JohnKenn
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screwed again
Sorry if I misinterpreted this but, did anyone else get the "Dear Valued Waves User" email from Waves regarding GTR Solo and several previous versions of Waves?
Deja Vu again for me, just a different company this time. Another reason why I love online activation schemes where the company controls your rights to use a program after the sale.
Email started with the familiar excuses about old software and no longer being able to support it. After July 31, everything is going to be shut down though they assure the program will continue to function on whatever computer it is currently activated on.
Not a big loss with about $40 invested and not a great program, but terminating any further activation or transfers was not a part of the original sales pitch. They didn't include GTR full version. Maybe it's harder to sabotage an ILock.
I don't know a lot about the company but there is a concern. Going away from ILock to online registration may not be a good thing if they start pulling this crap at random to force sales.
They were not entirely cold about it. I got a special coupon code for a 10% discount if I upgrade to something that can be authorized. Maybe they'll let the upgrade function for a year or two.
John,
No response from my email to the company
My response...
It took less than a minute to fire up Frostwire and another minute to download the crack/keygen. Works well. Looks like I can just ignore the extortion email.
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Rain
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/28 13:38:53
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I didn't receive the e-mail, but I'm running GTR Full, V9.
This is what I've found on Waves web site.
July 17th, 2012, As of July 31st, Waves will discontinue product support for versions 3, 4, and 5 (as well as GTR Solo Versions 6, 7 and 8).
Although these versions have not been “officially” supported for quite some time, we have continued to provide downgrade options, compatibility information, tech support and so on, but after so many years it is no longer possible to support outdated and/or discontinued operating systems, DAWs, plugin formats and the like., These installers will remain on our website for download until the end of the month, and your version 3/4/5 product will continue to work on your current system as is, however any further support will no longer be available after July 31st., You may update your product to the latest version (V9) at any time by renewing your Waves Update Plan, or upgrading to a bigger bundle (and receive V9 at no additional charge.)
Over the years, we have added new plugins to many bundles, and with Waves V9, it’s easier than ever to manage your plugin licenses., To renew your Waves Update Plan, access your Waves account and select Get Waves Update Plan from the top menu. Once your Waves Update Plan is current, an Update link will appear next to your product. Learn more about updating to V9., To upgrade to a bigger bundle, click the Upgrade link next to your product in your Waves account, and all your upgrade options and prices will be displayed., All Wavesupport News
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JohnKenn
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/28 20:36:07
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Rain, This was similar in content to the email I got. Will be cyber condemned to the brimstone pit for resorting to warez cracks. Not legal, but got the contingency in place with a clean conscience from this end. Waves tactics may be legally supported in the fine print of the end user contract, but goes against the gut instinct of what is right and Hindu moral. Usually don't buy software with the agreement that they can terminate your license if they say it is older technology. Fortunately, they have my best interest in the forefront and can still save me from ruin with a 10% discount if I fire up the plastic card. Best, John edited...
post edited by JohnKenn - 2012/07/28 22:19:14
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Rain
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/29 11:06:28
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I'm sort of sitting on the fence about this one. I understand your frustration, but compared to other companies like Steinberg, Native Instruments, Antares and such, Waves have a pretty clean track record when it comes to supporting products for a long time. Which company supports older versions of their software forever?
I guess I just can't take the software that I pay for for granted. Software companies come and go, products get discontinued or replaced, so most of the time, buying a piece of software implies that I'll have to pay again in a couple of years.
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JohnKenn
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/29 13:15:37
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Unfortunately, you're probably right. This could be the new trend. Looking forward to software licenses requiring login to a program on remote servers. The loss of a lite version of GTR isn't a big thing, plus the keygen keeps it around. Just irritated that companies sell a product to use indefinitely and then pull the plug. I can understand shutting down tech support and no further development of a line but don't think the simple activation link should be dismantled. Would be best if they left it up to the end user to determine if it's too old to use anymore. Got to apologize for the rant. I've lost a lot of cash over time with these shutdowns. This was only spare change gone. Got to remember also not to use Firefox so I don't have to edit out all the font debris.
post edited by JohnKenn - 2012/07/29 13:22:33
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Rain
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/29 13:22:20
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Your point is totally valid - and just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's acceptable.
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Bigdogs
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/29 18:07:13
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I'm just a hobbyist, and haven't spent a great deal with Waves, but am certainly not going to spend any more. It's one thing to stop supporting a product, but to stop a customer using something they've paid for just because they've bought a new computer seems like poor practice.
Sonar Platinum 64 bit, Windows 10 64 bit, i5 4670K Haswell Processor, 4.2GHz, 8Gb RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, AMD Radeon R7 260X, 120GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD, 1000GB 7200RPM Hard Disk
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Jonbouy
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/29 19:49:52
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I am absolutely with your stance here John. Companies seem to be moving toward this kind of thing more and more but plenty seem to be prepared to suck it up which leads to vendors thinking enough people are OK with it for it to continue and progress. I seem to become alienated more each day as folk line up to be hooked up to the cloud and actually these days tend even to argue on the side of the companies that act against the individuals rights with regard to what constitutes a sale. It looks from where I'm sitting like a consumer led sleepwalk into the slaughter house. It scares the crap out of me TBH. Maybe it's because people don't have to hold cash and go to the store to get something that's worth the effort of doing that anymore. It's not just Waves it seems completely endemic to the industry. It's like watching the plot from the 'Bodysnatchers' where you look out the window to see who else has been affected, you can even trust your friends and family anymore... 
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/29 19:54:27
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Rain
I'm sort of sitting on the fence about this one. I understand your frustration, but compared to other companies like Steinberg, Native Instruments, Antares and such, Waves have a pretty clean track record when it comes to supporting products for a long time. Which company supports older versions of their software forever?
I guess I just can't take the software that I pay for for granted. Software companies come and go, products get discontinued or replaced, so most of the time, buying a piece of software implies that I'll have to pay again in a couple of years.
I hear this argument/company leaning justification a lot. It's absolute garbage here. This has nothing to do with wanting support for a legacy product it's just having the basic right to use it in the same way as it was advertised and sold. Nobody is after service or support, just the entitlement to continue using it under the same conditions. If I have hardware that supports 25 year old software that I bought then it should belong to me so I can continue to use it. It's not an expiring lease, it's a sale. Consumers shouldn't be making allowances for vendors here they should be banging down doors in pursuit of their rights. Do everyone a favour next time you "pay for software" bother to find out what that constitutes instead of just apathetically ambling into some arrangement you cant be bothered to take the trouble to sweat in order find out what the deal is, so the rest of us don't continue to feel 'screwed again'. It ain't the companies I'm blaming here, it's the amount of those willing to line up to hand money over without securing the terms. Sellers will continue to negotiate the best terms for themselves, they care enough to do that, it's customers that have volunteered to give up the right to barter and make clear what is acceptable to them.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/07/30 08:50:58
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Rain
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/29 21:02:58
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Jonbouy
Do everyone a favour next time you "pay for software" bother to find out what that constitutes instead of just apathetically ambling into some arrangement you cant be bothered to take the trouble to sweat in order find out what the deal is, so the rest of us don't continue to feel 'screwed again'.
Pardon me? Thank you for the lesson but the only person I need to consult when making a purchase is my wife. If you feel screwed, by all means feel free to blame me, Bill Gates, Santa Claus and the rest of the world for it, just like you felt free to totally ignore my other posts in this thread in order to justify your ramblings. Quote: " Your point is totally valid - and just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's acceptable." Hope you feel better now, though with all the negativity that often emanates from your post here on the software forum, I highly doubt it...
post edited by Rain - 2012/07/29 21:04:01
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Jonbouy
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/30 05:07:21
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Rain I don't make these statements on a specific personal level EVER! I talk generally of the priciples involved. However, if the cap fits and all that. The challenge/response mechanism that Cakewalk employs is a large reason behind my use of Cakewalk products. It means I'm not screwed if I change machines or never upgrade my hardware again in future. It's a choice I make, and it's a big reason why I'm here and not on some other DAW vendors site. Sharp practice from software vendors, spamming the forums with marketing etc,etc,etc? What's the origin of what you are calling negativity that emanates from me in particular? Where better to discuss these issues than the software forum? It's a completely relavent topic and an important one too considering the increasingly aggressive methods being employed by vendors. Your post was highlighted because it presents a common attitude, you'll notice I referred to it's argument as 'It' nowhere did I refer to 'You' personally. Buying a piece of software doesn't imply anywhere that you'll need to update it at some point unless the seller is making that specific claim at the point of sale. Yes, I acknowledge you've also stated yourself it's not acceptable so do you just continue to comply or what? Sure you're the only one that can make the choice of what you decide to pay for, my point is that when people don't think when they purchase then it makes it easier for the rest of us to be 'screwed agan'. I'd much rather you'd base your view on what was actually being said rather than a feeling you may have created for yourself about the person presenting it. That doesn't always happen here though, because that's the internet I guess, I've got resigned to the fact that is just how it is. It's not likely to stop me chiming in on an issue that I consider worthy of commenting on though.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/07/30 09:11:27
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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aj
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/30 14:30:24
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Cakewalk certainly have the most hassle-free licensing option. Native Instruments appear to continue to support registration transfers even for old products since I have the original Kompakt sample player and was able to transfer that to a new machine not so long ago. All your NI purchases (or NI-powered products like GPO) are managed fairly painlessly via their 'service centre' app. As for the other vendors with protected software that I currently have installed:- The vendor of RealStrat (marvellous product, may I say), provides a fixed serial number like Cakewalk so no problem there with transfers Reaper - I think from memory again there's a fixed serial number provided so not anticipating any long term support problem Toontrack - the other vendor for which I have licensed software - is a potential problem. After three transfers it's up to their discretion whether they'll allow any more (which means if I change my current machine I may have to beg them for the privilege of transferring the software I paid for) But the Waves policy of refusing future activations seems entirely out of line. I guess the best we can do is to boycott vendors with these kind of attitudes until they get the message.
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JohnKenn
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/30 22:41:47
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Jon, Rain, Bigdogs, Aj, Hope you guys are well and didn’t mean to start a war among brothers in arms warriors. My limited perspective, you guys nailed the issues and validated my rant.
Helped out an engineering guy on some stuff a long time ago and he wanted to repay me. Got daily links to software cracks. One of the earliest Cakewalk programs was my first illegal program.
Hard on thrills as I accumulated Cakewalk, Sony, other programs without paying a penny for any of them.
Fortunately not a Christian, so heathen morality started to inflict pain any time an unpaid program was opened.
My cyber closet is not entirely clean. Got some mp3’s that I have not bought the CD for. Twisted morality is that if I can’t afford or justify buying a program, got to do without. Company calls the shots.
Out of the closet, except for scattered mp3’s, all software is paid for and moral.
Pains me about 25% to have to resort to cracks and keygens.
Lost over a hundred bucks on Voyetra Midi Producer and Record Producer. They posted that they were trying to protect me from data loss if new OS systems came about, so were aborting further activation for my own good. Bloody bastards. Haven’t found a crack for this and will let it go the way of the world.
Don’t know how many of us were burned with the Khajerus golden series plugs.
Different dynamic but equally punishing for the end user.
Anyone stranded with this ripoff, search for the golden suite and cracks are available. These plugs are still good and useful. Easy to counterattack the screw job they did on you.
Respect Cakewalk, respect Reaper, respect Ken at AcmeBarGig, fine companies like Klanghelm and his fine fine comperessor. Dude saw that extra copy protection related to code excessive bloat that would have to be billed to the end user, had no ultimate protection advantage.
]http://klanghelm.com/DC8C.html
Dynamte compressor by the way. Got a free and shareware version. Guys like this we got to support. High road ethic and quality to match the ethic.
John any way to fix posts so we don't have to edit to remove pixel/font debris??...
post edited by JohnKenn - 2012/07/30 22:51:06
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Rain
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/30 23:51:44
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Jonbouy
Rain I don't make these statements on a specific personal level EVER!
I talk generally of the priciples involved. However, if the cap fits and all that.
The challenge/response mechanism that Cakewalk employs is a large reason behind my use of Cakewalk products. It means I'm not screwed if I change machines or never upgrade my hardware again in future.
It's a choice I make, and it's a big reason why I'm here and not on some other DAW vendors site.
Sharp practice from software vendors, spamming the forums with marketing etc,etc,etc? What's the origin of what you are calling negativity that emanates from me in particular? Where better to discuss these issues than the software forum? It's a completely relavent topic and an important one too considering the increasingly aggressive methods being employed by vendors.
Your post was highlighted because it presents a common attitude, you'll notice I referred to it's argument as 'It' nowhere did I refer to 'You' personally. Buying a piece of software doesn't imply anywhere that you'll need to update it at some point unless the seller is making that specific claim at the point of sale. Yes, I acknowledge you've also stated yourself it's not acceptable so do you just continue to comply or what? Sure you're the only one that can make the choice of what you decide to pay for, my point is that when people don't think when they purchase then it makes it easier for the rest of us to be 'screwed agan'.
I'd much rather you'd base your view on what was actually being said rather than a feeling you may have created for yourself about the person presenting it. That doesn't always happen here though, because that's the internet I guess, I've got resigned to the fact that is just how it is. It's not likely to stop me chiming in on an issue that I consider worthy of commenting on though.
Good to know as I'd hate to feel uncomfortable around another forum member and you probably know that I do appreciate your presence on these boards, even when we don't agree 100%. I do understand that the message that you quoted provided an opportunity and a context in which an important statement (which needs to be made) could be made and that some people effectively need to be reminded. (Incidentally, you actually stated a point of view which I share.) I've probably done that before myself. What rubbed me the wrong way is that, even if it wasn't your intention - and I can believe that - is that my point of view seemed appeared up and loss all its nuances for the sake of making a statement. Quoting a message and using the second person makes things sound personal. So - no hard feelings and thanks for clarifying.
post edited by Rain - 2012/07/30 23:53:09
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Jonbouy
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/31 06:56:16
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No worries Rain, I know I have a bucket mouth and come across as abrasive at times...  I always enjoy your company round here.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/31 07:00:14
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JohnKenn
any way to fix posts so we don't have to edit to remove pixel/font debris??...
If it's formating errors I tend to select and cut the entire post drop it in Notepad then copy and paste it back from there.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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JohnKenn
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Re:screwed again
2012/07/31 23:48:19
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:screwed again
2012/08/01 12:30:13
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I don't have Waves software.
I'm not sure I've fully understood, what this end of support means in this case. If it means that after updating my PC I could not anymore activate this software for use, it's not correct business manners, IMO.
In such cases there should be offered a minor update to the software which makes it possible to release the software from regular activation procedure and maybe give the users a permanent activation code, which can be used independently. Of course that would make it possible to pass the software on to other users, but the company can't call it a loss, actually. They've let the horse loose and it's not their concern anymore where it gallops.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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Rain
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Re:screwed again
2012/08/01 23:35:07
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Kalle Rantaaho
I don't have Waves software.
I'm not sure I've fully understood, what this end of support means in this case. If it means that after updating my PC I could not anymore activate this software for use, it's not correct business manners, IMO.
In such cases there should be offered a minor update to the software which makes it possible to release the software from regular activation procedure and maybe give the users a permanent activation code, which can be used independently. Of course that would make it possible to pass the software on to other users, but the company can't call it a loss, actually. They've let the horse loose and it's not their concern anymore where it gallops.
The thing is that we're talking about old versions of the software - and fairly inexpensive software at that. I hardly see Waves going back to modify the authorization process of such an older product - plus, as you mention, it would be the equivalent of giving it away. Especially not when the upgrade to the current version is so inexpensive (in fact, version 9 is on sale for $18, right now). Just like the pre-X1 versions of Sonar - I'm not sure Cakewalk would appreciate if people started re-distributing those just because they've "let the horse loose". The thing though is that Cakewalk always had an reasonable copy protection scheme, unlike Waves. So while I don't find it correct for them to drop it completely and make it impossible for someone to reauthorize their software in the future, in all fairness, if someone wishes to continue using GTR in the future, they'll have to upgrade sooner or later. For under $20, you get that...
post edited by Rain - 2012/08/01 23:38:20
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JohnKenn
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Re:screwed again
2012/08/02 22:23:24
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Friends, Followup on this. I had sent an outraged email to Waves about the shutdown of further activation of GTR Solo and the resulting media damage incurred. Yesterday was the deadline and my tests confirmed inability to install and transfer the licenses. I tried today for the hell of it, and GTR Solo installs without authorization. The initial launch took several minutes and presented as a hung process but finally came up as a functional vst and standalone on a second computer. Likely analyzing my previous purchase which is right under the contract. If this is now an benefit unrestricted and extended to all Waves clients, the company has done the right thing for the end point user. Proper move and restores some faith, as this was the only moral response. Best, John Still can't edit paragraphs. Need to follow Jon's advice. Need to contact Waves and retract my rant.
post edited by JohnKenn - 2012/08/02 22:36:39
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Rain
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Re:screwed again
2012/08/02 22:59:17
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Thanks for the update John!
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Jonbouy
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Re:screwed again
2012/08/03 09:03:29
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JohnKenn
Friends,
Followup on this.
I had sent an outraged email to Waves about the shutdown of further activation of GTR Solo and the resulting media damage incurred.
Yesterday was the deadline and my tests confirmed inability to install and transfer the licenses.
I tried today for the hell of it, and GTR Solo installs without authorization. The initial launch took several minutes and presented as a hung process but finally came up as a functional vst and standalone on a second computer. Likely analyzing my previous purchase which is right under the contract.
If this is now an benefit unrestricted and extended to all Waves clients, the company has done the right thing for the end point user. Proper move and restores some faith, as this was the only moral response.
Best,
John
Still can't edit paragraphs. Need to follow Jon's advice. Need to contact Waves and retract my rant.
That is good news and may even show the power of not just merely 'rolling over' on these kind of principles. Stick it to 'em...  I wouldn't bother editing it if I were you (which of course I'm not) as it shows what the original complaint was and how it was resolved. It's a good story in total and shows good-will on both sides of the coin and of course it appears to have a positive outcome.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/08/03 09:08:37
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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