sfz multiple instances problem

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JazzSinger
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/02/22 09:41:41 (permalink)
!!! One of my sounds is the NaturalStudio ns_kit7 free lite, too! Also the JazzBass from natural studio.
I converted to .wav files using Chickensys Translator, I think (long ago, now). The .wav files worked fine in my Akai Z8.

Edit: if I think back, each converted .wav file had a "click" at the end. The original SF2 sounds did not have this.
I trimmed every single .wav file in SoundForge to remove the click, but as I say, it's some months ago, now. I don't
recall the details.

Strange: I already considered the possibility of bad .wav files and built a utility that stripped out all unneeded data (the Akai Z8 adds chunks of its own). There are only 2 chunks left now: the header and the data.

Something I haven't considered is that perhaps the length byte of the data and the actual data length do not correspond. I will investigate tonight and post my results tomorrow.

Edit: I have your piano now, will try the combination tonight.

Yes, this only happens when you have two instances and both are loaded. The ns_kit7 works fine if it is the only sound set loaded.
post edited by JazzSinger - 2006/02/22 10:02:19
#31
JazzSinger
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/02/23 03:25:52 (permalink)
Nope, the .wav files in ns_kit7 free are correct.

I also downloaded the herodotus drum kit from

http://www.realbassanddrums.com/herodotus_set1.zip

When I have that open at the same time as the DimPro mini piano, it also crashes when I save.

BUT:

What I have noticed is that, if a project is new, it may actually save once or twice without a problem. If I then fiddle around a bit (for example, open your p200 piano in the instance currently holding the herodotus kit), then after a few changes like that, it WILL crash.

And once a project has crashed, something seems to go wrong within the project file because it crashes consistently after that. No amount of picture cache or aud.ini deleting changes it. Single instances continue to work, tho'.

There is clearly something not good in sfz; a memory leak or similar would be a good explanation since it happens more on larger sounds and is not 100% reproducible.

Now, if only CW could assure me the problem does not exist in DimPro or has been identified and removed in Rapture, I'd gladly open my wallet and purchase one of them. But I cannot reassure my self of that since no demo versions will be made available because of the large number of versions of these products and, it seems, experience shows making trial versions available has little effect on numbers sold. :(

#32
markheath
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/02/23 07:02:36 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: JazzSinger
There is clearly something not good in sfz; a memory leak or similar would be a good explanation since it happens more on larger sounds and is not 100% reproducible.

I'm pretty sure sfz uses a shared memory area between instances to avoid storing the same file in memory twice. It may simply be an issue of two threads accessing this memory in a non-safe manner (i.e. without using mutexes or similar). This can be a real issue if data structures like linked lists are used. Perhaps the size of sample set just increases the time window in which a problem can occur.

Now, if only CW could assure me the problem does not exist in DimPro or has been identified and removed in Rapture, I'd gladly open my wallet and purchase one of them. But I cannot reassure my self of that since no demo versions will be made available because of the large number of versions of these products and, it seems, experience shows making trial versions available has little effect on numbers sold. :(

I have Dimension (bought the P5v2 special offer for SONAR users, but have no use for any of it apart from Dimension), and it has been totally reliable for me so far. I'll update the project in question to use 2 instances of Dimension and let you know if I have any issues. From what I've picked up from René's posts, Dimension seems to have a significant amount of rewritten code compared to sfz. For example, the resampling algorithm is new (i.e. doesn't correspond directly to any of the quality settings in sfz). So there is no need to assume that sfz and Dimension will automatically share the same bugs.

There is a demo Dimension available with some versions of the P5v2 demo. I got a copy with an issue of Computer Music. I don't know if this is available anywhere else though.
#33
JazzSinger
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/02/23 07:18:36 (permalink)
two threads accessing this memory in a non-safe manner
That was my initial theory. I mentioned it in the Instruments forum and got a reply from Rene. He replied to some of my questions, but didn't comment on this supposition in any way. I figured, if anyone knows whether this issue has been found and solved, he should.
I'll update the project in question to use 2 instances of Dimension and let you know if I have any issues.

Thank you! I really would appreciate that very much.

From what I've picked up from René's posts, Dimension seems to have a significant amount of rewritten code compared to sfz.
Whenever I post in Instruments, I get replies telling me how wonderful DimPro is. I don't doubt it. All I want to know is: is this fixed?
There is a demo Dimension available with some versions of the P5v2 demo.
I am now downloading the P5v2 trial version, but the text explicitly states: no Dimension DXi. :(
#34
markheath
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/02/23 08:33:14 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: JazzSinger
I'll update the project in question to use 2 instances of Dimension and let you know if I have any issues.

Thank you! I really would appreciate that very much.



I have updated the project to use 2 instances of Dimension, loaded with exactly the same .sfz files as before. Everything is working fine - playback, saving, closing etc.
#35
JazzSinger
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/02/23 10:23:39 (permalink)
:) :) :) :)

I am ordering Dimension Pro now.
#36
JazzSinger
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem (solved - sort of) 2006/03/17 03:23:39 (permalink)
Just to let everyone know: DimPro really does seem to solve the problem with the multiple instance crash. Thanks for the help, markheath.

Now I just have to delete those 8GB (2 DVD's?!) of sounds to get my hard drive back :)
#37
markheath
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem (solved - sort of) 2006/03/17 07:41:56 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: JazzSinger

Just to let everyone know: DimPro really does seem to solve the problem with the multiple instance crash. Thanks for the help, markheath.

Now I just have to delete those 8GB (2 DVD's?!) of sounds to get my hard drive back :)



Glad to hear you've found a (somewhat expensive) workaround. Sounds like you need a new HDD as well.

I don't know what Cakewalk's future plans for sfz are, but if they are going to continue bundling it with SONAR I think it would make a lot of sense for them to switch it over to using the engine from Dimension (actually, I think they should do the same with Velocity and the DS8whatever sampler thingy from Project5). It would save the need to convert all sf2's into .sfz (even though I think that sfz is the better file format).
#38
Rayman
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/09/13 10:00:50 (permalink)
I had the sound problem today with version 5.0. I removed all instance of sfz from project and re-added and the project was fine. I am running version 5.0.1
#39
s_barber
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/09/13 10:40:49 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: JazzSinger

I am trying to find out if there is something in common that is causing this.



I gave up on sfz when I got dimension with P5 a while back. The snap crackle pop if the settings aren't just right or the sample being too big was too much for me. I can't imagine two instances. I don't think it's stable enough to be counted on. Espicially when there are better alternatives. That's my 2 cents.
#40
fresh101
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RE: sfz multiple instances problem 2006/09/13 12:34:00 (permalink)
Does this problem exist with SFZ+ aswell?
#41
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