[solved] Do I need 2 new PCs or just 1? (dedicated DAW vs all-in-one PC)

My DAW is from 2004.  It's a 2.8 GHz P4.  It handles MIDI and audio recording perfectly, but is too slow to handle many soft synths and effects.  For that reason, I've always avoided using soft synths and effects, despite buying Sonar 1,2,3,4,5,7,8, and 8.5.  (For what I do, I could still be using Sonar 1!)  However, I'd like to get into Sonar X1 and soft synths, and for that I'll definitely need to buy a new DAW.

My main PC is from 2007.  It's a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo (E6600).  I use it for work, video editing, and a few games.  Civ5 is horribly slow on this PC, and I'm sure the upcoming MS Flight will be super-slow as well.  The bottleneck appears to be the CPU rather than the GPU, and my motherboard is too old to support the Core i7 CPUs.  So I'm feeling the itch to buy a new main PC.

So, in order to use Sonar X1 and play recent games, will I need to buy two new PCs, or can I get away with just one?

Since 2000 I've always had a separate DAW and main PC.  Back then, this seemed necessary, because smooth audio recording required an optimized PC.  Also, my DAW was often in a separate room (designated the "studio") from my main PC (in the "office"). 

Now, however, my DAW and main PC are right next to each other, so it would be more convenient (and economical) to have one PC for everything.  The question is: can I get away with it?

Audio recording doesn't seem nearly as hardware-intensive, especially if you're only recording a couple tracks at a time.  Multi-core processors seem to, in theory, allow smooth recording even when multitasking.  In theory.  But what is the reality?  Do you find that in order to record even a couple of audio tracks reliably you need a music-optimized PC?  Are anti-virus, windows update checkers, and all the interruptive services really crippling to a DAW, even today?

Also, what about the sound card?  Would I want to use my old M-Audio Delta44 in a new Windows 7 PC, or a high-end Creative Labs card, or would I want both cards?  Do modern day computers still have IRQ conflicts, pops and clicks, and all those annoying hardware issues which prompted us to have separate DAWs in the first place?  Or are hardware issues a thing of the past, like fiddling with config.sys and autoexec.bat?

Do we really need a dedicated DAW these days, or can I get away with an all-in-one PC?

(NOTE: I'd build it myself, so I'm not talking about getting a Dell or K-mart special or something like that).

Thanks!

You could always set up a dual boot situation on a new PC.  You could even have it boot to the same OS in each partition (or whatever the right word is here).  That would be quite a bit cheaper than two separate PCs.  If you don't need the DAW functions and everyday functions available concurrently, this should work just fine.  You'd effectively have two totally separate PCs.

Yes, you can do some optimizations by switching user (user profile & account control)  but the gains will be minimal and may not even be worth the time to setup.

It's because these changes are done on a software level (mainly to limit access and permissions etc) where most DAWs require performance from disabling hardware (turning off networking etc).

Having said all that - It is possible to have one computer to do everything - even without dual booting or user accounts. But you'll need a good system ($$$).

12 GB of RAM?!?! That's excessive for a home DAW in my opinion.

what exactly is a dual boot?  i hear it often.

Ok, so if I already have a version of Windows installed - I can use the OS disk that came with my computer to install another copy of it onto my system?

That would be cool to set-up one OS w/ an antivirus for internet use and the other just for music.  I was thinking you needed to have separate computers.

But... won't having 2 computers save time and disaster?  Because when i do updates it takes a long time and sometimes it may crash (blue screens) when I do a Windows Update.  It's not often but it happens and I have to use a system restore.  That would be a nightmare if i want to get back to doing the music.

So do you suggest not doing any updates and not having an anti-virus for the music only OS?  How about a one time update on a new machine to get a lot of the security patches in place? 

Still, I'm hesitant about using the same computer to serve two purposes when something can go wrong while doing updates on the OS for the internet and that doesn't include being hit with a virus.   So maybe 2 computers is better than 1.  Hopefully someone will have the best advice.

Ok, so if I already have a version of Windows installed - I can use the OS disk that came with my computer to install another copy of it onto my system?

Yes.  I used something called Boot Magic (which I bought in the 1990s with Partition Magic) to setup the multiboot.  But I think modern OSes let you do it from their install disks.  You need to install into a different partition.

That would be cool to set-up one OS w/ an antivirus for internet use and the other just for music.

In theory, it's cool.  But you [roughly] double the amount of time you have to spend maintaining and tweaking things.  It gets headachy after a while.  I don't plan on doing it again unless I absolutely have to.

But... won't having 2 computers save time and disaster?

Yes. Redundancy is good in that sense.  You can backup one computer's data to the other, and vice versa.  However, I already have a bunch of computers on my network (including a linux file server) and tons of redundancy in my backups, so the benefits of having a separate DAW and main PC are a lot less than if I only had 2 computers.

So do you suggest not doing any updates and not having an anti-virus for the music only OS?

I think the key is no *automatic* updates and antivirus.  Manual updates and scans are fine.  We just don't want anything kicking in during recording.

Hopefully someone will have the best advice.

My advice is to always have at least 2 computers on your network, so that they can backup to each other and if one breaks (or is busy burning CDs or DVDs or ghosting a partition or something that discourages multitasking), you can always use the other.

If you plan to upgrade your music pc, and are also thinking of upgrading your main pc (which you might use for general browsing and games), then you (and I) need to decide whether to:

a) upgrade 1 pc
-- use it for both music and general
-- if needed, keep the other pc for backup and slow stuff like browsing
-- CHEAPEST OPTION

b) upgrade both pcs
-- keep music on one and general on the other

c) buy 1 new pc
-- use it for both music and general
-- if needed, keep one or both of the old pcs for backup and slow stuff

d) buy 2 new pcs
-- keep music on one and general on the other
-- probably don't need either of the old ones unless you like having lots of computers
-- MOST EXPENSIVE OPTION

I don't know whether #b or #c is more expensive.  I guess it depends on how many parts need to be upgraded.

If you use a PC for both music and general/games, is the idea to have 2 sound cards, one for recording and one for everything else? 

Perhaps one reason to keep 2 sound cards is the speaker connections.

My Delta is connected to studio monitors, while my XFi is connected to surround-sound speakers.  I like the surround-sound for everyday stuff (including games), so I wouldn't want to lose it, but on the other hand, I also don't want to monitor my music on the surround sound because I don't trust it.

How do you have your speakers setup?

Also, I'm curious; what inspired you to ditch the Delta in favor of the MOTU?  Have you considered upgrading from XP to Win7, in order to better utilize that RAM?  Or are you happy your current setup?  Do you think Sonar X1 will put pressure on you to upgrade from the Q6600 to something more current?  (I'm considering upgrading to a Q6600 and wonder how long it'll keep me happy).

I'm thinking seriously about upgrading the DAW and then gradually getting all the games and work stuff on it as well, so that I end up with 1 PC.

The motherboard I'm considering only has 2 PCI slots (which is more than most).  The Delta needs 1, and my midi card needs 1.  That means there would be no room for the XFi, so to get surround-sound, I'd have to either use the motherboard's onboard audio, or buy a sound card which uses a PCI-express slot. 

So I'm wondering: what happens if I just use the Delta for everything, and forget about surround sound for now?  Can you play games with a "serious" audio card like the Delta or MOTU; will any Windows app work with it?

well, I'm not a gamer, but I do occassionally play games on my computer.  I don't miss having only a stereo response for games.  the output quality is MUCH better than the surround sound of the onboard soundcard.  the XFi, might be as good of quality for output as the Delta, tho.  but personally I don't need surround on my computer.

You can get updated drivers for your Delta sound card at the M-Audio website for just about all OS's.

 Yes you can game with no problem at all with your M-Audio, I thought I would miss EAX but I didn't even notice it, the days of a bad audio card slowing down the FPS in a game are long gone since DOS. My DAW is also a 3D gamer, I have a 3D HMD and a IZ3D monitor. All games play just as they did when I had my X-fi

Tripecac


Excellent, thanks for the info!

I'm definitely favoring the "all-in-one" solution at this point.  Other benefits:

- fewer machines to maintain
- fewer wires
- less power consumption (and therefore lower energy bills)
- I finally get to have a multi monitor setup for work! :)

I'm a bit scared about getting all the DAW, video, game, and work related apps functioning in 64 bit Windows 7.  So for that reason I think it's safest to buy a standalone PC and then getting everything working on it before retiring/repurposing the old ones.

I agree that is probably a wise choice.  Good luck!

Beagle


actually you don't need additional software to set up dual boot.  partition magic or other partitioning software makes it easier, but it's not necessary if you use a new hard drive or wipe the hard drive and start from scratch.  the windows installation for the new hard drive will help you thru installing on multiple partitions if you do it correctly.

I've done the dual boot system and, like tripecac, I did not like it because of having to wait for boot up on each system.  I did away with that fairly quickly.

 
While upgrading to Windows 7 not only is it easy to set up dual boot, sometimes it is accidental. Twice I have upgraded and ended up with dual boot systems. Both times Win7 installed to my secondary drive.