sfz based instrument ideas

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markheath
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2006/02/25 09:54:09 (permalink)

sfz based instrument ideas

Cakewalk now have two instruments (Dimension Pro and Rapture) based on the same sfz file format and engine, and René's recent post more than strongly hints that more are on the way. Now, I'm sure they are not short of ideas for what to release next, but there's no harm in putting a few new thoughts into their heads. I think the whole idea of basing multiple instruments on the same engine with an open file format has huge potential.

Here are some of my ideas:

1. An acoustic drum sampler with multiple outputs. This would be shipped with a multi-sampled drumkit, with one sfz file per kit piece (and per microphone on that kit piece). Thus (similar to BFD), you could add ambience by simply mixing the sounds from those multisamples. Direct from Disk mode might be a necessity if the multisamples were too large. It could even include some MIDI grooves and fills that can be dragged from the interface into the host app.

2. A multi-effects unit. There are already a good number of effects included in the engine, so why not make these available on their own, for us to pass our own sounds through. The thought of being able to exactly control the parameters of each effect through an sfz file is great, and sharing patches between users on the forums would be much easier than with existing effects.

3. Customised instruments / effects. Imagine if there were a few new sfz opcodes to specify a customised GUI. For example, the ability to add knobs, faders, buttons and meters, each with either default or customised graphics. They could be attached to different parameters in the sfz file. This would mean that people could not just program their own sounds, but effectively create their own instruments or effects. Again, they would be very easy to share on the web (not to mention safer than downloading dlls from unknown sources), and would not require your VST directory to fill up with hundreds of freeware SynthEdit VSTs.

I could go on, but that's enough for now. I hope similar ideas are in the pipeline. As René says:
I can't talk about the final plans for it, but it'll become huge, when the right time comes.

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9 Replies Related Threads

    Paradroid
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/02/25 16:19:20 (permalink)
    Cakewalk now have two instruments (Dimension Pro and Rapture)

    Don't forget RXP. I haven't lost hope for that little guy yet…

    drum sampler with multiple outputs

    It just has to happen…

    multi-effects unit

    If any of the current synths had an audio input, you'd have this already (as long as you new what you were doing with sfz)

    new sfz opcodes to specify a customised GUI

    Nah, the way to do it wouldn't be through sfz. Instead, have a GUI editor to arrange all the knobs, sliders, vector mixers, displays, etc. and then the sfz would refer to these through custom CC numbers.

    Just, a thought… What's NI's Reactor user base like? I would've thought sfz would be easier to learn than building Reactor ensembles. I'm speculating though since I've never touched the thing myself. Just got me wondering 'cause a lot of people seemed to really have gotten into programming for that even though sfz seems less daunting in comparison.Maybe it's just more of a right-brained crowd here… nothing wrong with that, means they might actually get some music made!

    Anyway, Mark, once again, you're hankering for the same sfz stuff as I.
    #2
    oroboros
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/02/26 00:56:35 (permalink)
    Great thoughts, guys.

    My first vote goes to the Cakewalk version of Battery. Using the DimPro engine, I don't even think this would be all that hard to create. Just rearrange the GUI more like Velocity / Battery, with the engine that effectively already exists, and there you are. Especially - and this is the 'killer' part - interchangability of samples / sfz's between them all.

    The whole is greater than the sum of the parts with this sfz concept.

    I think I'm beginning to see where René and Cakewalk are going with this ... freakin smart ...

    To think, at one time P5 was a $429 MSRP app.

    I think that technology and music has always been together, and I think music is science, anyway. - Vangelis

    The Other P5 Forum
    #3
    Chrisma
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/04/03 16:04:27 (permalink)
    Yes Cakewalk!!! A drumsampler that picks up where Cyclone left off and is based on sfz engine and allows graphic editing and slicing on both based on transients and samples. Hint a virtual mpc without the squencer but with drumroll settings and stuff like that.

    Guess I got a little carried away but it would be my go to drum machine period.
    #4
    Chrisma
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/04/03 17:09:37 (permalink)
    I got it! RXP PRO! It already loads the sfz format and giving it multiple outputs and allow us to view and tweak each sample and layer plus the ability to manual or automatically create slices and it's there.

    post edited by Chrisma - 2006/04/03 17:16:36
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    lawapa
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/04/03 20:25:08 (permalink)
    If any of the current synths had an audio input, you'd have this already (as long as you new what you were doing with sfz )


    And can you not load a wave file into Rapture. I know the answer ;)+) I just forgot what the size limit is Dale. You do know, since Rapture does not have direct audio input that any part of a tune you wish to effectize using Rapture has to be exported and then reimported.
    post edited by lawapa - 2006/04/03 20:32:42
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    lawapa
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/04/03 20:32:05 (permalink)
    Guess I got a little carried away but it would be my go to drum machine period.


    I can not imagine Cakewalk not having a SFZ based drum synth. And soon ;)+) Chrisma. It just has to be. And while Dimension Pro can do drums. I just can't see Cakewalk passing on this.
    #7
    JazzSinger
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/04/04 04:30:02 (permalink)
    I can not imagine Cakewalk not having a SFZ based drum synth.

    I am fully up and running with drum sounds using sfz in DimPro. This was already the case with the old sfz.exe and I see no reason why Rapture should not also be capable of this.

    What is missing in DP and Rap that a new sfz based drum synth should have?

    Edit: oh, multiple outputs: ok, sorry sorry, next time I should read all postings properly before I hit that send button.
    post edited by JazzSinger - 2006/04/04 04:40:45
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    Paradroid
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/04/04 06:26:51 (permalink)
    oh, multiple outputs: ok, sorry sorry

    That's the sticky point, right there: multiple outs for extra missing and processing options.

    Now if I could just find a plugin reverb that René would deem worthy of his interpolation engine…
    #9
    markheath
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    RE: sfz based instrument ideas 2006/04/04 06:36:06 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Paradroid
    That's the sticky point, right there: multiple outs for extra missing and processing options.


    Its a convenience thing really. It won't actually enable anything that we can't already do. I now typically use 6 or 7 instances (kick, snare, hats, crashes, toms, ride etc) of Dimension all loaded with the same sampled drum-kit (thankfully the RAM is shared so you don't need to make cut-down sfz files for each one). I then have a drum map so one MIDI track can feed them all. Each Dimension output can then have its own compression / eq and reverb bus send level. One of these days I'll get round to saving all this as a SONAR template or track preset, and then it will only be marginally less convenient than having one plugin with multiple outs.

    So if Cakewalk were to make a multi-out sfz instrument for sampled drums, they would need to give some added value of some kind as well to make a compelling case for buying. e.g. Bundled sample sets / MIDI loops / Built in EQ, compression & reverb etc.
    #10
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