Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ?

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (RAR)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:04:12 GMT

I have Studio Logic SL-880 Pro, and a UC-33e I use with P5.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (ba_midi)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:55:08 GMT

My currrent setup for both P5 and Sonar is:

Keystation 88 Pro (I love this baby, and LOTS of knobs/faders/programmability);
Radium 61 (not a piano feel at all, but great for techno/dance stuff, and nice size with lots of knobs);
Trigger Finger (just got it, love it too).

I have lots of other external synths I ocassionally used to use, but don't need to these days.

ORIGINAL: Nick Haddad [Cakewalk]

What a question. Wrench is right, I'm a big fan of the USB midi controller. Here are some favorites

1) Edirol PCR-30 and PRC-50, i have both of these. But, the PCR-M30 and PCR-M50 are even better. They have the same high quality synth action as Roland's Phantom keyboards and are very nice feeling. Plus they are charcoal colored, which is the next silver " />

2) The Korg Kontrol49 is really really cool, nice velocity sensative pads, and a pretty good editor from what I've heard.

3) The Evolution UC-33 is excellent too if you just need a knob box.

4) If you got the money for it the M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 is also really cool. It's a nice hammer action keyboard with a bunch of knobs and sliders. You are basically getting a pretty good keyboard, a UC-33, and a bunch of sliders for around $500.

Of course if I had infinite funds I would purchase all of these controllers.

Wrench...I know...I have a problem " />

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (LouTheBlueGuru)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:33:50 GMT

One thing about the PCR-50 that can be said is that there dumping them on the cheap since they are to be replaced by the PCRM-xx series. Musicians Enemy is dumping them at half price ($150).

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (b rock)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:44:38 GMT

I'm actually dying to figure out how to use the afterglow, er, aftertouch on the many synths. I found a control on the Pentagon, but that's it so far.

Here's a few suggestions for starters: Open the MIDI Matrix in Dimension, and you'll get lost using channel aftertouch as a source for the many destinations. Most all of the programs are configured to use AT by default. One example: check out the Twelve Strings Guitar (or most any of the other guitar) preset for a subtle enhanced detuning using the Pitch LFO Depth in one of the two Elements.

It's a similar situation in Z3ta+, with more flexibility of control in the Modulation Matrix. Select ChanAft is in the Control section, the destinations are dealer's choice, and you have the added enhancements of curves, sources, and the range 'sliders'. In PSYN, you can control the LFOs with AT [leave the static Depth slider at 0], and bump up the Control [After] and Modulation Depth of a selected destination. In the DS864, there's a similar setup: In the LFOs, bump up the Aft knobs, leave the depth at zero, and select a destination to control with AT.

In 2.01, you can now see and edit the channel aftertouch messages that were always recorded 'invisibly' in V2. So now you have the option to create AT automation curves (even with the mouse), or edit your perfomances to fine-tune and smooth out the AT messages. You can even separate a channel AT message from one pattern, and apply it to another performance. This was the best part of the 2.01 update for me.

Don't forget to use AT in the pressure-sensitive pads of the Trigger Finger to override/augment your Remote performances. Remember that channel aftertouch sends one value for all of your key presses combined. That value usually defaults to the highest value (hardest individual key pressed) of all the keys activated.

I hope that'll get you started. [Edit: How could I have neglected to include using AT as a Control Source for most anything P5 in MIDI Remote Control?]

a $400 ReMOTE is a far cry from a red Porsche and running off with a 25-year old, so I figure I got some wiggle room here.

I don't see why you can't have them all, although if something had to give, I could do without the Porsche. Impractical for swamp-dwelling ...

Send off the tutorials.

They're not completed as yet, but I wanted to see how you felt about this first. I haven't talked to you since before the NY trip, so I didn't just want to dump these attachments on you. But as soon as I've tested everything myself, you'll be the next one to try them out. Thanks for agreeing to this, Brad. Your feedback is always well thought out, very informative & helpful to me, and just plain fun to read.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Bradster)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:53:08 GMT

You b-rock, evil? Nah. An enabler for sure, but never evil. You're not pushing me into gear that I wouldn't necessarily buy on my own -- although you do help to justify the purchase! And help to understand it better.

Another recent epiphany: this re-entry into the music world (along with initial foray into creating E.M.) qualifies as my mid-life crisis. It has crossed the line from mere hobby and headed towards full on obsession. That said, a $400 ReMOTE is a far cry from a red Porsche and running off with a 25-year old, so I figure I got some wiggle room here. " />

I already upgraded the O/S (tip: don't have P5 or SONAR running when you do this!), assigned some controllers, and did my very first split (tip: you have to disengage the MIDI override on the P5 track in order for this to work!). On day 2, I started in with the X-Y. All of this was quite straightfoward and instantly fulfilling. A whole different ball game than the initial TF/Enigma experience. M-Audio should hire or rent Novation's software guys and tech writers. For starters.

Thanks for the offer on beta testing the tutorials. I'd be honored. I feel like I'm not carrying my load here lately, what with everyone going hog wild on the wiki. P5Kool if there ever was.

Don't know about the Space Truckin' thing, but I got the buzz thing down pat!

Send off the tutorials. I'm actually dying to figure out how to use the afterglow, er, aftertouch on the many synths. I found a control on the Pentagon, but that's it so far.

B'ster

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (b rock)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:47:48 GMT

I made the mistake of auditioning a Novation ReMOTE. Love at first (after)touch.

Bradster, I'm starting to feel like an evil influence. I know that you're going to fall hard for that Novation. There's a 2.3 O/S now, an April MIDI driver, and a brand new version of the Remote Editor out now. Grab 'em: these have really matured from the 1.x versions. Did you get the Learn preferences d/l?

Let me ask a favor: I wonder if you'd consider beta-testing some of the more complex tutorial clusters that I have in the works. Our setups contain many of the same elements, and I was hoping that you could flush out the errors before I upload. I'll return the favor with some sets of made-to-order templates if you'd like, or something that you'd value more.

One tutorial group exploits some unique qualities found in a Novation, the Trigger Finger, and a left-hand M-Audio [any model]. This gives me a good excuse to include the companion Novation and TF templates. It involves the new V2 features and Dimension, and (of course) utilizes the 2.01 aftertouch inclusion.

Something to try with the X/Y: mix up the X/Y types on each axis, like No Spring for Y on a Cutoff, and Spring Center or Left on X for pitchbend. Each setting offers some great options [especially for guitarists/synthesists], and it''s programmable per-template. Then there's the tricks with the Step value for CC#s, and the keyboard splits, and the dedicated MIDI channel buttons, and the ...

Your suggestion about using a smaller board off the side worked out better than I had anticipated.

I'm a crusader when it comes to this. Configurable by template or MIDI channel as individual KB's; one large KB; anything between. Slide that Trigger Finger between the two, and suddenly your KB technique resembles Jon Lord with a good buzz on.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Bradster)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:01:30 GMT

Hey guys,

I didn't mean to dis on the PCR, mine has served me quite well! While I could never be acused of being a piano player, I had the need for more than 2 1/2 octaves at once. And the feel of both the PCRM's and the Novation (along with the aftertouch) was just a huge leap forward.

By all means, go with what you've got!

B'ster

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:51:30 GMT

ORIGINAL: pwal

I'm using a lowly PCR30 (keys, buttons, knobs, sliders, air) as I'm not the piano man. Does me.

p

Actually the PCR30 makes a very nice controller for P5. Not so "lowly". " /> I've used one on tours and events quite a bit.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (pwal)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:38:38 GMT

I'm using a lowly PCR30 (keys, buttons, knobs, sliders, air) as I'm not the piano man. Does me.

p

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (ucacjbs)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:37:01 GMT

ORIGINAL: Bradster

Only problem is that the left hand gets jealous of the Novation's action. " />

Well that's why the make the Remote 25, right? <g>

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Bradster)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:32:54 GMT

While in Robotspeak a couple of weeks ago, I made the mistake of auditioning a Novation ReMOTE. Love at first (after)touch. After sitting on the idea for a couple of days, I broke down and ordered a 49. It was waiting for me when I returned, as if to say "welcome home". (I was also sick of waiting for the M-Audio Keystation on perpetual back order). Sweetwater is running a promotion with a Novation bag and the Bass Station VSTi thrown in for free with any of the ReMOTEs. Too good to pass up.

The 49 seems to be the sweet spot here (no pun). At $100 more than the 25 you get 2x as many keys. The next tier up, the 61, only offers another measly octave for yet another $100.

I also tried out the PCRM-xx series and I agree with Brandon's take on them. Definitely a big step up from the air organ action of the initial PCR's. If you can't spring for Novation, this is a good second.

The programming interface is head and shoulders above anything that M-Audio has put out. I was creating custom templates and even updating the O/S within 15 mins. The manual is also first rate. 60 pages of all English, with very in-depth detail about CC's, SysEx, MMC, and how to configure the board to send them. No "b-rock, help!" pleas necessary. This X-Y touchpad is gonna be fun.

My only squawk is that the product descriptions list "SONAR" and something called "Project" under Cakewalk for included templates, but I can only find SONAR 2 templates in the included set. Once again, P5 seems to be the poor cousin and we're stuck rolling our own. Don't tell the Supreme Court.

Oh, and b-rock: Your suggestion about using a smaller board off the side worked out better than I had anticipated. (I know, at this point I should know better than to question your advice!). The PCR-30 works nicely as a lower octave input. Only problem is that the left hand gets jealous of the Novation's action. " />

Bradster

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (ucacjbs)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:03:02 GMT

Hi Henry,

I'm pretty confident that you'll like the Remote a lot. Happy shopping!

ben

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (hbartlet@bigfoot.com)

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:24:11 GMT

Wow! "Easy" is an understatement. You just turned my last concerns about the Remote 25 into "I want one now!" and I expect it won't be long as they seem somewhat common on eBay.

Thanks for your help... -Henry

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (techead)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:51:56 GMT

" /> Yeah....uhm....Greg? " />

Maybe get him a donut to grease the skids... " />

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:51:12 GMT

ORIGINAL: ucacjbs

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

" /> OMG....thx for the heads up B.

This thing looks really slick...oh man now what do I do....what do I do....? I have to say, I really want one of these. Maybe I need a triple-manual setup:

PCRM80
Remote 61
Kontrol49

I could put them all around me and go all prog-rock! " />

I think you forgot the cape and the large castle in Cornwall <g>.

ROTFL " />

And maybe a perm or something...

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:49:56 GMT

ORIGINAL: techead

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
This thing looks really slick...oh man now what do I do....what do I do....? I have to say, I really want one of these. Maybe I need a triple-manual setup:

PCRM80
Remote 61
Kontrol49

I could put them all around me and go all prog-rock! " />

Given the rave reviews everyone is logging for your presentations I'm sure yer boss will get you all those--especially if it helps sell software, right? " />

" /> Yeah....uhm....Greg? " />

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:48:50 GMT

ORIGINAL: b rock

I could put them all around me and go all prog-rock!
Let's complicate things even further. Here's my suggestion: get two PCR-M1's, and two Novation Remote25's. Sacrifice the Korg Kontrol49 for a Trigger Finger, and go all b-rock instead. Five unique controllers that can be configured as one huge controller, five separate ones, or any combination in-between. It's not a keyboard stack per se; more like an Array.

An array....ahhhh.

I wonder of I could control ICBM's or GPS satellites with this setup? " />

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Jim Wright)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:48:40 GMT

Original: b rock

Let's complicate things even further. Here's my suggestion: get two PCR-M1's, and two Novation Remote25's. Sacrifice the Korg Kontrol49 for a Trigger Finger, and go all b-rock instead. Five unique controllers that can be configured as one huge controller, five separate ones, or any combination in-between. It's not a keyboard stack per se; more like an Array.

Even better: it's a Blissfully Redundant Orchestra of Capable Keyboards -- a B ROCK!

- Jim

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (ucacjbs)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:31:07 GMT

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

" /> OMG....thx for the heads up B.

This thing looks really slick...oh man now what do I do....what do I do....? I have to say, I really want one of these. Maybe I need a triple-manual setup:

PCRM80
Remote 61
Kontrol49

I could put them all around me and go all prog-rock! " />

I think you forgot the cape and the large castle in Cornwall <g>.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (techead)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:03:54 GMT

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
This thing looks really slick...oh man now what do I do....what do I do....? I have to say, I really want one of these. Maybe I need a triple-manual setup:

PCRM80
Remote 61
Kontrol49

I could put them all around me and go all prog-rock! " />

Given the rave reviews everyone is logging for your presentations I'm sure yer boss will get you all those--especially if it helps sell software, right? " />

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (b rock)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:34:12 GMT

I could put them all around me and go all prog-rock!

Let's complicate things even further. Here's my suggestion: get two PCR-M1's, and two Novation Remote25's. Sacrifice the Korg Kontrol49 for a Trigger Finger, and go all b-rock instead. Five unique controllers that can be configured as one huge controller, five separate ones, or any combination in-between. It's not a keyboard stack per se; more like an Array.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:19:25 GMT

ORIGINAL: b rock

Also, the Novation Remote 25 controller has an excellent feel...I've always thought they had the best feeling keyboards ... I just wish they'd make a "Remote 61".
Psst! Hey Brandon. They do. Look in here..

IMO, the 2.3 drivers and the template editor [Novation] are great and better-than average, respectively.

" /> OMG....thx for the heads up B.

This thing looks really slick...oh man now what do I do....what do I do....? I have to say, I really want one of these. Maybe I need a triple-manual setup:

PCRM80
Remote 61
Kontrol49

I could put them all around me and go all prog-rock! " />

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (b rock)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:13:40 GMT

Also, the Novation Remote 25 controller has an excellent feel...I've always thought they had the best feeling keyboards ... I just wish they'd make a "Remote 61".

Psst! Hey Brandon. They do. Look in here..

IMO, the 2.3 drivers and the template editor [Novation] are great and better-than average, respectively.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (Brandon Ryan [Roland])

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:00:02 GMT

ORIGINAL: Fullmoon

Thanks so much

I've got a decent list of keyboards to check out. The new Edirol PCMR-30 & -50 mentioned is worthy...many others. I'm not a keyboardist the 32-50 key range will work. I like the having the extra controllers that can work with P5 & Sonar 4. Going to Atlanta next week...I'll probably return home with a new toy.

David

I just replaced my PCR50 with a PCRM80 and I really love it. The keys feel way better now and it has 61 keys which I've been missing for quite some time. Also, I checked out the new Korg Control49 and man it looks perfect for P5. Have to say that thing got me thinking...if it only had 61 keys I'd put one in the studio no doubt. Lately I've been using a PCR1 for triggering grooves and controlling the P5 arp and using the PCRM80 for playing synths and tweaking parameters. This is a nice combo. The better feel on the new PCR's REALLY makes a difference if you are a player...my takes are much better now. Also, the Novation Remote 25 controller has an excellent feel...I've always thought they had the best feeling keyboards ever since I played a Supernova II. I just wish they'd make a "Remote 61".

One thing I love about the Edirol controllers is that the drivers are just plain rock solid...install them once (version 1.0 in most cases) and they just work...I've plugged three PCR's into P5 before with no problems and no extra driver install or anything. This is one thing I've always liked about the Edirol controllers. I can't comment on the Korg or Novation drivers as I haven't used them yet. They sure look nice though....

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (b rock)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:47:42 GMT

Do you know if you can reverse the action of the sliders on the Remote 25 in order to set them to drawbar mode so that they can be used with virtual tonewheel organs like Native Instruments' B4?

Easy-peasy. Just move one of the sliders, and press the Edit button. Page up to the Low Value screen, and change the 0 value to 127 with the Data knob. The next page is the High Value: change it from 127 to 0. Repeat this for the other seven sliders. Save your template, and you're done.

It's an even simpler process in the Remote Editor. Just click on each slider in succession, change the values as above, and send it to your Remote. I was one of the original Remote25 owners nagging Novation for a template editor. It took a year or so, but I'm very happy with the results. One of those things that makes life easy ...

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (hbartlet@bigfoot.com)

Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:09:06 GMT

Hi,

Do you know if you can reverse the action of the sliders on the Remote 25 in order to set them to drawbar mode so that they can be used with virtual tonewheel organs like Native Instruments' B4?

Thanks... -Henry

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (ZuN)

Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:45:59 GMT

I hear you harmony its a nice keyboard!. i still use my kurzweil K2vx as my controller, tho ill probably get a unit that has extra knobs to go along with it, or a whole new controller.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (harmony gardens)

Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:20:07 GMT

I still use my old DX7 as a controller. Talk about a roadworthy board. It logged 1000's of miles in a nylon case with no problems. I bought it new in 1984, and it's never been in for repairs once.

There are a few limitations,,, it only sends output on channel 1 and doesn't go to 127, only 64 patch changes, but it has a lot of great CC's. Sustain, Pitch bend, Mod wheel, Aftertouch, Volume, Breath control,(I don't have that anymore, a cat got the cord on mine) and the data entry slider can be used.

The action on a DX7 is superb, too. I've seen them used for $150. It's worth consideration anyway.

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (ZuN)

Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:38:01 GMT

ouch $125 now im scared of taking in my korg to get its contact repaired

RE: Which Keyboard Controller for P5 ? (MurderDethKill)

Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:31:21 GMT

ORIGINAL: b rock

Dusty environment, or did it take a hit? The first two things that came to mind were dirty contacts, or a hairline crack in the circuit board traces.

sorry i didn't get back sooner b-rock, i bought the PCR-50 in July '03, still have the case and original styrofoam packing, etc.
Never have dropped it, don't allow smoking in the studio, and i keep it clean with a soft dry cloth (no abrassive cleaners, just abrasive synth lines...)
ahh well, such is life.
" />
BTW i called my local authorised Roland repair guy and he said the exam/labor fee at $85
and to replace the contacts @ $10 an octave- at 4 octaves= $40 for a total of $125. (excl. tax)
idunno" />" />" /> IDTIW...WDYT? I mean that's half the dang cost