paul jenkins
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sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
I dont want just have a library of loops, i want to be able to build loops from the ground up
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/24 18:13:20
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I agree such things are easier/more intuitive with Fl, but it's pretty simple to do in Sonar. FL does not have much in terms of building loops that Sonar does not have. The basic default structure is step sequencer integrated with basic sampler on each channel. Like Sonar, editing can also be done on piana roll. To set up something similar one could Build a template with multiple instances of dropzone and or combinations of dropzone and and Session Drummer 3 and step sequencer. The only thing FL has that would be super labor intensive to replicate would be loop mangling plugins like Grossbeat.
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mdages
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/25 10:28:53
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Sonar already have good tools like Audiosnap, Grooveclip and the Matrix to build an play loops. Especially the "Matrix" is a very nice tool to create beats and patterns with audioclips.
_Markus
music is just a sequence of sounds... Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson) Cubase Pro 9.5 Windows 10 x64 German Core i7, 12GB RAM - 5 TB HDD/SSD Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Studiologic Acuna 88 VSL VE-Pro with windows slave computers
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forkol
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/25 11:07:33
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dubdisciple
I agree such things are easier/more intuitive with Fl, but it's pretty simple to do in Sonar. FL does not have much in terms of building loops that Sonar does not have. The basic default structure is step sequencer integrated with basic sampler on each channel. Like Sonar, editing can also be done on piana roll. To set up something similar one could Build a template with multiple instances of dropzone and or combinations of dropzone and and Session Drummer 3 and step sequencer. The only thing FL has that would be super labor intensive to replicate would be loop mangling plugins like Grossbeat.
I don't feel that this is the case at all. It's not all that simple in Sonar, especailly compared to some of the tools in FL or other DAW's. Tools like Dropzone, Cyclone and Session Drummer all are quite limited. Dropzone only supports two sounds, and no editing and limited ADSR. Cyclone does has 16 pads, but only supports WAV, and the editor is really hard to use, Session Drummer has no ADSR or looping features. I think a basic sampler that can do at least what Simpler/Sampler, DirectWave, or EXS24 can do should be included in Sonar at least for basic use, without having to shell out for Kontakt. Splitting samples into beats is pretty cumbersome, too. IIRC, you have to get Audiosnap, then cut and trim, and then finally move each beat into a sampler. Contrast that with most DAW's where it automatically does this for you and creates an instrument track with your split beats in it and creates MIDI to trigger it. I'm not saying you can't do it in Sonar, it just seems to me, and it has for a long time, that the tools that we have in Sonar seems archaic and vastly underpowered to what other competivive DAWs are offering right now.
post edited by forkol - 2015/02/25 11:25:42
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mdages
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/25 11:53:41
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forkol
Splitting samples into beats is pretty cumbersome, too. IIRC, you have to get Audiosnap, then cut and trim, and then finally move each beat into a sampler. Contrast that with most DAW's where it automatically does this for you and creates and instrument track with your split beats in it and creates MIDI to trigger it.
I know some other DAW's like Pro Tools or Studio One, and none of them can automatically split, cut and trim samples to a beat you want. And don't forget Sonar Matrix to play the beats, combine them, midi trigger them etc. In Sonar it's really very easy to cut, split and trim samples. For most basic trim- and looping, Audiosnap is not neccesary. A few simple steps with tab key and the smart tool can do very much. Drag and drop to Matrix and you're ready to play and trigger. But yes, FL is more focused on loops and beats and maybe contains some more specialized tools. The last what I want from Sonar is to become a FL clone. Maybe check out some third party tools. Transfuser from Air Music is a very powerful tool to play and mangle audioloops and is available as VST plugin. _Markus
music is just a sequence of sounds... Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson) Cubase Pro 9.5 Windows 10 x64 German Core i7, 12GB RAM - 5 TB HDD/SSD Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Studiologic Acuna 88 VSL VE-Pro with windows slave computers
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forkol
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/25 12:58:31
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mdages
I know some other DAW's like Pro Tools or Studio One, and none of them can automatically split, cut and trim samples to a beat you want.
Actually, ProTools can, you use Beat Detective to do that, then you can drag the whole lot into Structure, already all key mapped. Which is still better than Sonar. Studio One I can't tell, but at least you can split clips manually and then drop into Impact, which has effects and filters per pad, and supports 16 pads. You would need at least 8 Dropzones to do the equivalent.
And don't forget Sonar Matrix to play the beats, combine them, midi trigger them etc.
In Sonar it's really very easy to cut, split and trim samples. For most basic trim- and looping, Audiosnap is not neccesary. A few simple steps with tab key and the smart tool can do very much. Drag and drop to Matrix and you're ready to play and trigger.
If that's all you want to do, yes. But most producers want to add effects, trim start/end times, set loop points, apply ADSR envelopes to individual sample pads (especially drumpads!). I guess you would have to set separate tracks, or at least, do clip effects, which is much more cumbersome and time-consuming.
But yes, FL is more focused on loops and beats and maybe contains some more specialized tools.
The last what I want from Sonar is to become a FL clone.
I'm not saying to make it a clone, all I'm asking is to get at least to the level that other major DAWs are at. Cakewalk was headed in the direction when it developed Beatscape, but it was only half-finished, and then dropped. They can bring that back, add some basic looping/editing functions and add some basic effects. Then I would create a feature addition to Audiosnap that would automatically split on Audiosnap markers and create an Instrument track with this instrument on it.
Maybe check out some third party tools. Transfuser from Air Music is a very powerful tool to play and mangle audioloops and is available as VST plugin.
_Markus
Of course, I've done that. I have Komplete as well as some of FL's tools like Edison and Slicex added to Sonar. But I still think that Sonar should be more competitive in this regard.
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mdages
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/25 19:46:48
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Pro Tools Beat Detective is a good tool, but not a full automatic loop maker. It's more like Audiosnap. And Structure, omg, worked with it for several years and imo also really cumbersome. Btw, Structure is a third party program by Air music and can be bought as a VSTi plugin for Sonar too. Studio One's Impact is nice and easy, but also very basic and limited. In Sonar you can also split clips manually very easy and put them on to the matrix by drag & drop. Each row in matrix can be routed to different outputs and you can use any vst fx on them. Very easy to do, but yes, no so powerful like a real drumpad beatmachine as NI Battery or Machine. Cakewalk could do some features in that area better, but I don't think they want Sonar to be a competitor to NI Machine or Air Transfuser. Do you want that Sonar become a beat machine, or do you want Sonar should be bundled and sold with a better beatmachine vsti? I agree, Cakewalk could improve Dropzone or make something easy like Studio One's Impact. Imo, if you want a real beat slice, mangle, play etc. tool, go and buy a good 3rd party program to do that. That's almost a better option as most DAW bundled plugins.  _Markus
music is just a sequence of sounds... Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson) Cubase Pro 9.5 Windows 10 x64 German Core i7, 12GB RAM - 5 TB HDD/SSD Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Studiologic Acuna 88 VSL VE-Pro with windows slave computers
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Kylotan
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/26 06:38:25
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What is lacking from Sonar's Step Sequencer for this?
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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sharke
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/26 16:03:44
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As a long time Geist user I guess I'm spoiled and could never go back to beat making with Sonar's stock tools. It would be great if Cakewalk could cut a deal with fxpansion to include Geist with Sonar, if even a scaled down version. Addictive Drums is great but I've always felt Cakewalk needs to do more to appeal to the electronic/EDM crowd. One tour of the forums (in particular the songs forum) is enough to tell you that Sonar's user base seems heavily weighted to the older crowd who specialize in more traditional styles like rock, jazz and country. I'm not knocking this at all - as a guy in my early 40's I feel drawn to both modern electronic and traditional styles. But I think the home studio demographic is shifting to the way of electronic beats and synths, and Cakewalk must be aware that they'll have to do more for this crowd to push forward.
It's not that I don't think Sonar is suitable for creating electronic styles. That's the bulk of my hobby and I think Sonar is an excellent tool for any style. But my immediate impression was to wonder if I'd made the right choice instead of opting for something like Abelton. I know better now, but I very nearly did reject Sonar because of what I perceived was a lack of support for the styles of music I had in mind.
Anyway look out for Geist on sale. It's a serious piece of kit which is almost everything you could ever need for loop and beat creation.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/26 18:36:35
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Forkol, Adding 8 dropzones seems cumbersome, but Fl studio is doing just that, it' just more under the hood. I applaud the integration, but at the end of the day each fl default channel is still a seperate instance of step sequencer sampler combo. I'm not claiming going the setup multiple dropzones is as easy but the functionality is there evenif convoluted. Do I work that way? **** no! Like sharke, I use Geist which gives me pretty much the drum sampler sequencer features of FL with some bonuses. I just mentioned options for those trying to stay within the limits of Sonar. Although I primarily use Geist for these type of things, I occasionally dip into other ways because it helps stimulate creativity to try a new approach. One of the tendencies I notice with many of the people I encounter that use Fl is a tendency to sound alike. Take Trap beats for instance. If I hear one more track using the exact drum kit, synth presets, rolled snare pattern (using the exact same snare sample), etc, I will scream. Every now and then I will just use an instance of Z3ta or Rapture for my kick or even Session Drummer. The lack of effects in SD3 means i have to think about how i am shaping my drum samples and take control of every parameter.
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/26 18:40:42
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Kylotan
What is lacking from Sonar's Step Sequencer for this?
It's not that Sonar's step sequencer is lacking. I think fl users are just used to the integrated nature of how the step sequencer works. With Sonar you can't just drag a drum sample to a channel on step sequencer and run with it. Also, although I find Sonar's step sequencer adequate, I find the step sequencers in both Geist and FL a lot more intuitive.
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/26 18:47:57
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This thread does give me an idea. Perhaps I should make a template for Sonar for those accustomed to FL studio.
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mdages
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 08:12:14
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sharke
As a long time Geist user I guess I'm spoiled and could never go back to beat making with Sonar's stock tools. It would be great if Cakewalk could cut a deal with fxpansion to include Geist with Sonar, if even a scaled down version.
Yes, making a deal with fxpansion's Geist oder Air-Music Transfuser etc. could be a good way to achieve better beatmaking in Sonar. The tools in Sonar are good and for many things sufficient. For special needs, more focused 3rd party plugins are the better choice as internal DAW tools. Cakewalk is doing good job on developing Sonar, but most of their own effect or instrument plugins are not really good. So imo, good partnerships with other developers are a good way to improve the overall Sonar system. Overloud or XLN are good current strategic partners. I would like to see some more good partnerships, like fxpansion or the great Air Music Technology. Air was strategic partner and developer of great synths and tools for Digidesign until they were discharged by Avid. Their complete product lineup would fit very well to Sonar. _Markus
music is just a sequence of sounds... Sonar Platinum -> R.I.P (Shame on Gibson) Cubase Pro 9.5 Windows 10 x64 German Core i7, 12GB RAM - 5 TB HDD/SSD Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Studiologic Acuna 88 VSL VE-Pro with windows slave computers
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sharke
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 11:05:51
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Yeah Air Music Technology stuff is very good. I didn't use Pro Tools for very long but I enjoyed using Vacuum and all of the various Air plugins. As stock plugins they were of a very high quality.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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raymondm4
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 15:37:18
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I don't fully understand everything you are all speaking of because I use Sonar exclusively and have no experience with other brands. So please excuse me if I'm speaking off base or repeating other conversations.
As far as loops go, my issue is with the step sequencer.
If Sonar could simply add the ability to record beats on the fly directly into the step sequencer without requiring you to record a midi then convert it to the step sequencer, it would be awesome. The "Step Record" function within the step sequencer has NO use as it currently is.
"Cakewalk, please alow the "step record" to run freely as if you pressed play and allow us to tap pads on our controller to enter beats onto the sequencer."
I don't understand the logic of the step record function staying in place until you tap, then only moving to the next step. Who creates beats like that? Not only would making this change be a small but great added feature, but it would allow us to connect electronic drums and record directly into the step sequencer. Recording into midi is OK, but I'm more old school guy and would love the ability to use Sonar like a traditional 808 or 909. It seems like a very simple feature request that would go along way to home studio producers having fun rather than doing work.
While I'm at it, it would also be cool to have a bounce to matrix function that could bounce all selected tracks to an chosen matrix project (like having two projects open, were one is a temporary project for creating loops and the other is a working matrix project for jamming and saving).
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 19:16:41
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raymondm4
I don't fully understand everything you are all speaking of because I use Sonar exclusively and have no experience with other brands. So please excuse me if I'm speaking off base or repeating other conversations.
As far as loops go, my issue is with the step sequencer.
If Sonar could simply add the ability to record beats on the fly directly into the step sequencer without requiring you to record a midi then convert it to the step sequencer, it would be awesome. The "Step Record" function within the step sequencer has NO use as it currently is.
"Cakewalk, please alow the "step record" to run freely as if you pressed play and allow us to tap pads on our controller to enter beats onto the sequencer."
I don't understand the logic of the step record function staying in place until you tap, then only moving to the next step. Who creates beats like that? Not only would making this change be a small but great added feature, but it would allow us to connect electronic drums and record directly into the step sequencer. Recording into midi is OK, but I'm more old school guy and would love the ability to use Sonar like a traditional 808 or 909. It seems like a very simple feature request that would go along way to home studio producers having fun rather than doing work.
While I'm at it, it would also be cool to have a bounce to matrix function that could bounce all selected tracks to an chosen matrix project (like having two projects open, were one is a temporary project for creating loops and the other is a working matrix project for jamming and saving).
I'm just guessing but i think the step record feature was supposed to work the way a drum machine in step mode works. It was a rarely used mode even on drum machines but i do recall it having some use like being able to step-through" the beat to find errors. I still have an HR-16 that has a "step record mode".This was also present in other post 808/909 machines like the Roland R8 and 505. The idea was to be able to cycle through a loop one step at a time to make fixes. A simple application on a drum machine was for those who preferred to input beats live, one could go into step record mode and add a kick on the downbeat before doing the rest live. In other words, i don't think it's mislabeled or poorly implemented, but a feature that had uses on a small LCD grid but becomes obsolete on a computer. Sonar's "mistake" if you want to call it that was trying to make the step sequencer to true to old drum machine step sequencers. Every old school drum machine i had either had a step mode or a live record mode with no in between mode. So the answer to the "who creates beats like this?" is guys who had drum machines in the late 80's and early 90's. Nobody i know of does it now
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 19:23:07
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I think part of the problem with comparing some of the features in Sonar to other applications is the comparisons are often made between features that are not really the same thing. You could no more record audio directly from Sonar's step sequencer than you could record audio from the piano roll. The piano roll merely tells the VST what to play, how long to play it, etc. the step sequencer does the same thing but far more limited. The step sequencer is pure step sequencer and nothing else. If anything like FL or a step sequencer drum machine /sampler were to come a bout from Cakewalk, i doubt it would be based on the current step sequencer since it would be an attempt to re-purpose a very simple midi based sequencer into something it is not even close to being.
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sharke
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 19:34:15
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raymondm4
I don't fully understand everything you are all speaking of because I use Sonar exclusively and have no experience with other brands. So please excuse me if I'm speaking off base or repeating other conversations.
As far as loops go, my issue is with the step sequencer.
If Sonar could simply add the ability to record beats on the fly directly into the step sequencer without requiring you to record a midi then convert it to the step sequencer, it would be awesome. The "Step Record" function within the step sequencer has NO use as it currently is.
"Cakewalk, please alow the "step record" to run freely as if you pressed play and allow us to tap pads on our controller to enter beats onto the sequencer."
I don't understand the logic of the step record function staying in place until you tap, then only moving to the next step. Who creates beats like that? Not only would making this change be a small but great added feature, but it would allow us to connect electronic drums and record directly into the step sequencer. Recording into midi is OK, but I'm more old school guy and would love the ability to use Sonar like a traditional 808 or 909. It seems like a very simple feature request that would go along way to home studio producers having fun rather than doing work.
While I'm at it, it would also be cool to have a bounce to matrix function that could bounce all selected tracks to an chosen matrix project (like having two projects open, were one is a temporary project for creating loops and the other is a working matrix project for jamming and saving).
I agree there should be a tailor made way to do exactly as you describe. Currently what I would do to record a 2 bar step sequencer loop (if I had to) is this: - Turn on input quantize to, say, 16th notes
- Set up a 2 bar loop
- Make sure that the recording mode is set to "sound on sound"
- Start recording
- Put down the kick part, then put down the snare and hats on successive iterations of the loop
- Lasso all of the clips that are created
- Bounce to clip
- Open in step sequencer
What a pain! It's incredible that the record function in the step sequencer doesn't just loop the steps and let you record directly into them. I've never used step recording either because for the life of me I can't find a use for it in my workflow. Of course it goes without saying that Geist excels at this.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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sharke
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 19:37:22
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dubdisciple
I think part of the problem with comparing some of the features in Sonar to other applications is the comparisons are often made between features that are not really the same thing. You could no more record audio directly from Sonar's step sequencer than you could record audio from the piano roll. The piano roll merely tells the VST what to play, how long to play it, etc. the step sequencer does the same thing but far more limited. The step sequencer is pure step sequencer and nothing else. If anything like FL or a step sequencer drum machine /sampler were to come a bout from Cakewalk, i doubt it would be based on the current step sequencer since it would be an attempt to re-purpose a very simple midi based sequencer into something it is not even close to being.
I get what you're saying, but I don't really see why they couldn't implement the ability to record into the step sequencer just like you can record to MIDI. If you click "play" in the step sequencer, it throws a loop around the clip in question and loops it. If it can do that, then why not let you record events into it as it's looping?
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 22:52:33
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sharke
I get what you're saying, but I don't really see why they couldn't implement the ability to record into the step sequencer just like you can record to MIDI. If you click "play" in the step sequencer, it throws a loop around the clip in question and loops it. If it can do that, then why not let you record events into it as it's looping?
I wasn't so much denying it sucks as is. I was more explaining that it is working how it was designed. An old school step sequencer would not let you record in that manner either.b I think the designers failed to factor in that just because people like buying vintage plugins in feature, does not mean they want them to be 100% accurate. Even people who owned drum machines that worked in that way have no desire to create like that on eve nthe most nostalgic days. Even when I drag out my HR16, I never touch the step record mode.
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sharke
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/27 23:55:02
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dubdisciple
sharke
I get what you're saying, but I don't really see why they couldn't implement the ability to record into the step sequencer just like you can record to MIDI. If you click "play" in the step sequencer, it throws a loop around the clip in question and loops it. If it can do that, then why not let you record events into it as it's looping?
I wasn't so much denying it sucks as is. I was more explaining that it is working how it was designed. An old school step sequencer would not let you record in that manner either.b I think the designers failed to factor in that just because people like buying vintage plugins in feature, does not mean they want them to be 100% accurate. Even people who owned drum machines that worked in that way have no desire to create like that on eve nthe most nostalgic days. Even when I drag out my HR16, I never touch the step record mode.
Developers go nuts trying to recreate every aspect in an emulation. Look at the analog plugins that introduce electrical hum etc, as if that was actually part of the appeal of the original unit. It's crazy. Then you have analog emulations which faithfully reproduce design limitations when there is really no benefit to doing so, for instance the MiniMoog emulator Monark could quite easily have implemented semitone increments in the oscillator tuning knobs and synced modulation, but they left it out to remain true to the original. My thought is "our computers have the power to give us the best of both worlds, so why not?"
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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raymondm4
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/28 01:40:45
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dubdisciple
I'm just guessing but i think the step record feature was supposed to work the way a drum machine in step mode works. It was a rarely used mode even on drum machines but i do recall it having some use like being able to step-through" the beat to find errors. I still have an HR-16 that has a "step record mode".This was also present in other post 808/909 machines like the Roland R8 and 505. The idea was to be able to cycle through a loop one step at a time to make fixes. A simple application on a drum machine was for those who preferred to input beats live, one could go into step record mode and add a kick on the downbeat before doing the rest live. In other words, i don't think it's mislabeled or poorly implemented, but a feature that had uses on a small LCD grid but becomes obsolete on a computer. Sonar's "mistake" if you want to call it that was trying to make the step sequencer to true to old drum machine step sequencers. Every old school drum machine i had either had a step mode or a live record mode with no in between mode. So the answer to the "who creates beats like this?" is guys who had drum machines in the late 80's and early 90's. Nobody i know of does it now
I understand the step record thing. Thank you for the explanation. My entire issue is that if they were staying true to a step sequencer in a drum machine, then why not have the ability to record live? Less like the 808 and more like the HR-16. It's like emulating a grand piano without any keys.
post edited by raymondm4 - 2015/02/28 02:06:12
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/28 03:52:21
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Hence why i use geist instead. Cakewalk has not attempted a new instrument from the ground up since beatscape and that was a colossal flop.
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Kylotan
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/28 05:04:19
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dubdisciple
Kylotan
What is lacking from Sonar's Step Sequencer for this?
It's not that Sonar's step sequencer is lacking. I think fl users are just used to the integrated nature of how the step sequencer works. With Sonar you can't just drag a drum sample to a channel on step sequencer and run with it. Also, although I find Sonar's step sequencer adequate, I find the step sequencers in both Geist and FL a lot more intuitive.
Ah, yes. From the perspective of someone who uses drum maps already, the step sequencer in Sonar seems quite nifty. But if I compare that to my days using FL Studio (just installed version 11 yesterday, in fact - mostly to get Poizone working properly with Sonar, though!), the step sequencer there is so much easier to use. I expect there are a bunch of ways they could improve it in Sonar - automatic drum map generation when you drag samples in, or setting up a sampler synth inside it. But sadly, like the Matrix View, it's probably going to stay neglected in favour of shipping a bunch of pseudo-analogue ProChannel effects...
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Spencer
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/28 16:28:59
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I'm heavily against the inclusion of sampler or drum machine instruments in sonar, UNLESS they are third party developed and do not influence the current price of sonar. It's much better to leave the user with the choice of instruments, which cakewalk couldn't surpass anyway (let's be honest battery 3 (or geist, I guess) and kontakt are ultimate pieces of software that you would be a fool to try and compete with) AND there are MUCH more important missing features that cakewalk needs to implement in the core program for electronic music anyway.
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sharke
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/28 17:31:15
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Spencer
I'm heavily against the inclusion of sampler or drum machine instruments in sonar, UNLESS they are third party developed and do not influence the current price of sonar. It's much better to leave the user with the choice of instruments, which cakewalk couldn't surpass anyway (let's be honest battery 3 (or geist, I guess) and kontakt are ultimate pieces of software that you would be a fool to try and compete with) AND there are MUCH more important missing features that cakewalk needs to implement in the core program for electronic music anyway.
DAW's have to include software "freebies" now to compete. What comes included in a package deal is always going to be a heavy influence in sales. I see no reason why they couldn't tailor make 2 or 3 different packages for different styles. For instance one package which contains AD and other things geared toward more traditional styles, and another package which contains instruments more geared toward modern electronic styles.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Spencer
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/28 18:41:11
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Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying. If they want to cut a deal with NI or fxpansion for bundles, all the better. MUX should be bundled with platinum as far as I'm concerned, in an ideal world. If however, for whatever unfortunate reason, I start hearing about cakewalk devoting development resources into instruments, instead of some core features that have been desperately needed for ages and eons, there is no measure to the amount of complaining that I will do about it.
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/02/28 22:00:54
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I'm not against them doing it since the advantage of programs like Fl is that the integration makes certain things far more intuitive than even the best third party products could achieve. Imagine if you just drop samples into step sequencer channels. Or better yet, slice loops on the fly and map them to seperate channels. Many possibilities, I just know thatin order to achive that kind of seamless interaction, it would likely require core code changes.
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Spencer
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/03/01 00:35:20
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There's no difference. Dropping samples into battery and then opening up the step sequencer achieves the same thing. Except battery is a hell of a lot better than fl's integrated sample player or ableton's drum rack. There's already a ghetto option: session drummer and it's more than enough.
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dubdisciple
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Re: sonar should come with a beat building machine like fruityloops, so can build loops
2015/03/01 00:54:20
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Spencer
There's no difference. Dropping samples into battery and then opening up the step sequencer achieves the same thing. Except battery is a hell of a lot better than fl's integrated sample player or ableton's drum rack. There's already a ghetto option: session drummer and it's more than enough.
I don't think session drummer is anywhere near fl or ableton drum rack. If it were we would not be having this convo. I know a lot of people love battery but it's not for everybody. I know of more than a few battery owners who still opted for other solutions. I looked at battery myself and decided it ecexceled in certain areas but not the ones i needed.
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