Helpful Replysonar x3 bit depth and sample rate

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viziovizio
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2016/02/24 19:22:19 (permalink)

sonar x3 bit depth and sample rate

I am having a problem finding a bit depth  and sample rate  thatworks. I love recording at 24 bit 410000 but due to my  my busy 2 bus and and master bus full of all the slate and wave plugins i enjoy mixing into i am forced to record at 16 bit   which seems to distort easier . Does anyone else  find their selves recording  at rates too low in order to have use of a lot more plugins in the recording template that works for them?
 I7 64 bit 16 gig  sp1 studio capture waves gold . Ssl.fabfilter bundle.slate bundle
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    mudgel
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    Re: sonar x3 bit depth and sample rate 2016/02/24 23:56:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/25 04:36:59
    The number of plugins you use does not determine the bit depth of your project. If your sound device can manage 24 bit then that's what you should be on.

    Sample rate is another factor. The lower your sample rate the higher the latency will be relatively speaking. As you increase sample rates your CPU will have to work harder but you can achieve smaller latency.

    It's a balancing act determined by your audio device drivers and your CPU mostly. YOu may want to reexamine why you have so many plugins at that end of your project that it effects your ability work properly.

    When you use lots of plugins you may have to archive tracks that have already been printed or bypass fx on those tracks or increase your buffers. Depending on your sound card, buffers may be expressed as samples eg, 32, 48, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048 and 4096. Or milliseconds of latency

    So change your latency setting. Not your sample rate or bit depth.

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    tenfoot
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    Re: sonar x3 bit depth and sample rate 2016/02/25 07:37:06 (permalink)
    On the other hand there is nothing at all wrong with recording @ 16bit if it allows you to use more plugins to get the sound that you want. That's all that really matters. The idea that recording @ 24bit will make everything better is flawed on many levels. Once you hit 16 bits the law of diminishing returns certainly kicks in. 
    post edited by tenfoot - 2016/02/25 07:51:55

    Bruce.
     
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    drewfx1
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    Re: sonar x3 bit depth and sample rate 2016/02/25 13:09:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/02/25 20:04:23
    1. Sonar does not do any processing at either 16 bit or 24 bit internally. Everything is converted to either 32 bit floating point or 64 bit double precision floating point for processing by Sonar. The 16/24 question applies to your audio interface only.
     
    2. Plugins process at whatever bit depth the plugin's authors determined was appropriate, and this may vary for different operations inside of the plugin.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    MondoArt
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    Re: sonar x3 bit depth and sample rate 2016/02/25 15:04:07 (permalink)
    OP: I don't understand why you're "forced" to go to 16-bit. Your PC should be able to handle as many plug-ins as you want in 24-bit. I'm running an i5 with half the RAM, and I'm fine at 24/44.1. If you're distorting, either in 16 or 24-bit, you're just recording too loud or adding too much gain through your plug-ins.  Gain staging is everything.
     
    Personally, I shoot for peaks at -12 dB while recording, and adjust softsynth outputs accordingly. With that much headroom, I can use all the plug-ins I want, and the master bus doesn't clip.  If it gets close to clipping, bring down all your track faders.  Adjust the output of plug-ins so they are gain neutral (peak level going in = peak level going out).
     
    Save the final volume boost to the master limiting stage. Anything before that should never be that loud.

    Neel
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    viziovizio
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    Re: sonar x3 bit depth and sample rate 2016/02/27 11:39:42 (permalink)
    thank you for the input.
     i am not forced to record at 16 - 41000, but to use the master bus and mix bus that works for me i have noticed that if i dummy down to 16 41000 i am able to use the fx i like to get to the mastering stage much faster. i would much rather be recording at like 24/48k but it's not possible with what i am putting on the buses.
     i compare an older mix the the same song done with higher sampling rate , but missing the busy mix bus and i have to admit the lower sampling rate and lower bit depth control group sounds more clean once i put it in sound forge. it's a whole lot closer to the mastering stage than the experimental group.(24-41k exported w/ less f/x on the mix bus)
      i love sonar, and i don't have any plans on changing to any other daws but my ears do hear a difference in for example...the sonar 76 compressor and the waves 76 black. same with the sonar L1 limiter and the waves L1. I could go on and on, but i am not here to disrespect sonar f/x.(i am sure some die-hards would like to burn me to the stake for such statements) the simple fact for me is that if i enjoyed the tones of just sonar plugins, i wouldn't be asking if anyone else has this issue.
       as another experiment i downloaded a free copy of reaper and tried to record the same way. sonar's buffers were way more forgiving. one week straight of learning reapers options resulted in a song that skips and sputters worse than sonar x1a.
       i did enjoy the way you can change reaper's layout though. would love to see sonar go to this so that you could rearrange the layout of the sky view.(the small f/x bin would be twice as long, that way when you make your buses skinny you could still see all the fx on each track, and they wouldn't be hidden in a pro channel that only pops up when you click on it individually.
      on another note i am not recording too loud. just stating that it goes to distortion much easier at 16/41k.
    my peeks at at -7.
      i am aware of how to archive, but choosing not to unless i really have to. it really takes from the flow of mixing.who really wants to record like this? feeling is empty when you mix this way.
     bruce what settings do you record at?
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    viziovizio
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    Re: sonar x3 bit depth and sample rate 2016/02/27 11:53:58 (permalink)

     
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