Out of Phase

Re:Out of Phase (Beagle)

Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:07:14 GMT

I agree with what RobertB has written here. in addition - how close are the mics to each other? in order to prevent phase problems when using 2 mics, you should have them 3X the distance apart from each other compared to the distance from them to the source. in other words, if the mics are 1 foot from the dulcimer, they should be 3 feet apart from each other.

Re:Out of Phase (RobertB)

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:56:12 GMT

I've been pondering on this one for a while, and this statement caught my eye today:
"I've got the two mics placed about 2 ft over the top of the dulcimer point mostly straight down."
Do you mean they are hanging vertically above the dulcimer?
If that is the case, I believe you are picking up sound reflected from adjacent walls more than direct sound from the instrument.
This could definitely introduce some phasing issues.
The diaphragms in these mics pick up sound from the side, not the end.
You may want to consider getting some mic stands with booms, so you can accurately position your mics.
Mic placement and orientation can have a dramatic effect when recording accoustic instruments, and a pair of such stands are almost essential.

Re:Out of Phase (vikjohn)

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:11:14 GMT

Another test: I unhooked one mic and placed the remaining mic over the dulcimer, then I plugged into the pickup I have. Recording a left and right channel. Still getting the out of phase issue. When I load the file in Audition the Phase analysis shows the red ball inverted ... hmmm. Not sure what any of this means. I guess my only option is to hit that invert button on Sonar.

Re:Out of Phase (vikjohn)

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:19:25 GMT

Ok... I was at work when I sent this message and copied the wrong mic information. It is a Samson CO1 studio condenser and a AKG perception 100.

Hammered Dulcimer are pretty dynamic instruments and the highs can sound clangy and the hammers can have a thunk sound that is really annoying. I play counter to the lead player and want myself on either side of her. I usually mic from directly over head (like described above); I've recently tried just about every mic placement I could and am still getting the phase problem. It works to use the invert phase button so I guess that is what I'm going to do since I can't get anything else to work. Everything I've read said to fix the problem but I'm at a loss.

The other dulcimer is recording a stereo file and getting a pretty good sound with a Tascam condenser that she paid $50 for ...

I've got a studio person to do the mixing and a master house close by so all I need to do is get a good recording.... sigh. This is not easy.

Any advice I can get will be very welcome. Thanks ... V

Re:Out of Phase (papa2005)

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:33:59 GMT

The USB Samson is most likely the root of your problem. USB mics have built-in "soundcards" and could possibly be introducing clocking issues that conflict with the timing of your "actual" soundcard which will cause phasing issues. I won't even get into mic placement because I don't know the performer or the actual sound you desire.

Re:Out of Phase (jhughs)

Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:16:07 GMT

There is a Phase Invert button on each track. I didn't see which version of SHS you're using but the button looks like an "O" with a slash through it. If you're using SHS7 it's under "Input / Output". You can see it on this link.

Re:Out of Phase (vikjohn)

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:39:29 GMT

I've got the two mics placed about 2 ft over the top of the dulcimer point mostly straight down. 2 large diaphragm condenser mics (C01U USB Samson Condenser & AKG Perception) going into a small Berhringer mixer into a MAudiophile 24/96 card.

Re:Out of Phase (papa2005)

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:32:21 GMT

What mics are you using and what placement configuration? Spaced pair, X/Y, Mid/Side? Are you using an external mixer or going straight into a soundcard? What soundcard are you using?

These are all important questions to be answered in oeder to provide more specific information to help you.

Re:Out of Phase (vikjohn)

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:13:14 GMT

Thanks for the info. I'll have to look at my mic setup. I was told to record a left / right mono instead of one mic and stereo so I have been following that advice. After trying to record a CD I am coming to realize why the big guys get BIG bucks. The learning curve is extremely high ... all I want is to learn how to record the tracks as best I can and let the pros do the mixing and mastering. (Although I secretly want to learn more about mixing :)

Re:Out of Phase (papa2005)

Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:34:40 GMT

"Phasing" issues, in regard to microphones, are relative to mic placement when using more than one microphone. If you have phasing issues on tracks you can sometimes correct them by inverting the phase of one of the mic's tracks. This can be done in SHS. The reason it's important is that when an out-of-phase stereo track is played in mono there can be serious frequency cancellations that affect how the track sounds.

Out of Phase (vikjohn)

Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:55:54 GMT

I"m using SHS to record and edit but have been doing some cleanup in Audition. I'm working with two hammer dulcimers each recorded in a different location. Dulcimer 1 is coming shows up in phase (Cubebase to record) my dulcimer using HS 2 mics (left & right mono). When I bounce to a stereo track and load in Audition mine wav files are showing up out-of-phase. I did some reading and the articles talked about crossed wires etc. so I made sure that is not an issue, did another test and still the same results. Is there something I am missing here?? I can "invert" in Audition but need to know if I can correct this in HS or my setup; how important is this?? (Since I don't even really know what that out-of-phase is?? ) V