sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question

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Blerf
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2005/06/11 22:56:25 (permalink)

sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question

I record in 48000 24 bit my m-audio sound card is set to the same. heres the problem. When I record a guitar track vocal ect... it sounds great coming out of the monitors or headphones. When I play it back the sound quality is kinda muffled very slight but not as clear. What changes can I make or is this just what I am stuck with?

I run windows xp professional with nothing but sonar some plugins.
#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    daveny5
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 09:06:47 (permalink)
    Why are you using 48000? You should be using 44100. What soundcard are you using?

    Dave
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    #2
    Blerf
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 09:35:09 (permalink)
    m-audio firewire 410. I said that already My sound card can do 96000.

    I am not sure if what you are saying will help
    #3
    LoopJunkie
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 09:58:37 (permalink)
    1 - check your playback signal path vs. the recording signal path; anything (plugin/track EQ) different?
    2 - try 44100 - it's compatible with CD standard and usually the best

    loop

    #4
    Blerf
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 10:14:13 (permalink)
    so I should set both my sound card and sonar to 44100 24 bit?
    #5
    dreamkeeper
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 10:33:00 (permalink)
    Sample rate of your soundcard should be set automatically by the application, Sonar in this case.

    However I don't think that changing sample rate will help you with your problem. You should take Loop's advice and check your signal paths and EQ settings etc. There's no reason why the playback shouldn't sound as good as the recording. That said, it could be that you're listening to both in a different way or maybe the level is considerably higher while recording.
    #6
    Blerf
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 12:36:49 (permalink)
    well my soundcard is automatically set to 44100 so I changed it to the same in in sonar I do notice good difference in sound on playback. My soundcard says it will go all the way up to 96000 but keeps resetting to 44100 anyway. My friend told me to set 48000 24 bit for best sound in sonar but since sonar tells my soundcard 44100 and I changed sonar to 48000 then thats where the problem must have started .

    How do I check playback signal path?


    thanks for the help
    post edited by Blerf - 2005/06/12 12:40:55
    #7
    LoopJunkie
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 12:44:39 (permalink)
    My friend told me to set 48000 24 bit for best sound


    Ah, so he's the expert - he may be right for a Soundblaster or any Creative card

    How do I check playback signal path?


    Just see how your signal flows, e.g. track to bus to master to mixer (w/ active aux send/return or insert FX) to amp to speaker .... something may be inserted in the path at each step.

    loop

    #8
    dreamkeeper
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 13:05:18 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Blerf

    My friend told me to set 48000 24 bit for best sound

    Well, 24 bit is Ok! 48kHz won't give you initially that much more quality, but can lead to sound degradation due to artefacts when converting to 44.1kHz CD format. For very high quality recording you can use 88.2kHz if your computer can manage the CPU load. The latter won't give you conversion artefacts.

    How do I check playback signal path?

    Is your track output changed for playback? Maybe goes to a bus with EQ on it or the like? Does audio-out go through other channels (mixer, control-room matrix etc.) during playback? Do you change any connections between recording and playback?

    Make sure, you're monitoring with the same levels on recording and playback. Even small changes can fool your ear, louder usually sounds better.

    werner

    edit: Aww... way too slow - I'm getting old.
    post edited by dreamkeeper - 2005/06/12 13:09:36
    #9
    John
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 13:11:10 (permalink)
    I never use 48k. It is just another conversion that will have to be done to get to CD. There is no benifit to it. If you use 96k fine, there is a benifit there and is worth the conversion. 48k is just a PITA. Use 41k if you don't need to use 96k.

    Best
    John
    #10
    dreamkeeper
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 13:16:32 (permalink)
    48k is just a PITA. Use 41k if you don't need to use 96k.

    Just so noone gets confused: must be 44.1k.
    #11
    Blerf
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 13:24:11 (permalink)
    You guys are awesome. very helpful


    my setup is more for pre production very simple.

    I dont use any aux singnals infact I have all things muted on my soundcard but the headphone,monitor and main analog out.I have the soundcard buffer set to 285 for the moment and the buffers in sonar set to 1000. I go from my soundcard right into my laptop and use direct monitoring out of my berhinger truth monitors which sound amazing by the way. closest thing to a genelec that I have heard. In order to hear effects when I am playing I have to click the yellow echo on button but then deal with 5.3 ms of latency which is ok. I have an ART 215 preamp compressor and eq which is amazing for vocals and should be for Bass as well but thats it. Its always been easier to produce and leave this up to engineers but at home I am all alone.

    #12
    dreamkeeper
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 14:07:46 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Blerf

    soundcard buffer set to 285

    You mean 285 samples? (or is it 256?) That should be Ok!

    buffers in sonar set to 1000

    I/O buffers in audio options > advanced? If so, that's a bit high, 256 should be sufficient. Or did you adjust DMA buffer sizes in audio options > driver profiles? The latter you shouldn't do. (Of course, if you're running in ASIO mode, that would be irrelevant.)

    hmmmmm....
    #13
    daveny5
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 16:02:54 (permalink)
    And yet I told him to set it to 44100 and get no credit for the "good difference in sound on playback". Sheesh!

    By the way what is Blerf? I think that's the sound I make after one too many Heinekens.
    post edited by daveny5 - 2005/06/12 16:07:15

    Dave
    Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F
    Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX
    Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic.
    Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. 
    Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
    #14
    LoopJunkie
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 19:39:24 (permalink)
    And yet I told him to set it to 44100 and get no credit for the "good difference in sound on playback". Sheesh!


    Some folks need telling more than once

    loop

    #15
    Blerf
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 21:53:29 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: LoopJunkie

    And yet I told him to set it to 44100 and get no credit for the "good difference in sound on playback". Sheesh!


    Some folks need telling more than once


    Thanks for the tip. I have to make sure its not placibo but I think that was the answer.
    #16
    thunderkyss
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 22:13:51 (permalink)
    I still don't see why setting to 48K could be causing the problem If the soundcard can operate at 48K, If Sonar is set to recieve 48K, there shouldn't be a problem.

    Also, remember that what you are hearing, isn't necesarrily what is being recorded. what do your recording meters look like?? when you record...what kinda levels are you seeing??

    #17
    Blerf
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 22:29:02 (permalink)
    Sonar changes my soundcard back to 44100 so when I was in sonar ,choosing 48000 was not the same as my card. I think that cant be good. They should be the same. My levels are fine no clipping. Playback is the same as I hear it so I think its fixed. I have very anal ears in the studio so most people dont hear or complain about what i do but I know its there. Im talking about a slight haze over the sound on playback.

    Another trick I learned to give some headroom is to lower the volume of the track -5db. After I record I can turn it up louder without having to use trim which distorts tracks. I set my soundcard input to about half way also to avoid clipping.
    post edited by Blerf - 2005/06/12 22:34:00
    #18
    thunderkyss
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/12 23:02:31 (permalink)
    so have you tried to set sonar to 48K, and set your sound card to 48K??

    #19
    Blerf
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    RE: sonar 3 producers addition sound quality question 2005/06/13 00:13:19 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: thunderkyss

    so have you tried to set sonar to 48K, and set your sound card to 48K??


    yes thats what I tried from the beginning but my soundcard would always change back to
    44100 leaving me with an uneven match. I could call M-audio on that I guess but its 1 less conversion I have to deal with later.
    #20
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