Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Fret Wizz)

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:25:34 GMT

jackn2mpu

I've got WMP9 on the Mac web surfing machine in question. Downloaded the video and it won't play.

I dunno .... how does it work on a Mac?
Do you have the automatic codec installing enabled?
Maybe you don't have the right codec?

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Blades)

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:20:22 GMT

* edited: got rid of message since the forum didn't properly refresh, I didn't see alll these responses! *

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (jackn2mpu)

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 06:37:05 GMT

zungle

Yes if you don't have Vista or Windows 7 you will need to use WMP 11 to view.

Not true...........If you download the video ....XPs2 WMP8 Plays it fine

I've got WMP9 on the Mac web surfing machine in question. Downloaded the video and it won't play.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (zungle)

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:18:11 GMT

Yes if you don't have Vista or Windows 7 you will need to use WMP 11 to view.

Not true...........If you download the video ....XPs2 WMP8 Plays it fine

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (jackn2mpu)

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:42:09 GMT

rhythminmind

Being that this is a Sonar only issue & Sonar being a windows only platform. This video can be viewed by most Sonar users without having to deviate from a stock install.
Platform compatibility wasn't a goal. mpeg4 is my choice for that.
But WMP11's screen-capture codec is unbeatable in it's quality to filesize ratio for the windows platform that all Sonar users run.

What I was trying to get across in my post was not everybody runs the latest/greatest version of software on their Windoze machines. And your statement that 'This video can be viewed by most Sonar users without having to deviate from a stock install' leaves out those that don't have a 'stock' install. Or decide to do their web browsing on a machine that doesn't speak Windoze XP or Vista. I don't care that WMP11's codec is 'unbeatable in it's quality to filesize ratio' either. It's like those who code a web page that only works using Internet Explorer - what I have to say about those people isn't printable in genteel company.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Fret Wizz)

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:27:39 GMT

It's not absolutely necessary to have WMP 11 installed to view the video.
That's just the version of the MS player that you need to see it.

I never use WMP because I don't like it.
It is disabled on my system.

At the moment I'm usin the GOM player from Gretech and the
vid plays fine in this.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (jackn2mpu)

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:07:53 GMT

rhythminmind

jackn2mpu

rhythminmind

Ok I made a video for those that don't understand the issue.. Here you go.
Sonar 8.5 copy/paste bug.

Video doesn't work on a Mac with Firefox 3.5.3. Downloaded the video and Windows Media Player gives this error message: The channel does not support the stream format.

Yes if you don't have Vista or Windows 7 you will need to use WMP 11 to view.

That sucks. You locked out a goodly number of people with that. It really should be changed to something a bit more accessible than what Microsnot considers the latest/greatest software. Not everyone runs the latest versions of software (even on our daws).

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (jackn2mpu)

Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:27:24 GMT

rhythminmind

Ok I made a video for those that don't understand the issue.. Here you go.
Sonar 8.5 copy/paste bug.

Video doesn't work on a Mac with Firefox 3.5.3. Downloaded the video and Windows Media Player gives this error message: The channel does not support the stream format.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (puffer)

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:28:17 GMT

Funkybot, see, I'm of the opposite mind. Some times I want to start with simple instrument tracks, especially if I'm just comping. If I'm just 'making my demo' I just want to have a single BFD2 track. When it gets to mixing it's O so handy to split that to separate tracks and clone the audio tracks. My StylusRMX template is set to load it as an instrument track and if I end up using more than one channel I can do this with a 'flick of the switch'.

Not saying that there's not room for improvements and optimization - and, apparently, bug fixes - but in its current operational logic I think its a fairly graceful way of dealing with old smokes like myself who are used to Sonar's two-track-for-everything legacy.

I've never encountered this particular issue cause I, too, just lasso and Ctrl-drag.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Funkybot)

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:51:02 GMT

John

they still havent fixed this bug ?? oh my god.... :( How to reproduce this bug : Insert 2 softsynths as simple instrument track. Create some midi-event on each track. Press ctrl+a to hightlick both tracks and event-clips. Then copy clip-events (ctrl+c). Now try to paste it (ctrl+v), destination : starting at track 1. ...As you can see this results in sonar creating new tracks which is not correct. I dont get this bug if I split the instrument tracks and repeat the process...
It has been my understanding that you do not want to edit instruments tracks. It was not meant for that. That is why they can be split up into MIDI and audio tracks. If you want to do things as described you should split them first. Instrument tracks were meant for simple user needs. What you are thinking is a bug is really outside of the use intended for them.

There really is no good reason to use them if you wish to do a lot of editing on them.

John, if true, that's a poor excuse on Cakewalk's part. I think Sonar users just want the same kind of instrument tracks that Reaper, Cubase, etc., offer where the MIDI on the softsynth track, controls that softsynth and can still be worked on and tweaked as though it were a normal MIDI track. If Sonar's Instrument Tracks weren't designed with the concept of editing MIDI in mind, then why even include it as a feature (i.e. do it right or don't do it at all)? And "simple user needs" doesn't quite satisfy me in terms of an answer either? Sonar's a professional program, and should be geared to towards simple user needs. Let those users stick to Home Studio or whatever...

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (fnukyguy)

Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:47:56 GMT

looks like we have conflicting report about wether putting all the simple instrument tracks inside a track folder fixes the problem in 8.5.1 ....
anyone else tested if it works?

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (cornix)

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:30:41 GMT

What about good old CTRL+LMouse drag/drop?
And why is this one click solution 'workaround'?

But anyhow, bug is bug and need to be fixed...

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Fret Wizz)

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:04:32 GMT

Yeah 8.5.1

Sorry ... should've made that clear.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (fnukyguy)

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:51:44 GMT

Putting all the simple instrument tracks in a trackfolder (workaround 3) does not fix the bug for me on Sonar 8.3.1. I have not tried with 8.5.1.

Fret wizz, are u using 8.5.1?

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Fret Wizz)

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:30:55 GMT

Da=man

So if I'm hearing right it is only when you copy 2 tracks together?

It seems to be multiple tracks.

The bottom most track gets moved to a new track below.

Unless the tracks being copy/pasted are in a track folder

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Fret Wizz)

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:02:02 GMT

I can reproduce that here as well.
Looks like a bug to me.

3 workarounds.

Copy only 1 track at a time.
Drag copy.
If the tracks being copied/pasted
are all inside a track folder then
the copy/paste seems to work
correctly.

Workaround 3 is the best option IMHO.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (fnukyguy)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:35:51 GMT

blades! thanks for the tip about the lasso select thing :) beautiful workaround!
hmm only problem is that I dont get all the features thats in the paste menu, like how many times I want the clip to be repeated

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Blades)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:07:09 GMT

I get what you are seeing as well. Interestingly, as a workaround (which may not work for all circumstances), you can lasso select all the clips you want and then ctrl drag them and they copy correctly.

Seems like this would be quite a nuisance if you wanted to take all of the instrument tracks of a chorus and paste it later in the song to another chorus. I guess I got so used to the two track thing (midi+audio for an instrument) that I haven't run into this with instrument tracks, as they are NOW my default, but in older projects they are still split tracks.

This one definitely seems like one for the bug fix list - especially since it seems to have found its way into a few different versions.

Hope that helps.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (lorneyb2)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:42:41 GMT

The tracks on SCRIN that show as "dubled" the session drummer is actually the audio output track for the session drummer with the wrong Icon for some reason but it is the audio output track I believe.

When copying/pasting multiple tracks there is a box that comes up where you have to select "starting with track #" that likely wasn't selected so it will put it into the tracks designated there. Would have to select starting with track 2 in the example shown. I tried it out and as long as those steps are followed it works as expected.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (fnukyguy)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:03:53 GMT

I love the idea of instrument tracks, less clutter on screen...I dont understand the reason for NOT using instrument tracks, because I can do all the editing I need..What kind of edits can u not do in a instrument track, John?

if I remember correctly the copy/paste bug was fixed in version 8.0.1, but then magically reintroduced in later versions...

If you a bothered with this bug, please report it here http://www.cakewalk.com/S...mReporter/Default.aspx

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (nprime)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:56:25 GMT

The screen (scrine) shot in OP post #4 shows the problem quite clearly.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (John)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:54:10 GMT

they still havent fixed this bug ?? oh my god.... :( How to reproduce this bug : Insert 2 softsynths as simple instrument track. Create some midi-event on each track. Press ctrl+a to hightlick both tracks and event-clips. Then copy clip-events (ctrl+c). Now try to paste it (ctrl+v), destination : starting at track 1. ...As you can see this results in sonar creating new tracks which is not correct. I dont get this bug if I split the instrument tracks and repeat the process...

It has been my understanding that you do not want to edit instruments tracks. It was not meant for that. That is why they can be split up into MIDI and audio tracks. If you want to do things as described you should split them first. Instrument tracks were meant for simple user needs. What you are thinking is a bug is really outside of the use intended for them.

There really is no good reason to use them if you wish to do a lot of editing on them.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Da=man)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:35:26 GMT

fnukyguy

they still havent fixed this bug ?? oh my god.... :(

How to reproduce this bug :

Insert 2 softsynths as simple instrument track.
Create some midi-event on each track.

Press ctrl+a to hightlick both tracks and event-clips. Then copy clip-events (ctrl+c).
Now try to paste it (ctrl+v), destination : starting at track 1. ...As you can see this results in sonar creating new tracks which is not correct.

I dont get this bug if I split the instrument tracks and repeat the process...

So if I'm hearing right it is only when you copy 2 tracks together?

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (fnukyguy)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:05:00 GMT

they still havent fixed this bug ?? oh my god.... :(

How to reproduce this bug :

Insert 2 softsynths as simple instrument track.
Create some midi-event on each track.

Press ctrl+a to hightlick both tracks and event-clips. Then copy clip-events (ctrl+c).
Now try to paste it (ctrl+v), destination : starting at track 1. ...As you can see this results in sonar creating new tracks which is not correct.

I dont get this bug if I split the instrument tracks and repeat the process...

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (papa2005)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:53:37 GMT

ORIGINAL: Polaczek

I do not want to do anything in the multi. I record the midi USB and how to record something, then I want to duplicate the copy, then paste the results in additional duplicate and do not need the path. It seems to me that if something is done, this must be done neatly and accurately, and Sonar 8.5 is more nuanced and pay for it do not need, so ...(?)

This problem is shown in which previously enclosed scrinie. In previous versions feature Instrument Track how to work, now it seems programmers of Cakewalk went on and missed a sitter correct this error, which is really bad shows such great company.

If this post was written in a comprehensible manner it might be possible to assist the OP with his/her problem. " />

If English (American or UK) isn't your primary language you should specify such and make a serious effort to have your problem translated into understandable terms...(Example: I record the midi USB and how to record something, then I want to duplicate the copy, then paste the results in additional duplicate and do not need the path.) Exactly what does that mean???

Amazing, 8.5 has only been out for what, two days?, and already the deluge of "****ing" has begun, probably due more to operator error or system deficiencies than anything else.

If what you want to achieve works in Cubase (as in your original post), why use SONAR at all? Just my 2¢ worth...

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Polaczek)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:21:37 GMT

I do not want to do anything in the multi. I record the midi USB and how to record something, then I want to duplicate the copy, then paste the results in additional duplicate and do not need the path. It seems to me that if something is done, this must be done neatly and accurately, and Sonar 8.5 is more nuanced and pay for it do not need, so ...(?)

This problem is shown in which previously enclosed scrinie. In previous versions feature Instrument Track how to work, now it seems programmers of Cakewalk went on and missed a sitter correct this error, which is really bad shows such great company.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (ChristopherM)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:00:17 GMT

it defaults back to whatever voice is on channel one for the other channels...darn!

Well, I guess you know that Rapture and Dim Pro are not really multi-timbral, so what you can do is limited. When you switch the synth to this quasi-multi-timbral mode (oops - I can already feel Rene getting ready to shoot me down) then the individual elements in the patch (Program in RGC speak) respond separately to their respective MIDI channels. So, to get anything out of this mode, you need to be using a patch that has multiple elements and then use the screwdriver icon to select "Set Program as Multi-timbral". Bear in mind that this is a "per Program" option, so it is saved in the patch (if you save it!) but it does not persist if you subsequently change to a new patch. It works as expected for me, although I have not found much use for it. I must say, I do not know what happens if you try it on a patch that has Elements chained together, so look out for that. HTH.

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (joenj07087)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:32:05 GMT

wow fantastic Chris, I just learn by what you posted how to prepare midi tracks for multimbral softh synth, now if i can figure out how to make for example Rapture or Dim pro act as a multitimbral instrument I'll be set : ) I know you have an option to make it so, but it doesn't work for me for some reason.. I click the option on, but nothing...it defaults back to whatever voice is on channel one for the other channels...darn!

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (ChristopherM)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 05:58:47 GMT

Still when you copy and paste the MIDI tracks,

I'm not sure I follow exactly what you want to achieve, but if I need an extra MIDI track for an inserted instrument (say, because it is multi-timbral), I select the instrument track and use Clone Track from the right-click context menu. This produces a pair of new tracks, so I simply delete the unwanted synth audio track, leaving the original instrument track and a new MIDI track assigned to that instrument. I can then set the MIDI channel parameters of the two remaining tracks as necessary to suit the multi-timbral instrument. Is that what you want to do, or have I missed the point?

I guess you know that if a track is selected (i.e. yellow flag in its top left corner) then Sonar will copy, paste, or delete it along with the current track. That's typically how I accidentally get duplicates - FWIW, it can be most irritating if you accidentally delete an off-screen track this way and don't notice it's gone for some time" />

Re:Sonar 8.5 is still shortcomings on! Defective Instrument Track (Polaczek)

Thu, 17 Sep 2009 05:20:55 GMT

Yes, the path of the copying and pasting are duplicated. I put a link to the Scrin.

Scrin Sonar 8.5