Fantom FX

Re:Fantom FX (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:51:20 GMT

Even though it is multi-timbral and can be used like that (with different effects on different channels to a point), I tend to think of the Fantom VS like I would think of most external hardware synths. In that I use all the power the synth has to get a sound for a part and then record it (freeze it in this case). Then I rinse and repeat using all the power the synth has for each track. You can use the Fantom VS just like this and freeze makes this pretty easy to do, and still be able to go back and make changes by a simple "Quick Unfreeze". There has always been a compromise with hardware synths and effects when running multi-timbrally. This is no worse and arguably much better in that freeze gets you around much of the frustration in actual use. YYMV of course.

Re:Fantom FX (KingofSine)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:41:15 GMT

I was all excited about the included synth but now I'm very disappointed... I went through that same crap with my Fantom X (fortunately I also had a Motif)... I'm very suprised that Roland hasn't outgrown that 3 effects slots sh!t by now... I thought they did with the new Fantoms... Well at least you guys can freeze tracks (which I couldn't) but for me there's nothing like hearing effects real time as you run across new patches and not have to print tracks just to free up the damn effects slots... I don't miss hardware synths at all and it doesn't look like I'm missing anything with the hardware/software synths...

Re:Fantom FX (djjhart@aol.com)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:25:39 GMT

ok thats seem pretty easy ... Cool

Re:Fantom FX (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:26:52 GMT

For situations where you MUST have some effect outboard of the Fantom on a particular element, here's what i do. Freeze the synth channel and put effects on it. You may want to drag it to a new track and then you can unfreeze Fantom and continue to work. You could also use bounce to clip or track.

Re:Fantom FX (djjhart@aol.com)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:33:30 GMT

cool so it can be routed and bounced.. so Its a hardware base not a Vsti .. gotcha no cpu strain, but has an editor built in, with internal efxs... so there's 1/4 jacks in the back of the console that are the Fantom's sends/outs? and a virtual out to the mixer channel?

Jeff Evans

The Fantom can go into performance mode where you can create up to 16 parts or layers. (Assign separate midi channels etc) Because it has got the ablility to handle 128 voices that is 8 voices per part if you really needed it but often many parts dont need 8 voices so it has voices to burn really.

Now it has its own built in effects processors. There are separate chorus and reverb effects and 3 multi effects units MFX1 MFX 2 and MFX 3. The multi effects units contain 78 effects and can be put into series and parrallel combinations.

So Fantom is very well covered with effects so for Steve's question yes we have level, panning and serious effects processing on all 16 parts and all inside Fantom. If you put the effort in you can come up with some pretty amazing sounding patches with lots of internal Fantom effects and they will not be using any of your valuable Sonar CPU resources. But all of this comes out on two outputs. (For djjhart though that stereo output can still be sent to any of the outs on the back of the VS700R so in a way it is similar to having a separate synth) The effects are pretty good and would hold up for many jobs.

But in a previous post I was talking about freezing parts and copying the frozen audio onto separate Sonar tracks. This takes us into the world of all the Sonar effects and plugins etc and of course you can end up with Fantom taking up 16 tracks if you want for really serious further processing. And those tracks can still contain the internal Fantom effects if you still want to include them in a patch. And to djjhart it is not that difficult to do. Not even a 2080 or 5080 for that matter is going to have 16 stereo pairs of outs on the back but that is what you can do with Fantom if you want to take it up to that level.

There is only one Fantom in there and you can only have one instance of it but still it can make a lot of noise for just one instance. Now if you put the ARX board in you get all this again in the form of another complete synth. But there are only three choices for those at present. (Electric Pianos, Drums and Brass) I have heard them and they are all amazing though! Especially the Brass board.

Re:Fantom FX (Jeff Evans)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:20:29 GMT

The Fantom can go into performance mode where you can create up to 16 parts or layers. (Assign separate midi channels etc) Because it has got the ablility to handle 128 voices that is 8 voices per part if you really needed it but often many parts dont need 8 voices so it has voices to burn really.

Now it has its own built in effects processors. There are separate chorus and reverb effects and 3 multi effects units MFX1 MFX 2 and MFX 3. The multi effects units contain 78 effects and can be put into series and parrallel combinations.

So Fantom is very well covered with effects so for Steve's question yes we have level, panning and serious effects processing on all 16 parts and all inside Fantom. If you put the effort in you can come up with some pretty amazing sounding patches with lots of internal Fantom effects and they will not be using any of your valuable Sonar CPU resources. But all of this comes out on two outputs. (For djjhart though that stereo output can still be sent to any of the outs on the back of the VS700R so in a way it is similar to having a separate synth) The effects are pretty good and would hold up for many jobs.

But in a previous post I was talking about freezing parts and copying the frozen audio onto separate Sonar tracks. This takes us into the world of all the Sonar effects and plugins etc and of course you can end up with Fantom taking up 16 tracks if you want for really serious further processing. And those tracks can still contain the internal Fantom effects if you still want to include them in a patch. And to djjhart it is not that difficult to do. Not even a 2080 or 5080 for that matter is going to have 16 stereo pairs of outs on the back but that is what you can do with Fantom if you want to take it up to that level.

There is only one Fantom in there and you can only have one instance of it but still it can make a lot of noise for just one instance. Now if you put the ARX board in you get all this again in the form of another complete synth. But there are only three choices for those at present. (Electric Pianos, Drums and Brass) I have heard them and they are all amazing though! Especially the Brass board.

Re:Fantom FX (Crg)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:14:37 GMT

Westside Steve

But you could have 16 different instruments as midi channels with differnt eq comp FX and pan correct?

WSS

Yes, you can have 16 different instruments with 16 different inputs-all midi channels. On the effects question, there are three different effects slots plus an overall reverb + chous available to each channel. You have to route them on the effects page and enter them in each channel on the mixer for the 3 slots. Rather limited if you need a midi effect other than the three already chosen for the other channels. The chous and reverb are controlled by knobs on the mixer page per channel. There's quite a bit of setup and tweakable settings per channel for the effects on the Patch-Common/Structure page per channel also. Just remember, you have to click each channel and set it individually.

Re:Fantom FX (djjhart@aol.com)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:56:49 GMT

I would think if its 16 part midi then you can add midi efxs not audio efxs seperate.as there's only one audio out channel.such as L as R stereo. and you can have only one instance ,dose it have an actual physical outS? I would say yes if its Like a hardware synth ..I dunno for sure..

Re:Fantom FX (Westside Steve)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:46:15 GMT

But you could have 16 different instruments as midi channels with differnt eq comp FX and pan correct?

WSS

Re:Fantom FX (djjhart@aol.com)

Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:04:27 GMT

So dose it have a stereo out on the board ? Like my Jv 2080? or dose it have multiple Virtual outs?.. so I would have to bounce to audio then re-record or change the patch for another layer. if so that is Lame sorry to say..and a waste of money ..

Re:Fantom FX (mosspa)

Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:02:05 GMT

No. It isn't a softysynth being created by software in your computer, it is a hardware card residing in the VS-700R, and ther is only one of them in there. Since there is only 1 Fantom card, there can only be one instance of it.

John

Re:Fantom FX (djjhart@aol.com)

Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:42:50 GMT

Thats pretty Lame that you have to go through that ... Can you just create another Fanthom vsti?

Create 16 Audio tracks. Mute all but part 1 of the Fantom. Freeze that and make a copy of that frozen audio and place the copy on Audio track 1. Unfreeze Track 1. Then unmute part 2. Freeze that, copy its audio over to Audio track 2. Do this for all 16 channels.

Jeff Evans

The Fantom can receive multi timbral sequences but it has only two outputs. Have a read of this which I put up on another thread. It explains a workaround.

Craig, there is a work around if you want to process and mix all the channels of the Fantom separately. After you have done a 16 part multi timbral sequence you will notice that all 16 channels are coming out two outputs only so you cant get into too much processing on separate channels.

Create 16 Audio tracks. Mute all but part 1 of the Fantom. Freeze that and make a copy of that frozen audio and place the copy on Audio track 1. Unfreeze Track 1. Then unmute part 2. Freeze that, copy its audio over to Audio track 2. Do this for all 16 channels.

You will end up with all 16 Fantom parts sitting on 16 separate audio tracks. Then you can go for it in terms of mixing, effects, automation etc. This is how you make the Fantom sound ten times better than it normally does!

You will still have Fantom sitting around with nothing to do after doing all that so you can use it for something else!

Another trick too is after you unfreeze a track you get back to the midi data. Create 16 midi tracks. Copy the midi parts one by one and put those onto the midi tracks. Mute those. But if you do this, anytime you want to you can go back to the midi tracks if you want to change something. This is one way of preserving t he midi data.

Re:Fantom FX (Crg)

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:58:06 GMT

I wonder if multiple outs is a update issue or if it can't be expanded because it's hardware?

WSS

Good question. Probably a hardware issue.

Re:Fantom FX (Westside Steve)

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:49:13 GMT

Thanks guys.
I remember my Roland XV modules had FX for each patch (or part or whatever ya call it), I just didn't use them as there were 8 outs.

I wonder if multiple outs is a update issue or if it can't be expanded because it's hardware?

WSS

Re:Fantom FX (Crg)

Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:04:52 GMT

Westside Steve

So can you use the Sonitus etc FX plugs on each Fantom track or must you use the Fantom FX?

WSS

Well, you can't use audio effects on Midi tracks. The effects in Fantom will work within the Fantom and they're pretty tweakable. You do have the option of spliitting the left-right outs on the Fantom and putting effects sends on them.
If you want the same effects workability as audio you'd have to convert all your Fantom midi tracks to audio first. I haven't done this yet so I can't really give you the details. With as many instruments as are in the Fantom and the controls for expression-etc., I doubt you'd need any effects until you were mastering the audio.
Biut I warn you it's just my opinion at this point.

Re:Fantom FX (Jeff Evans)

Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:22:47 GMT

The Fantom can receive multi timbral sequences but it has only two outputs. Have a read of this which I put up on another thread. It explains a workaround.

Craig, there is a work around if you want to process and mix all the channels of the Fantom separately. After you have done a 16 part multi timbral sequence you will notice that all 16 channels are coming out two outputs only so you cant get into too much processing on separate channels.

Create 16 Audio tracks. Mute all but part 1 of the Fantom. Freeze that and make a copy of that frozen audio and place the copy on Audio track 1. Unfreeze Track 1. Then unmute part 2. Freeze that, copy its audio over to Audio track 2. Do this for all 16 channels.

You will end up with all 16 Fantom parts sitting on 16 separate audio tracks. Then you can go for it in terms of mixing, effects, automation etc. This is how you make the Fantom sound ten times better than it normally does!

You will still have Fantom sitting around with nothing to do after doing all that so you can use it for something else!

Another trick too is after you unfreeze a track you get back to the midi data. Create 16 midi tracks. Copy the midi parts one by one and put those onto the midi tracks. Mute those. But if you do this, anytime you want to you can go back to the midi tracks if you want to change something. This is one way of preserving t he midi data.

Fantom FX (Westside Steve)

Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:24:17 GMT

So can you use the Sonitus etc FX plugs on each Fantom track or must you use the Fantom FX?

WSS