

Hey b! ...very good news indeed. It's great to see you back in the cockpit. " />

I'm not so sure about that picture in your "Tunings Folder" though......

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (mmarsh)

Sat, 19 May 2007 16:01:56 GMT

From my reading of the website, I would go with the CE version - it has 2,500 waves! If Absynth requires 16 bit waves, well you already have to do that for z3ta+. At $29.95 this is a great deal.

Mike

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (rjt)

Sat, 19 May 2007 14:46:41 GMT

Wow, thanks for the great info. The sets are now becoming much more intriguing.

Okay...one more question. I have Absynth 4. Is there a way I could buy just one set of waves and still use them for all three (Absynth, Z3 and Dim?) I understand I will have to convert to 16 bit for Z3. Okay, next question.... which set would be the best to use for all 3 synths?

Thanks again (b rock-- you should be getting a fee from the company for this.... or at least free waves or something!!)

Take care

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (mmarsh)

Sat, 19 May 2007 14:22:45 GMT

OK, looking at the release notes for 1.1 - 1.4 there is a mention of a "Wavetable Set Creation" utility. Intriguing, but I can't find it anywhere. Any clues?

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (mmarsh)

Sat, 19 May 2007 14:17:27 GMT

I didn't know you could load waves that way! Cool. Is that documented anywhere? I guess I'll look into the 1.5 readme...

And z3ta+ will not load the Arch files as is, just as b_rock noted. It does load 16 bit waves so you'll have to convert to use in z3ta+.

Still and all, to my view, Rapture makes it a *ton* easier!

Mike

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (b rock)

Sat, 19 May 2007 13:55:39 GMT

1) I have Dimension from P5

I haven't used that since DimPro came out, but when I was, I did work a lot with wavetables. It's set up the exact same way as DimPro LE, DimPro, or Rapture.

2) I have Z3ta+...., I think you can use the waves in that, but...how hard is it to add your own waves to Z3....

It's not difficult since v.1.4. First, select the User (x) slot that you'd like to replace with another .wav file. Click on Programs, and select Load User Wavetable (.wav). Rene suggests to keep open the Shaper window so you can see what's happening. In 1.5 onward, you can manipulate the Shaper, right-click and Save As Wavetable ..., and bring it right back in again as a User file.

So, if you wanted to scroll through the waves to hear what was there, would it be easy or hard in Z3?

There's no real way to audition the wavetables without them being loaded. So, that's a one-at-at-time audition; in context.

There's one more caveat that I should mention as well. For some reason, z3ta+ doesn't seem to like the Architecture CE 24-bit depth. I never really pursued why that was before I batch-converted this set into 16-bit for exclusive z3ta+ use. Maybe 16-bit is just what's supported. From the 1.4 Release Notes:

The wave files must be mono, up to 64k samples, in any sample rate.

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (mmarsh)

Sat, 19 May 2007 13:44:56 GMT

Hey there rjt -

You can have up to 6 user waves per program bank. You must name the waves user1, user2, ... , user6 and put them in the same folder as the bank. It's much more cumbersome than Rapture but the functionality is there. The waves do work in the DIm synth from P5.

And you are right: this is a great way to create your own sounds!

Good luck,

Mike

RE: 2500+ Waveforms at the [Cakewalk] Store (rjt)

Sat, 19 May 2007 13:15:04 GMT

Sorry for the kind of basic question(s) but:
1) I have Dimension from P5...not Dimension Pro....I gather the waves work in that as well (from the comment, any flavor of Dimension, but I just wanted to check)
2) I have Z3ta+...., I think you can use the waves in that, but...how hard is it to add your own waves to Z3....I vaguely remember trying a long time ago (or maybe it was Pentagon??--at my age...memory must be going....what was I saying?? " />) to create and use a couple of waves and it wasn't easy. So, if you wanted to scroll through the waves to hear what was there, would it be easy or hard in Z3?

Sorry if these are basic questions...... but this sounds like a good way for a modest tweaker like me to create some of my own stuff.

TIA