Hardware modulars are fun toys. And if you have one you will enjoy the hands on thing.

I use Sonar like a modular set up, And when you think about it while the sound generators have multiple oscillators with filters and effects you can assemble huge sounds from as many sources as you have softsynths. The limit is you can't bring a sound from one synth to the next and reinvent it. I use Rapture for that ;)+) There are a few limits but that is always the case weather it's financial or something can be done like taking the output of a VA and running it through a FM algorithm.

Well fac I've been doing that for quite a while ;)+) What I meant was you can't use the output of one synth as an oscillator in another. But sampling my creations is why I do the additive/stack thing in Sonar. Using it as a giant modular. Rapture has elements of a subtractive/additive synth. And well it's more than those combined.

An example: you could sample out a nice FM patch and using subtractive techniques reinvent that sound in rapture and then use the supplied waveforms/samples sets add to it using additive synthesis. The FM element might be a simple loop that has the FM edge. As I understand it additive is the most powerful form of synthesis. But what sets Rapture apart for me is that ability to bring in what I want and use it in a most powerful setting with all the fun tools to reinvent the sounds I like to work with.

ORIGINAL: fac

Well, I have no clue who's on top of the charts but if you like a particular artist, you can usually find their gear lists with a simple google search.

You can find their gear lists-but can you find what's going on inside their brain?..You don't have to be Einstein to figure out that the instrument is really the person behind it all :) ajw

Aside from the fact that NO software synth will EVER exactly recreate a REAL analog synth like a Moog Voyager, Dave Smith Evolver, or one of the more esoteric breeds currently out there, I agree that sometimes hardware sounds better - even straight romplers.

I own a Fantom-XR and Motif Rack ES. That's 256 notes of polyphony, a bunch of MultiFX, a couple of global FX, 10 audio outputs, and no tax on the computer in 2 rack spaces. Switching patches and searching is instantaneous - no load time. Much more reliable when going from gig to gig. And the sound - I have to agree - sometimes fuller and fatter. I don't know why. Nevertheless the wave of the future will be everything out of the box. We just need a couple more iterations of the box and its OS (i.e. Windows or whatever) to get more powerful and more reliable.

ORIGINAL: Rick McNab

Aside from the fact that NO software synth will EVER exactly recreate a REAL analog synth

And I think no one will ever make fire, invent the wheel, find out the earth is round, land on the moon, navigate a global network of computers.................

If the question is do you like soft synths or hard ware, the answer is yes.

One big plus of SW over HW is simply the space aspect - you don't need many hardware units (plus the spaghetti!) to clutter the place up!

That is a nice benifit But for me it's what I call the ultimate tool. With the computer I can make sample sets, modify them, Map out to format and then tweak them to perfection, Save and classify then into folders, and in general do evey aspect of Program/patch/voice creation from one vantage point.

If you've ever done the patch creation from that tiny lcd screen you will know what I mean. And still you needed a computer to do advanced sample work outside of setting filters and effects.

ORIGINAL: BillW

ORIGINAL: fac

Oh, but you can

Use something like Extreme Sample Converter to convert any patch (from a SW or HW synth) into a sfz or sf2. Then I can load it in Dimension Pro, DS864, Wusikstation, VAZ Plus 2, Shortcircuit Free, or any synth that allows sample loading. I haven't tried resampling with Cameleon 5000 but it should be fun.

I've been using EXSC to sample a few patches from my modular to load them in DimPro, and it's great. After the patch is sampled, I can remove the patch cables and start a new one. Endless fun. And then I can play them polyphonically in DP. However, for sounds where I need to tweak the synth in realtime, I just play it live and record it as an audio track. Best of both worlds.

If you really want to experiment with modular enviroments and reinventing sounds, try something like Audiomulch.

I downloaded and installed the Extreme Sample Converter demo. There isn't a manual, but I'm guessing from your post and by looking at the software, that I can make sf2 samples of some of the sounds I like in my hardware synths and play them in DP. I realize there is some work involved, but I'd like to sample maybe 10-20 patches from my Triton Extreme before I sell it. Have you attempted anything like this?

Thx,
Bill

Yes, and it's quite easy. First, you have to select the destination format, which in your case would be SF2. Then you select "Hardware Converter" as Source Format and a new window will appear.

In this new window you can specify the keyboard/velocity zones to be sampled. There will be one sample per zone. To do this, just click on the keys you want to sample (for example, each C key), and then drag the horizontal edges of the zones to create/modify the velocity zones. You can alternativaly use the Vel. Start, Vel. End, and Vel. Sample knobs to make detailed adjustments.

Once you have set up the zones, you just have to specify a few parameters like the sample format, the hold and release times (which determine how long will the samples be), and the audio and MIDI I/O (click on the MENU button).

Unfortunately, EXSC doesn't provide an input meter so you have to be careful not to overload the audio input, but at the same time it's a good idea to turn the input as loud as you can in order to reduce the noise to signal ratio. I also suggest selecting the "Patch Normalize" and "Detect End Silence" options. The former will take advantage of the full dynamic range, but without changing the relative levels between samples, and the latter will crop your samples to save disk space. Then you just select the MIDI OUT port and channel where your Triton is plugged. Finally, select the "Convert..." option, type in a filename for the SF2 file, and let EXSC do the job.

The parameters and zones in the Hardware Converter are kept until you close the program, so you don't have to set everything up again to sample a new sound. Just change the patch in the Triton and select "Convert..."

EDIT: I believe the demo version of EXSC introduces low-level (but noticeable) noise in all the conversions. Just so you don't think it's a bug.

ORIGINAL: BillW

Thanks for the tips Fac! I'll try it out tonight. I'm not sure how large the zones should be. I'm guessing that ESC uses the mapping/keyrange info to create the sf2 samples and mapping files...which means that it's up to DP to stretch and play them back, so I'll need to experiment with how large to make the ranges to get a decent sample. Thanks again for the advice.

Bill

That's right. Dimension Pro will pitchshift and interpolate to "fill-in" the missing notes. But DP is very good at this (ask Rene if you want the details).

How many zones depend on the sound you are sampling. For "realistic" sounds, like pianos, strings, etc., I'd suggest at least 2 or 3 notes per octave, especially if the sounds are very dynamic (e.g. if they have vibrato or tremolo). For some sounds you can use 1 note per octave and get very good results.

I sometimes sample only one long note for the whole keyboard range, because I specifically want the artifacts caused by pitchshifting the note several semitones. But that's just me :)

The same applies to velocity zones. If you're sampling a piano, you would use more zones than if sampling an organ.

Keep in mind that big sample banks will require more disk space and RAM when you load them into DP.

I own the 76-keys version Markus. It's an awesome keyboard, no doubt. It's my soft-master controller of choice.



-René

Rene , I wish you said its a bad idea ... ,

because now the idea is haunting me like berserk.

Still would be a good joke though!