rbecker
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sidechaining help needed SOLVED?
Hello All- I have looked at several instructions and tutorials, but just can't seem to get sidechaining to work for me. I have a test project that I am simply trying to have the bass guitar line compress when the flute plays. I have reduced my method to the simplest that I could come up with, and am still not getting compression on the bass when the flute is playing. Here are the steps I have followed: 1. Added a flute track with output to the master bus 2. Added a bass track with output to the master bus 3. Dropped a Sonitus FX compressor in the bass FX bin 4. Added a send to the flute track that sidechains to the Sonitus compressor in the bass FX bin I was under the impression that this was pretty much all I needed to do. The trouble is is that when the send is turned off in the flute track, the compressor compresses the bass as per usual - that is, just based on the volume of the bass notes and ignoring anything the flute does - but when the send is turned on in the flute track, no input is showing on the left side of the compressor display, and no compression of the bass takes place at all, almost as if the effect were turned off. I even tried not using a send at all by ouputing the flute directly to the Sonitus side-input. No go. I tried using the Sonitus gate also. No luck there, either. Everything I have looked at tempts me to think that my sidechaining is "broke", but I know that nine times out of ten the problem is just some silly oversight on the part of the user! I have tried variations using busses etc, but no combination seems to work. If anybody could post a simple example of sidechaining that they know for sure works in Sonar, I would certainly appreciate it!
post edited by rbecker - 2010/07/07 19:33:23
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 12:19:23
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Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 12:37:29
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RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 12:56:21
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yeah I put that together real quick no sound. you can enlarge it on the bottom to 720, if you follow the steps you should be able to get it , all I did was load up a kick in session drummer, loaded up a bass line , I went to the output of the bass line and created a new bus, Then I went to that buss opened up the sonitus compressor, then I went to the kick and right click and sent that to the buss that has the sonitus compressor , thats it, Done>> all is needed is a few compressor tweeks, and you got a simple side chain..
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 12:57:57
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The more I think about it, the more the heart of the problem seems to be that the Sonitus effect is not getting input from the send. I assume that the input meter would deflect if it were working as expected, but it doesn't budge.
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 13:02:43
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djjhart@aol.com
yeah I put that together real quick no sound. you can enlarge it on the bottom to 720, if you follow the steps you should be able to get it , all I did was load up a kick in session drummer, loaded up a bass line , I went to the output of the bass line and created a new bus, Then I went to that buss opened up the sonitus compressor, then I went to the kick and right click and sent that to the buss that has the sonitus compressor , thats it, Done>> all is needed is a few compressor tweeks, and you got a simple side chain..
Tell me...does the input meter of the Sonitus deflect to the notes played by the kick? Thanks again.
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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ba_midi
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 13:02:54
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Hello All- I have looked at several instructions and tutorials, but just can't seem to get sidechaining to work for me. I have a test project that I am simply trying to have the bass guitar line compress when the flute plays. I have reduced my method to the simplest that I could come up with, and am still not getting compression on the bass when the flute is playing. If you want "ducking", you might be better off using the Sonitus Gate and put it in "DUCK" mode. But, just to go over the basics, here's using your example: Flute track and Bass track are setup just as you did. Flute track gets a SEND to whatever plugin (gate or compressor, etc) which is setup on the Bass track. It seems you did all that correctly. However, the Flute track must ALWAYS be sending its signal or the ducking won't work. So if you MUTE the flute track, you're muting its signal to the side chain. That's why the plugin on the Bass track then affects the Bass directly. One way to handle this is to duplicate the Flute track and set the dupe's output to NONE (no output) and put the Send on this duplicate track. That way it's ALWAYS sending signal but you won't have to worry about muting/unmuting, etc. And, if you WANT to also compress the Bass separately from the side-chain effect, just throw another compressor on the track (or bus) AFTER the side-chained plugin.
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ba_midi
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 13:04:22
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rbecker
The more I think about it, the more the heart of the problem seems to be that the Sonitus effect is not getting input from the send. I assume that the input meter would deflect if it were working as expected, but it doesn't budge.
Have you tried to adjust the input, threshold, ratio, etc? That will matter. If you're not seeing signal being affected, you may have to make adjustments to get enough signal in and to be able to then set your parameters accordingly.
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 13:08:40
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to understand the effect , what I would do , is write a 4/4 kick and then a write a nice string , loop it , follow the instructions above , and adjust the compressor setting , you should hear the string start to duck .. there's many technique's you can achieve side chaining , keep watching the videos to understand. dont give up...
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 13:15:58
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ba_midi
...However, the Flute track must ALWAYS be sending its signal or the ducking won't work. So if you MUTE the flute track, you're muting its signal to the side chain. That's why the plugin on the Bass track then affects the Bass directly.
One way to handle this is to duplicate the Flute track and set the dupe's output to NONE (no output) and put the Send on this duplicate track. That way it's ALWAYS sending signal but you won't have to worry about muting/unmuting, etc.
And, if you WANT to also compress the Bass separately from the side-chain effect, just throw another compressor on the track (or bus) AFTER the side-chained plugin.
Thanks for the reply, Billy. To clarify, I was not muting or unmuting the flute track, but rather turning on and off the little green button to the left of the 'Pre/Post' toggle on the send. By turning the send off, the compressor seemed to revert to a normal function and simply compressed the bass line using the bass levels, which I guess is to be expected. However, when I turned the send switch on, the compressor was then totally ignored, with no input being registered on the effect input meter, and no compression taking place at all. 
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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ba_midi
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 13:22:52
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Thanks for the reply, Billy. To clarify, I was not muting or unmuting the flute track, but rather turning on and off the little green button to the left of the 'Pre/Post' toggle on the send. By turning the send off, the compressor seemed to revert to a normal function and simply compressed the bass line using the bass levels, which I guess is to be expected. However, when I turned the send switch on, the compressor was then totally ignored, with no input being registered on the effect input meter, and no compression taking place at all.
You're welcome :) I suspect you're not getting enough signal from the flute track to the side-chained compressor. That's the first thing to look for - is there signal, and enough of it, that actually is kicking in the compression.
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ba_midi
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 13:25:57
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To clarify, I was not muting or unmuting the flute track, but rather turning on and off the little green button to the left of the 'Pre/Post' toggle on the send. By turning the send off, the compressor seemed to revert to a normal function BTW. just in case you're not aware of what the pre/post switch does (sorry if I'm telling you something you know): PRE simply sends a "copy" of the track's signal before the "fader" (PRE_FADER is the actual term). This means that you can lower the fader to the track and the level of the copy will NOT be affected. POST (Post-Fader) is the opposite. When you lower the fader to the track, the level of the copy to the send will be lowered as well.
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 15:02:19
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ba_midi
I suspect you're not getting enough signal from the flute track to the side-chained compressor.
That's the first thing to look for - is there signal, and enough of it, that actually is kicking in the compression.
I am quite sure that the flute in puting out enough signal...the track is metering at -6ish and I have the compressor threshold set to about -30. Also, when as a test I put the same compressor directly into the flute FX bin, the compressor compresses just fine. Again, I am getting zero deflection on the compressor in the bass FX bin when the send is switched on, which would seem to indicate a major disconnect between the send and the side-input of the effect. Djjhart - I am going to try again with kick and strings. Maybe using drums as the controlling track for the Sonitus will make the difference. Very frustrating when something that should be so simple so totally eludes one....
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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ba_midi
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 15:52:45
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rbecker
ba_midi
I suspect you're not getting enough signal from the flute track to the side-chained compressor.
That's the first thing to look for - is there signal, and enough of it, that actually is kicking in the compression.
I am quite sure that the flute in puting out enough signal...the track is metering at -6ish and I have the compressor threshold set to about -30. Also, when as a test I put the same compressor directly into the flute FX bin, the compressor compresses just fine.
Again, I am getting zero deflection on the compressor in the bass FX bin when the send is switched on, which would seem to indicate a major disconnect between the send and the side-input of the effect.
Djjhart - I am going to try again with kick and strings. Maybe using drums as the controlling track for the Sonitus will make the difference. Very frustrating when something that should be so simple so totally eludes one....
One thing I missed here -- what version of Sonar 8 are you using? And are you sure you have the Sonitus Comp set to "side-chain" on the bass track?
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 18:09:02
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ba_midi
One thing I missed here -- what version of Sonar 8 are you using? And are you sure you have the Sonitus Comp set to "side-chain" on the bass track?
Funny you ask that about version. I was just myself wondering if sidechaining in not functional in Sonar Studio, but just sits there as a tease. BTW I am using Sonar Studio 8 (8.0.2.319). I looked in the online 'help', and saw nothing about 'Producer version only' with regard to sidechaining. I am positive I have selected the 'side input' version of the send.
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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Chris S
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 18:19:43
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I am just now playing with side chaining for the first time.
I tried the way you are doing it, but now I have Classic Channel on the master bus with the track that I want to affect the compressor sending to the side-chain input of Classic Channel.
I think it is working because I can hear the ducking.
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 18:31:01
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Chris S
I am just now playing with side chaining for the first time.
I tried the way you are doing it, but now I have Classic Channel on the master bus with the track that I want to affect the compressor sending to the side-chain input of Classic Channel.
I think it is working because I can hear the ducking.
Thanks for replying, Chris. When you say you "...tried the way you are doing it...", do you mean tried my method and failed? Have you tried with Sonitus?
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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Chris S
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 19:03:26
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I don't know if it was a fail, but I couldn't hear ducking and I thought about the signal path.
I know I wanted a bass drum to duck the entire output so I just switched the location of the effect.
I am pretty sure Sonitus works as a sidechainer because I have read others on this forum use it.
If it (the effect) shows up as an input, it is sidechainable.
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MrMook
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 19:22:37
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Did you adjust the attack and release settings in Sonitus?
I attempted sidechaining for the 1st time this week and it worked okay for me.
Dave- SONAR Platinum Intel i7 4790 360 GHz , 32 GB RAM, SR-22, UA-25EX, Win 7 x64, Too many Vsts and Effects.
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed SOLVED?
2010/07/07 19:28:34
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Now I see what you mean. Shouldn't matter in my case because I am just trying to compress the bass. My test project only has two tracks - flute and bass. Well, I'll be danged. It works now for some reason! I just went to try it again...I didn't make any changes since I last tried...I swear. For some reason it works, both with the Sonitus in the bass FX bin or if I put it in the bass bus. Wonders never cease to exist. I only hope it KEEPS working now! Thanks all for your help. If it messes up again, I'll be right back to the forum! 
post edited by rbecker - 2010/07/07 19:30:26
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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rbecker
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 19:40:56
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MrMook
Did you adjust the attack and release settings in Sonitus?
I attempted sidechaining for the 1st time this week and it worked okay for me.
MrMook- My previous post was in response to Chris S. Your post slipped between the two somehow. I have the attack set to 0 and release set to 1, which I believe I copied from one of the youtube demos.
RJB -Vernon Corv "There are 10 types of people in the world...Those who understand binary and those who don't." My Songs --- Sonar Platinum HD: ST2000DM 001-1ER164 7200RPM Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @3.40 Ghz RAM:12.0 GB Memory:2 drives 1 Terabyte each Windows 10 Video: NVIDA GeForce GTX 550 Ti Audio: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
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ba_midi
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 19:43:36
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turning on and off the little green button to the left of the 'Pre/Post' toggle on the send. It just dawned on me you said you were turning on the button to the Left of the pre/post - and I misread that. That button IS the on/off for the send itself. OFF it sends no signal, so make sure that IS on.
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MrMook
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2010/07/07 19:44:25
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rbecker
MrMook
Did you adjust the attack and release settings in Sonitus?
I attempted sidechaining for the 1st time this week and it worked okay for me.
MrMook-
My previous post was in response to Chris S. Your post slipped between the two somehow. I have the attack set to 0 and release set to 1, which I believe I copied from one of the youtube demos.
No problem! Glad you got it working. Dave-
Dave- SONAR Platinum Intel i7 4790 360 GHz , 32 GB RAM, SR-22, UA-25EX, Win 7 x64, Too many Vsts and Effects.
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Roger More
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Re:sidechaining help needed
2011/04/06 23:32:29
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This is an old thread but I wanted to say that I just experienced the exact same problem described here with version X1B. Completely nuts! Here's the play by play:
Add send from kick to built in channel fx on the bass track. Turn on the 4k and set sidechaining to 1. Nothing. The compressor is on but there is no signal coming in.
I try the same thing with sonitus. Nothing. The bouncing ball is doing nothing.
I try different tracks. Try it on buses, main track, etc. Nothing.
I open a different project where I used sidechaining. Yup, that still worked.
Went back to my current project. Nope still not working.
Turned off 64 bit engine. Nope still not working.
Finally something made it start working. What I did was remove the sidechain send and then send the *output* of my kick to the sonitus compressor. Voila, the ball started bouncing. Then I set output back to master and added my send. Now it's working.
So there is definitely some little gremlin floating around in Sonar. I'm not sure if that output trick was really what got Sonar behaving again but I'll post it here for future searches.
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