SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? UPGRADED to FIASCO

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (Willy Jones [Cakewalk])

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:21:05 GMT

OK - I'd like to clarify a few things and offer an olive branch -

a) Everyone on our support staff is dedicated to solving problems, there are no tickets to close or quotas to fill. A support issue is not considered resolved until the user tells us it is.

b) My explanation to mrfitz does not show that we "don't have any idea how to manage our support activities" - my point was to simply explain that handling email support in the manner he described is not practical for us. At its backbone, our current system is a giant email folder, subject filtered based on product that the appropriate rep handles.

c) Our support staff is not incompetent

d) Our current FAQ is an accurate representation of the most common questions posed to our support team, sure we can make it really long and include everything imaginable and filter it by topic but then we run the risk of it being to overbearing for new users

e) Even if the forum's search tool could read a users mind, new users may not always know what to search for and often times the forum crowd can be pretty unforgiving this of course is still assuming a new user knows where and what the forum is.

f) I had no intention of insulting anyone, and sincerely apologize if I did. My intention was to explain to Mike our initial response, it is very common for us to get requests that lack information for us to troubleshoot and we have no way of knowing how tech saavy a user is. The best of course of action in these cases is to start with the basics and make sure all of the bases are covered

g) We're not outsourcing, having our tech support team in-house is helpful not only for the support team who can go and talk directly to a developer about an issue they can't get to the root of, but also for our development team so they are clearly aware of the issues customers are running into most frequently

h) We're aware that we dropped the ball this time and screwed up pretty badly. We're human and we do make mistakes, even when our brains our fully engaged. We tried to swap a battery (3 embarrassing times in this case) when we needed to be looking at the radiator - now sure we could burn the shop down, all the cars and mechanics inside it as well or we could identify what went wrong why it did, and fix it. Which is what we did/are doing.

Finally the assertion that we don't care about our customers is well, not true we do care - and a lot. Once this issue was brought to our attention we looked into it further, reviewed the correspondence, talked to the support rep and directly reached out to Mike to make amends as well as provide a little further insight as to why he received the responses he did.

If you had a not so positive experience with technical support, I'd like to hear about it and we would like the opportunity to make it up to you.

You can send me a private message

You can email me wjones AT cakewalk DOT com

You can call me: 617-423-9004 x169

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (jackn2mpu)

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:45:35 GMT

This thread and the replies given by Cakewalk personnel along with the total lack of real care in actually helping customers has truly convinced me that like Mike V I won't be buying anymore Cakewalk, or for that matter Roland, product. It seems like no one in charge wants to put in the effort and step out of their comfort zone and put together a class 1 no BS support system for the product they sell. If you (Roland/Cakewalk people) can't or won't do the right thing, why not swallow your overhuge egos and pride and out-source customer support?

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (UnderTow)

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:38:29 GMT

Willy Jones [Cakewalk
]

Hi Everyone,

@Mike, I'm sorry to hear about your issue. Please understand that 99.99999% of serial number & registration related support requests we get are related to a user putting in the registration code incorrectly, mis-spelling it or not entering it at all.

Exaggerating things like this don't look particularly good unless you really were intending to insult some of those customers that might now be reading this.

Anyway, any support engineer worth their salt can easily tell the difference between a user that made such a simple mistake and users that have genuine issues that are more complicated. Of course that does mean engaging the brain when at work.

Before the tech starts digging into the issue we first need to ensure that you are using the correct registration code, else anything after that would be pointless. Its kind of like testing to see if the switch on the vacuum cleaner works, you need to plug the thing in first.

As this thread shows and my own experience confirms, this is not really the issue. The problems with Cakewalk support go much deeper.

RE: more user friendly system - I have mentioned this in another thread somewhere but this will be coming soon you will be able to review all of your correspondence and support history (both phone & email) online. We are aware of the limitations of the current system in place, however for now it is the only way to ensure that we can help you.

That is good to read but I hope that Cakewalk realize that what they need from their support team is a dedication to solving problems. Not just closing tickets. Many support managers and support staff don't quite get the distinction.

@mrfitz - public email address - we've done this in the past it just becomes a giant spam collection bin and legitimate support requests get lost with junk. The other problem is that our volume of support requests is way to high to be adequately managed in a mailbox.

Oh yes, Cakewalk will clearly have much larger support volumes compared to MCI/Worldcom. I have worked for companies much larger than Cakewalk (and maybe even larger than MCI but I'm not sure) that could easily handle a single support address. This only shows that Cakewalk don't have any idea how to manage their support activities.

Hire someone to advise you. Set up a library of video tutorials. (With high quality video. No cheap YouTube non-sense). Get some decent forum software so that people can actually search the forum for answers. (Yes I know about using Google to search the forum, that isn't the point). Setup a proper FAQ (28 entries in the Sonar FAQ? You must be joking!)

The only reason Cakewalk support can't handle the "volume" is because Cakewalk support is incompetent. I suggest you start with the FAQ. That should be the easiest.

RE: live chat support - This is something we have considered, however the hours would be the same and if we turned it on today, hold times and email response times would suffer so its not a path we can explore just yet.

You need to hire extra people then. Of course they first need to be trained but it seems necessary.

My apologies again for the inconveniences Mike. Alternatively you can get phone support from your local Cakewalk distributor, in your case Roland Australia if skype is not an option or if our hours don't work for you.

Does Cakewalk support have Skype? That should be cheaper for everyone. Still, that doesn't address the issues like this one where the support persons clearly were more interested in reaching some quota than actually helping the user.

UnderTow

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:08:12 GMT

I appreciate you chiming in Willy.

You've given me an explanation for the first reply I received.
What explains the next replies except a total lack of comprehension and "this guys too difficult I'll palm him off to Customer Support".

Anyways its all words and I've heard too many of them that are of no help at all. I've had enough. Cakewalk have lost a good customer because I'll not ever buy another Cakewalk product.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (The Maillard Reaction)

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:25:45 GMT

Hi Willy, if you guys want to see how not to do it... go check out the MOTU techlink system... it has virtually guaranteed that I will never spend another penny on MOTU gear. :-)

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (Willy Jones [Cakewalk])

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:07:27 GMT

Hi Everyone,

@Mike, I'm sorry to hear about your issue. Please understand that 99.99999% of serial number & registration related support requests we get are related to a user putting in the registration code incorrectly, mis-spelling it or not entering it at all. Before the tech starts digging into the issue we first need to ensure that you are using the correct registration code, else anything after that would be pointless. Its kind of like testing to see if the switch on the vacuum cleaner works, you need to plug the thing in first.

RE: more user friendly system - I have mentioned this in another thread somewhere but this will be coming soon you will be able to review all of your correspondence and support history (both phone & email) online. We are aware of the limitations of the current system in place, however for now it is the only way to ensure that we can help you.

@mrfitz - public email address - we've done this in the past it just becomes a giant spam collection bin and legitimate support requests get lost with junk. The other problem is that our volume of support requests is way to high to be adequately managed in a mailbox.

RE: live chat support - This is something we have considered, however the hours would be the same and if we turned it on today, hold times and email response times would suffer so its not a path we can explore just yet.

My apologies again for the inconveniences Mike. Alternatively you can get phone support from your local Cakewalk distributor, in your case Roland Australia if skype is not an option or if our hours don't work for you.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mrfitz)

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:11:34 GMT

bitflipper

BTW, having worked tech support myself I can tell you that there is a good reason for imposing that awkward limitation of not being able to reply directly. Some users, once they get hold of your direct email address, will circumvent the reporting process and start emailing you unrelated questions. Some will become real pests. I know this from firsthand experience on the other end of that phone.

From '97 until '03 I worked for ANS/MCI/Worldcom in their network operations center. We had universal address that used a shared support mailbox that was based on pine that could be run by multiple users concurrently, it allowed the person working an email issue to mark the email so everyone else could tell they were working it, it gave the customer an address where they could send non-critical issues for resolution, and it gave me, as the manager, a way to have oversight to ensure that things were being resolved within a couple emails. It also had the ability to paste the email into the actual trouble ticket ( every email got a ticket, even if it was "What time is it?" ), so we could search the ticketing DB for similar issues.

I just say this to point out that there are ways to provide email support that will allow the back and forth that is required. If they want to take the time to do it.

"Support@cakewalk.com" anyone?

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (jackn2mpu)

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:51:59 GMT

Reading this thread I see people talk about calling tech support. Fair enough, if you're in the US, or don't mind hanging on hold and the long distance charges if you're outside the US. Use Skype some say - fair enough again, except both parties have to have Skype. What people don't take into account is the time difference between the States and anywheres overseas, especially for someone like Mike who's in Aussie land and is anywheres from 12 to 13 hours off US Eastern time. Makes for a heck of a diference - Mike would have to be phoning in the middle of the night his time to reach someone at Cake in the middle of the day.

That's why decent email support with a ticket system is the way things must (not should) be.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:31:41 GMT

Thanks for your support guys.

I have it sorted now. There was a windows Defender update that I installed only I didn't quite see the ramifications at the time. Rolling back the update and using system resote didn't work either. Even though I have a backup image I didn't want to resort to that as I'd hoped to find the culprit for future reference.

The fix was easy. I just did an install of SONAR x64 over the top (ie I didn't uninstall it first) and that has fixed whatever problem was causing the reactivation request. The interesting thing was I didn't have to put in my serial number or registration key. Just goes to show.

So my SONAR is working again; both versions OK but I guess it'll take more than a reinstall to get Cakewalk to work again.

I really hate this. Pity the poor schmuck who couldn't have fixed it and really had to rely on Tech Support.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (jb)

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:38:33 GMT

. you would think having purchased all this expense stuff that it would some how entitle us to special treatment.

$400; expensive? Entitled? All in one sentence? Really?

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? UPGRADED to FIASCO (lorneyb2)

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:45:09 GMT

Looking at the date your problem started it coincides with the JBRIDGE update I received and recall seeing something similar with the 29 days remaining and then not being able to restart sonar. What I did was start in safe mode(shift key) and then I dumped some of my plugins(Independance player) and resaved the project and it worked fine after that. I had already frozen the synths so it really wasn't a problem. I' m not sure if this is what your problem is but that 29 day thing is what tweaked for me and the only thing I had done was the Jbridge update. I had been working in sonar, did the update and came right back in so was sure it was directly related to that.

Good Luck

Lorne

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? UPGRADED to FIASCO (John)

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:46:18 GMT

Mike I am really sorry for what you have had to put up with to get a simple answer to your problem. I have no answer except to let you know I am in your corner on this. Perhaps I could intercede on your behalf by calling CW tomorrow with your problem. Surely this wont take specific instructions that can't be given to me to pass along to you. I don't mind giving you a call when I have an answer or setup a time for CW to call you. We should be able to figure out a way to get this fixed. You can PM me as to how you want me to proceed.

Let me know what you want me to do.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? UPGRADED to FIASCO (daveny5)

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:25:58 GMT

My guess is that it has to do with you running the 64-bit and 32-bit versions on the same machine. I'd uninstall one of them and get the other to work.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:50:22 GMT

Update to Cakewalk Tech support fiasco:

2nd email from Cakewalk Tech Support contained the suggestion I try running SONAR as an administrator even though in my first request for help I had included that I had tried this already.

Then I sent all my details again with the responses I had received and this morning
I recieved the straw that broke the camel's back,

Hi Michael,

Thank you for writing back. I apologize for the confusion. Please contact our Customer Service Department via phone at 1-888-CAKEWALK or email with the webform located here www.cakewalk.com/about/csr.asp for further help with product registration.

Its official: I've been fobbed off.

I intend to collect all the emails concerning this exchange print them out and send them to the parent company ROLAND. I will also send copies to Cakewalk head Office.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (ChristopherM)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:10:30 GMT

asked a very clear question and received a reply that was only vaguely relevant to the question asked.

So, it failed your impromptu Turing test, eh? Maybe Cakewalk has re-located Tech Support to a call centre based in a Low-cost Country, then.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (UnderTow)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:38:43 GMT

mudgel

smoochy:

The email was a noreply@cakewalk.com

Aah! Nor Eply helped you. He's isn't very good is he? :)

I have long given up on Cakewalk tech support. Every time I have contacted them I have had to conclude that I knew more about Sonar than the person "helping" me. That is when they didn't plain stop responding. As far as I am concerned Cakewalk has no technical support.

UnderTow

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:05:59 GMT

Skype is not the issue. Cakewalk's abominable email Tech Support is. They stipulate the various means by which to communicate with their customers so its up to them to delliver.

Not interested sitting on hold even if the per minute rates are more reasonable. Been there done that waiting for a return call that never comes.

I use Skype but you have to remember its only free if the other party has Skype too.

Maybe I shoould send them an email to ask that they get connected to Skype to save overseas callers some money. But they'd have to put on more staff to cope with the flood of calls. Haven't you read the threads about poor response to phone calls from local US customers.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (evansmalley)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:51:13 GMT

I do feel your pain but I think an "old person perspective" might help. We used to walk 5 miles to school in the winter. Actually that's true, though meant as a joke!

When gear used to break down, like a tape machine- we had to unhook everything, physically take it into the shop, pay a LOT of money, be down for a couple of weeks and by doing that a couple times I learned to just let it go. Being able to let go of technical stresses is one of the greatest gifts that life has ever taught me. It's the most directly functional tip that you'll ever get!

Having said that, just break down and pay for the dang phone call from Australia... it's lots cheaper than fixing a 24-track! After waiting for way too long, I think Cake phone support is fantastic- especially compared to many others.

Ever call Avid? Holy crap, it's really scary!

Stuff takes time and costs money... coming to peace with that can possibly help everyone's enjoyment-of-life! It's so much cheaper and quicker now than it ever was before-

just a thought-
Ev

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (simonknight)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:17:39 GMT

mudgel

Seeing as I'm a gentleman, I'll reply within the Cakewalk Forum TOS;

and say nothing.

To Stone House:

Couldn't have said it better myself. So I didn't.

So you're not willing to use a cheap method to call tech support? Have you fixed your problem yet?

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:53:00 GMT

That's what I mean:
I've dealt with many software and hardware companies where you log a problem you get a ticket. When your ticket is updated you get an email. Logon check what's been updated in your ticket make a reply, even upload a file or a pic to help with your issue. The system notifies the tech; they make another comment you get notified. and so the loop goes. When your pronlem's been solved you check a box and the ticket is closed and archived,

I'm interested in getting the support service that buying according to Cakewalk "the leading DAW software in the world should be delivering not what we get now. Cakewalk a company that lays claim to having sold more than 1 million software units around the world.

With the continual complaints about customer and tech support you'd reckon they'd update their systems. And its not like the software to do it all isn't out there. What on earth has the increased ownership by Roland brought about? They don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Just go look at the IK Multimedia site, Native instruments, Toontrack to name just a few. These are all companies that Cakewalk deal with as 3rd party developers. Their websites are exemplary and are what people come to expect. Truly the Cakewalk experience is abit like a shiny bauble out front with cavemen using chisels and stone behind the scenes. Man I'm angry at this level of disservice. I love to tell people about SONAR the software but I dread that they might have to deal with such poor support sevices that they don't really take it seriously. I mean at the developer level I'm amazed at the level of effort that Noel and Nrandon et al give directly to and via this forum to the user base. Take eratu recently with all his work to move to 64 bit. Cakewalk at that level work hard but I fear its just those dedicated individuals and that its not typical of the Cakewalk culture. Rather their good effort and names are impugned by being connected with such 2nd rate support services.

Anyway this post should be closed before I say one thing too many and get banned. I think I'll change the thread title to closed.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (smoochy)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:17:14 GMT

yes i agree... you would think having purchased all this expense stuff that it would some how entitle us to special treatment... petty or not. there should be no assumptions that we are all computer programmers. and there should be no question too small to answer. at our convenience not theirs. after all it's because of us... the end users... that they are in business in the first place. i personally feel that they have done their best to accommodate me... but that's just me. and ya... when I'm in the middle of something i wish there was a more direct service.... i think live teck sites would be outstanding. i'm sure that a big time studio doesn't have to stand in line to get answers and a company like Roland\Cakewalk certainly makes more money than ssl or neve. so lets do it... live online tek support cakewalk... just supply your serial number and password and boom... instant help. man what a concept

to add to this... i was recently having an issue with an on line store. they had an email thing to submit that didn't ask for anything other than my password and the number i could be reached at... i swear before i even got out of the browser the phone was ringing.... couldn't have been more than one minute. it was them... and you know what.... iv'e had to do it on more than one occasion... with the same result....couldn't believe it. man what service... never mind they actually fixed the problem. that was amazon.com

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:10:04 GMT

smoochy:

The email was a noreply@cakewalk.com

I was given a link to Tech Support page where you get to fill in a form. I didn't get any Ticket or reference number as some have suggested so I don't really know what to do other than repeat my request with the added info that the first suggestions were the problem I was stating not the solution.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:04:38 GMT

bent4life:
I don't want to have a relationship nor build one. I want a reasonable answer to my question.
Not be fobbed off.

I tell someone that entering my Registration Code isn't working and they send me another copy of my registration code. I tell them that I have the 32bit and 64 bit versions of the same program running on the same OS and one of them is throwing up an unexpected error message I don't expect to get an email with my registration code in it with the idea that this could somehow fix my problem. What did the person think I was entering at the request from the software. This wasn't during installation. I told them that it was a fully activated installation that had been running without problem for some time.

Even if that is the standard first line response there is no Ticket number nothing and for further communication I have to go through it all again with nothing to quote as a reference and so go I'd need to go through it all again; filling out a useless tech support email that doesn't even generate a ticket number; nothing.

I've had sales after service from an emplyee at Cakewalk but only ever got that degree of support because I could email them directly after she emailed in connection with a customer service request I had. On those occassions I praised Cakewalk to the hilt for their efforts. I really think it was just this one emplyee though not the whole organisation. Sadly she's no longer there or has become anonymous behind the new Cakewalk.But as for this:

If an organisation wants to protect itself from me by creating obstacles to communication more than help me then well I guess I am on my own. I'll take the support from this forum any day.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (Fret Wizz)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:38:30 GMT

The software is top notch, A1, 100% world class.

The marketing & support is 2nd rate, sub par,
to the point of being embarrassing.

It's sad but true.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (smoochy)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:42:37 GMT

what i do is hang onto the email the specific tek sent me for whatever issue..... then i simply forward it to him with my new issue. been using the same one for ever... that way it gets right to him... and he already knows all the other issues i've had and what system bla bla bla... i'm not sure but doesn't every area have it's own local contact? so no long distance and stuff like that there? that's how it is hear but i'm not there am i? i could be there... or maybe over there... where the hell am i.........

unfortunately you have to have a bit of a repore with the guy before this can happen... like bitfipper says... people take advantage of your generosity. but i found that actually talking with the teks live they take my emails more seriously.

personally... i hate using emails... it's like firing a shot into the sky and hoping it lands where you wanted it to. much prefer talking on the phone in person.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (bent4life)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:36:40 GMT

I think bitflipper's advice here is valid. I had the same experience with the first email I received from them - standard answering machine-type stuff that didn't really answer the question. Then I persisted because that didn't fix the problem. I addressed my next mail to the person who initially responded by using their name. After that the relationship got better and it reached the point where I resolved the issues. Now I generally do what Audiomax does and use the forums.

If you look at some of the wackier rants that appear in this forum - calls to arms with Cakewalk as the enemy - it doesn't surprise me that they approach tech questions and their interlocutors with caution. I actually found that the level of support was good compared to other companies. Not super fast but decent and genuine. But maybe I've learned to lower my expectations.

Good luck with it. Hunter Valley, hey? Crack open a bottle of red and relax.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (Audiomax)

Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:49:05 GMT

Personally I don't bother with CW tech support they're usually asleep at the wheel. I learnt my lesson years ago and rely on info on this forum (and others) and my own knowledge/ intuition. I've never had an issue I couldn't resolve myself.

Apart from obvious bugs and new version issues a lot of its just doing the research and thinking ahead so you don't create problems for yourself, lateral thinking and a patient process of elimination go a long way too.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (mudgel)

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:36:28 GMT

Seeing as I'm a gentleman, I'll reply within the Cakewalk Forum TOS;

and say nothing.

To Stone House:

Couldn't have said it better myself. So I didn't.

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (Stone House Studios)

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:15:12 GMT

simonknight

mudgel

Calling them from Australia is not an option.

Get Skype

Get Real

Re:SONAR Tech Support: What is going on? (simonknight)

Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:07:37 GMT

mudgel

Calling them from Australia is not an option.

Get Skype