when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (No How)

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:10:25 GMT

can you give a plug in name that does this? (I'm working with Music Creator 3 and not Sonar.)

much appreciated.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (HotCoollMusicGirl)

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:56:19 GMT

Clip envelopes can also help tame plosives and other mouth sounds. As can, sometimes, zooming in and muting (with the K tool) a very short range of samples.

Note that you can split the clip on either side of the problem sound, and apply any corrective EQ, etc, to only that clip using its fx bin.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (fep)

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:18:49 GMT

I use a hi pass on every track. Kill all subsonics, they're inaudible and eat up headroom.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (foxwolfen)

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:35:31 GMT

I use filters and EQ to do a variety of things...

1. To balance the sound (EQ)

2. For vocal effects - Hi Pass

3. To separate a mono instrument for a stereo effect (For instance a Guitar - I will hi-pass the left channel, and low pass the right).

WRT to what John said, while an EQ is designed to "equalize" the frequencies, I do not ever use it for that, as a flat sound is generally unpleasant. Balancing the sound means putting the highs and lows at a level that works with the song, not just flat.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (mlockett)

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:04:12 GMT

ORIGINAL: boris.dante
... is it possible to remove those noises caused by puffs on the mic during recording session by such EQ filters?

As with many things, prevention is better than cure. Try backing the singer away from the mic, or move the mic up higher to reduce plosives. Good singing technic can obviously help as well.

If you have plosives in your recording and need to fix them, often a multiband compressor is a better solution than EQ. With a multiband comp, you can attenuate the desired freq's only when they go over a certain threshold, which may help you preserve your desired sound thoughout the track.

If the plosives are in low enough freqs where you don't mind killing the freqs entirely (below 150hz), the EQing them out is the simplest way.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (HotCoollMusicGirl)

Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:36:04 GMT

ORIGINAL: John

The word is equalization. It means flatten out. Just because its used to fix issues in a mix the idea behind EQ is what I have said. Lopping off the high or low end is not equalization. If a mic has a high pass filter is that EQing?

I guess it depends on whether one wants to be etymologically precise or of practical instructive value in the realworld.

In a context like this... where if someone wants to apply a HPF to an audio signal... and where the means of doing that virtually always involves the use of a tool commonly called an 'EQ'... and where the signal to which the HPF is applied is often subject to additional frequency shaping and filtering through other controls on that same tool... or by using another tool of the same 'EQ' category placed elsewhere in the path... then I think it's less likely to clarify than it is to confuse matters to say that using a HPF "is not really EQing."

<< The word is equalization. It means flatten out. >>

Again, etymologically you may be correct. Here is how Cakewalk's Help file describes the Sonitus "equalizer" that it builds into each of its tracks and busses and refers to throughout its documentation as "EQ," with its individual settings referred to as "filter" types, and that (it would seem, based on how often it comes up here on the forum) most Sonar users turn to when they need to place a HPF on a path... which is one of the most commonly advised techniques for shaping a mix... and one of the five filter types offered by the "equalizer."

ORIGINAL: The Sonitus Equalizer Help file.

Equalizers are instrumental in fine tuning the frequency spectrum in all kinds of music and sound. They let you use different filtering techniques to attenuate, cut or boost a specific frequency or a range of frequencies, allowing you the shape the overall characteristics of the audio signal. If a sound is said to have too much bass, treble or midtone presence, equalization refers to the frequency compensation needed to correct it. Equalization may also be applied creatively, to add presence or enhance certain frequencies, to remove noise, hum or low-end rumble, for special effects or numerous other purposes. The possibilities are virtually endless. Equalizers should still be used with care, since sound and tone are very subjective experiences. You should take into account your audio equipment, the room acoustics and frequency response of your location, the type of audio material you are working with, your hearing and most of all your personal tastes.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (JSGlen)

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:26:08 GMT

Ideally, you should always avoid using EQ unless you are going for an "effect". In my early analog days we tried to avoid using EQ by making changes to the source instrument, be it vocal, guitar etc. It is all about mic placement, mic type (coloration etc), and the room environment. Today, many engineers rely too heavily on EQ to fix it in the mix. The more you learn about tracking, mic placement etc, the less you have to rely on using EQ in the mix. That is why you should plan your mix during the recording/tracking process. Always think about how, what you are recording, is going to fit in the mix.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (John)

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:02:58 GMT

The word is equalization. It means flatten out. Just because its used to fix issues in a mix the idea behind EQ is what I have said. Lopping off the high or low end is not equalization. If a mic has a high pass filter is that EQing?

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (HotCoollMusicGirl)

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:44:13 GMT

I can see that low-pass and high pass-filtering differ in several ways from (to use your example) cutting a range of frequencies around a center frequency, and leaving frequencies on either side of that range unaffected. But is it really accurate to exclude HP and LP filtering from the definition of 'equalization'?

Is the idea of EQing really, or only, to get a "flat" frequency response? Wouldn't that depend on what you were EQing, and why you were EQing it?

It seems to me that EQing is changing the relative balance of frequency components of a given audio signal. As for the nature of that change -- whether it's a smooth tapering on the low end, or on the high end, or creating one or more dips and/or peaks at points across the audible range, and whether it's to correctively produce a "flat" and "natural" sound or to destructively produce an unnatural tonal balance of the source material -- isn't it all EQ? Or am I using the term too casually, or with too little regard for EQ's original historical function, as opposed to its common use as a creative tool (as an "effect" if you will) for sculpting sound... similar to how compression can be approached with a greater or lesser regard for its "correct" purpose?

In any case, I like CJ's answer:

...your never suppose to use anything, you use it because you want to use it to achieve a certain sound or a certain mix. There are no rules of when to use this or that.

FWIW, it's the rare track of mine that doesn't use a high pass filter. In fact, I wish I could set the built in track EQ to default to HPF mode.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (John)

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:11:39 GMT

Hi-pass and lo-pass are just another form of equalization. You may want to bone up on your EQ theory a little bit in prep.

Well I wouldn't put it that way. Unless you approach EQ with a meat cleaver. Its clear from the other posts what those filters are. Equalization is the application of precisely changing the various frequencies volumes for various reasons. Cutting at around 800 Hz because it is too prominent in the output is EQing. Cutting all the lows with a high pass filter to eliminate anything below say 30 Hz is for getting rid of rumble for example. That is not really EQing. The idea of EQing is to get a flat frequency response. Using either a low pass or a high pass filter is to remove data. They are very different things. They use filter that makes them seem that they are much the same thing.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (RKM33)

Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:22:04 GMT

I know this is highly subjective and really depends on what instrument you are applying it to. But, regarding the high-pass, are most of you using just the first node or are you moving into the second as well?

Thanks!

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (HotCoollMusicGirl)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:00:41 GMT

Depending on the music, the mix, and the mood you're going for, along with other processing... it's sometimes startling how much LF you can get away with cutting on a vocal.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (holderofthehorns)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:10:39 GMT

I once recorded a female volcalist that was eating her mic during a live performance.
Proximity effect was way full.
Later, I had to cut LF all the way up to 500hz before she sounded good.
Very intimate. You could hear her breath, and the music was clean.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (AndyW)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:18:25 GMT

ORIGINAL: boris.dante

ok then would you suggest me any free easy readings about mastering and mixing? And I have some other questions: is it possible to remove those noises caused by puffs on the mic during recording session by such EQ filters? I tried to use the EQ on Soundforge 9, but it seems to be not that easy... can you suggest me also some free guides about Soundforge 9? And this is my last question: which bit depth is best for recording? I chose 32 bits, even if I made some recordings in 16 bits on the same track... Thanks,

Boris

1. Get a pop filter for your mic.

2. Go through the tutorials for SONAR(and all your other software).

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (papa2004)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:15:52 GMT

Boris,

You're asking a dozen questions. Can we try solving one problem at a time?

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (j boy)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:15:42 GMT

Boris the best thing to do is just jump in a try these things out. Try bouncing several mixes and compare. Sad to say there are few shortcuts to learning by doing.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (boris.dante)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:56:56 GMT

nobody can help?? please!!

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (boris.dante)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:22:21 GMT

ok then would you suggest me any free easy readings about mastering and mixing? And I have some other questions: is it possible to remove those noises caused by puffs on the mic during recording session by such EQ filters? I tried to use the EQ on Soundforge 9, but it seems to be not that easy... can you suggest me also some free guides about Soundforge 9? And this is my last question: which bit depth is best for recording? I chose 32 bits, even if I made some recordings in 16 bits on the same track... Thanks,

Boris

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (CJaysMusic)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:46:02 GMT

when are we supposed to use High-pass and Low-pass filters? Thanks,

Your not going to like this, but your never suppose to use anything, you use it because you want to use it to achieve a certain sound or a certain mix. There are no rules of when to use this or that. They do exactly what there called. I suggest that you read up on mixing and mastering and tracking also. This will open your eyes to allot of stuff and youll better understand these thnigs your asking, cause its a huge topic
Cj

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (Rbh)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:16:57 GMT

I do primarily Electric Jazz and Adult contemporary music. Most all rhythm instruments get a dose of High Pass on them particularly Rhodes and clean guitars. Drums almost never ( I think the low end on cymbals is very important actually ) I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with than one.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (mattplaysguitar)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:29:42 GMT

ORIGINAL: AndyW

ORIGINAL: DonaldDuck

I use Hipass (low filtering) filters on nearly every track. It really helps the bass stay clean and not rumble.

I never thought I would actually see myself say this but...I agree with Donald Duck. " />

+1

I keep cutting until I can hear the instrument changing in the mix, then back off just a little. Pretty much everything will have sonitus and a HP on it. It's important on low instruments as well as pretty much anything below 40Hz is USUALLY not musical and just adds mud. If you were mixing a scary movie, the keep those 40Hz rumbles for sure, but for music, you would usually want to cut them out.

One thing I swear by is putting a HP on drum overheads and room mics. Bass should really mainly be a mono source. It just gets muddy if it's in stereo. Now look at an overhead track, it's in stereo (usually). You leave that bass in and every kick and tom and snare is all boomy and everywhere and in your face and crappy. I will usually HP the room and overheads at least up to 100Hz as this REALLY cleans the drum mix out a lot.

Guitars, they can be tricky depending on your song. Most songs you will give the guitars justice if you HP them to something like 100Hz, or maybe a bit more, depending on where your bass fundamentals are sitting. If you are doing a big heavy rock song, however, you often want those big bassy powerfull chugging sounds of your palm mutes. You need that low end for that. But for the normal playing, you don't want as much. They are HARD to mix well. They sit VERY close to the bass. EQ envelopes or volume envelopes could be very useful here. With proper use, you may find that multiband compression on the low end may give you some good results.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (AndyW)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:42:47 GMT

ORIGINAL: DonaldDuck

I use Hipass (low filtering) filters on nearly every track. It really helps the bass stay clean and not rumble.

I never thought I would actually see myself say this but...I agree with Donald Duck. " />

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (...wicked)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:25:14 GMT

Must. Resist. Smart Alec. Answer.
okee, think I did it.

Hi-pass and lo-pass are just another form of equalization. You may want to bone up on your EQ theory a little bit in prep.

Usually they're used when you only want a very specific part of the sound to come through, especially used in mixes where you want to keep the low-end from getting as cluttered as possible.

They're also used quite a bit as filters that can be swept to create those "swooshing" techno effects we all love. By moving the freq. of the pass, you can alter a sound in a fun way. William Orbit loves filters like that.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (I/O)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:17:13 GMT

Wow, great information here. You guys definately helped me " />. Now I can't wait to get home and see if I can un-muddy some of my mixes

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (inmazevo)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:40:33 GMT

One thing to keep in mind is that there are other ways to "filter" than simply a high-pass/low-pass filter will necessarily offer.
I'm beginning to realize just how big this subject can be.

There are the more obvious things:
- if you want to get rid of things that aren't wanted: like mic rumble... filters are great for this type of thing
- you've got a bass line you want to hear "cleanly," but you have a patch or two from a synth that has stuff down there too... use a filter or eq, or tweak the patch (I prefer tweaking the patch, when possible... no sense in even playing something you're going to filter out anyway)
- you've got a lead that you want to hear "cleanly," but you have a patch or two from a synth that has stuff up there too... use a filter or eq, or tweak the patch

But there are some less obvious things as well (to me at least).

I tend to use EQ over filters, since many times an EQ will give you more precise control... and there might be times when you want to filter in the middle (band-pass).

Another thing you can do if you want to NOT filter all the time:
- side chaining... it's great for stuff like when you have a bass line competing with an electronic kick drum, and you want both, but don't want them to get "muddy" when they trigger at the same time.

My current track has a lot of layered/sweeping synths/basses that compete quite heaviliy with one another, but I want all of them.
For this type of thing, I'll likely do a bit of everything: tweak the patches a bit, add some modest EQ, add some panning (particularly for the muddy mids), and side chain the primary bass and the kick drum

It's song specific, and for me requires LOADS of listening in different environments. If it's muddy or grungy, and that's not what you're going for, clearly filtering/eq/side-chaining/patch editing is in order.
I'm documenting, for personal development, my process with this particular track, and will post the results on my blog once I get to the mixdown experimentation phase.
I'll post a link when I'm done, if you're interested. It might be useful, but I'm not a "pro" per say, so it would be good to get some feedback from others as well.

There are loads of books/websites about mixing/mastering.
I can't remember off-hand, and don't have time to look them up (I'm at work right now), but maybe someone could post some links/recommendations?

- zevo

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (Jose7822)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:33:46 GMT

ORIGINAL: boris.dante

ok, I already knew that stuff... I mean, how to know when those frequencies need to be filtered?

It depends a lot on the instrumentation and the arrangement of the song but, generally, you want to filter out the low end of most instruments except for Kick and Bass. Then you wanna do the opposite on those instruments that don't have a lot of information in the upper registers like Kick and Bass. Just listen to it's effect with the mix and decide if the filters provide the clarity you seek. Sometime you have to cut a bit before you hear the instrument thin out so don't be affraid of this. Just make sure you have enough information (frequency-wise) so it doesn't sound too thin in the mix. Never apply filtering while the instrument is Solo'ed unless you're filtering out some specific noise or looking for a specific range (i.e. the fundamental of the Kick, etc).

HTH

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (Kalle Rantaaho)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:28:11 GMT

Only experience will teach you that. If we say "Use a high pass when there's too much low stuff, you'll ask us "When is there too much low stuff?". Next thing we'll stumble on is that you hear differently cause you have different monitors etc......
Read books and articles on the subject (Mixing and mastering) and make a zillion different mixes and mastered versions. Finally you have an idea of what needs to be done with the gear you use.

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (AT)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:26:36 GMT

Use your ears is the smart-assed answer. But I habitually roll off the LF, esp. vocals. I've cut them up to almost 200 Hz at times, if it doesn't affect the sound (that is an extreme example, however). Other, high frequency instruments also get their low end killed, esp. if they are mic'ed.

There is a lot of energy down low that will eat up headroom (that is why it is common to have a separate sub woofer to produce them). On vocals and other mic'ed stuff that is where rumble etc. live, too. If it doesn't affect the sound, why not get rid of noise? And if it ain't bass (guitar, drum, keys, tuba etc.), it doesn't need such low frequencies anyway. Start at 40 Hz and start carving out the low - when you hit meat, back off. Each instrument is different.

@

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (DonaldDuck)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:23:45 GMT

I use Hipass (low filtering) filters on nearly every track. It really helps the bass stay clean and not rumble.

I don't use Low pass filters although I'm sure others will believe in them as much as I believe in the High pass filters. " />

RE: when to use High-pass / Low-pass filter (emwhy)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:22:45 GMT

I use highpass filters on certain instruments in a mix when I want to make room for the stuff that should properly occupy the lower registers. A recent example was a few months back I was tracking a bassist and was getting some rumble. I set-up a highpass filter on the acoustic guitar track and shelved out everything below 200 or so and the rumble went away and gave the bass the right amount of space to sit nicely. Every situation is different, this just happened to work for me.