they just should finally ship their product with a dongle - thats it!
and they should print it on the box "not resellable" - because i am pretty sure that NO shop would take back the software after one has opened the box --- so again we reach the aspect of unilateral disadvantage for the user....

regards

I tried repeorting it but someone already did

wow - you must be sad guy :-) if you just dont get what the discussion is about just shut  up - i am not willing to discuss serious legal aspects of a contract with someone who is a narrow minded and obviously  little vulgar person - since i am very close to my master degree in law i think that i know what i talk about and your childisch and unreasonable angry emotions are completely a waste of time - if you feel sick because you lack of knowledge - than i feel sorry for you - but certainly i wont accept you posting such a diffamatory garbage - what do you know about "how i feel about sonar" and about anything else i do ? - you bring in the term "thievery"... are you on dope  - (should i send you a picture of my original software boxes???) you are just one of those "soldier mentality -guys" or one of those "simon says jump" and your only concern is "how high" ... if you just lack any notion that would entitle you to discuss about the rights of contracts and you also lack the capability of abstraction - please just stop making a fool of yourself

Now, now ... why don't you guys just take a break from getting at each other's throats (and at the same time give us ALL here a chance to read something that really matters to us ... fixing issues and making music).  Thanks.

papa2005


I didn't mean to start any global arguments. This issue has been hashed over multiple times on this forum. I was merely stating information that the EULA contains. Whether or not it's legal isn't my concern since I don't have any plans to transfer the license to another party. I've not called anyone a "thief" or insinuated such.

i know you didnt :-)
but the tone of some others here is too harsh and i see no reason for not defending my point of view.
 
 
regards

CJaysMusic

yeah you freak - i reported my own posting cos i wanted someone of the cakestuff to share their opinion with us - insted you should have reported the guy who called me all sort of things (inluding !"thievery") you btw. cj are the saddest of them all here...

Someone repoted this one also. Im too slow today.... your on a roll info
Cj

i thought (wished) you had already banned me since ages - so id be save from your self complacement... i refuse to downscale myself to this kindergarten-cop-attitude.
you are also one of those who doesnt get the sense of a discussion - because - as it seems - you know it all - and you know it best ... please leave us less enlightened people alone - i know that in your magnitide you could easily just laugh about all this...no need to bedrabble yourself...or wait - you LIKE being a squealer ??? (wow - thats uncool) ...btw: what do you expect from reporting stuff you dont like? (a candy for you or some "punishment" for me?) LOL
dont you have any founded opinions about the issue that is partially being discussed here?
 
 
 

Let me get this straight ... we are on a music software forum discussing/arguing contract and intellectual property law with people who are by and large musicians?  Wow, that's rich ... and what do you hope to accomplish?  The fact that you are "close" to your master's degree in law (I am reminded of Dr. Science on NPR - "I have a master's degree ... in law!"  Sorry, I couldn't resist - no offense intended) indicates that you are probably in a position to challenge contractual issues in ways that we lay folk would not/could not even dream of, and I'm sure you are chomping at the bit to get out and make the world a better place, a quest for which I hope you succeed.  Meanwhile, in the good ol' US of A, land of the free and home of the brave, there are any number of quirky little rules that we tend to follow just because "they are there", and I suppose EULAs associated with intellectual property are just one example.  I don't really care if Cakewalk's EULA is not worded to my satisfaction, because for the cost of the upgrade I just purchased, the software, in effect, is "disposable", and the fact that I have to throw it away or shelve it in the dust pile instead of giving it to my neighbor doesn't bother me in the least - I will certainly get my money's worth while I have it up and running.  That's probably why we seem complacent to people in other countries - we buy things, use them for a time, and then dispose of them, even though they may be perfectly good, because we don't want to trouble ourselves getting them fixed if they are broken, or we want the newest model instead.  Not only that, but we learn at an early age that law is expensive to challenge in this country, and in most cases it is not in the best interest of an individual to pursue such a challenge at his own expense.  That, and the fact that most things we buy in this country have "planned obsolescense" built in, contribute to the notion that we are complacent, and to an extent we probably are.  But, in the meantime, I will continue to drive between the lines, I won't step on a crack and break my momma's back, and I will use Sonar knowing that when version 9 comes out I can get a nice, cheap upgrade that will have more goodies in it for me to play with.

I think the topic of licensing and EULAs is a natural "hot button" on this and other forums as well, largely because a lot of people who play by the rules and buy their software despise the low-lives who dabble in warez and other illegal activities.  To even suggest that a EULA or licensing agreement has flaws that could/should/may be exploited is almost sure to guarantee a good fight, if not an all-out war, no matter how civilized you try to be.  I do think a lot of good points were raised, and I think that software/intellectual property in general is a hot topic that everyone in the industry is still grappling with, as it is certainly not perfect.  I wouldn't take any of the forum "flame-throwing" personally, as I think folks may have misunderstood the context of the discussion.  Heck, I almost did, until I read through it a couple of times.  Who knows, maybe you will be the guy who devises the perfect system and finally puts the whole topic to rest.

FastBikerBoy


This has got to be one of the most entertaining threads I've ever read.

The OP asks a perfectly reasonable question, gets an answer and thanks the respondent, all in 3 minutes.

5 days later and the thread's still going having gone through the pros and cons of carrying knives, several forum lawyers opinions, and all topped off with a few good insults....... and the OP hasn't been heard of since.

I'd normally have to pay for entertainment like this..........
 
 

should i send you my account number ;-) 
at least two satisfied guys: the op and you !!! LOL

So all you folks out there with old versions of Sonar...
What do you do with them?
If you have 8.5 installed I assume you never use 2, 3, 4, etc..

The old software is perfectly useable.

Why not give it to someone who will make use of it.
So what if they can't upgrade... I'm sure they'll be happy paying you a few small $$ or ££ for some decent software.
If you don't want to accept their money give it to them for nothing, or send the money to a charity, or even send it off to Cakewalk so they can do more research.


If I have software (any software) that I no longer use, no longer have installed, no longer intend to use, don't wish to make a copy of etc., then why-oh-why do I need to keep it in a cupboard gathering dust.
Why can't I let someone else use it... that's the part I don't understand.

info@tomflair.com

2

stratman70

info@tomflair.com

Beagle


justification.  that's what everyone who does something illegal, immoral or unethical always does to qualify their actions.

But... we only agree to the license when we actually install the software.
If the software is fully uninstalled is the license still valid?

YES!  apparently you didn't read the EULA (even though you agreed that you did).  the license is sold to YOU and you are not allowed to transfer it.  and you agreed to that EULA when you checked the 2 boxes in the installation process.  again - you agreed to the license which is explicitly stated in the agreement that it is not transferrable.  show enough integrity to follow through with the promise that you made.  If you don't agree with it, then don't buy any more cakewalk software and don't ever agree to that EULA again.  but keep the promises that you made otherwise you're just a cheap liar. 

The thing is if I upgrade, then I'll still have Sonar 7 in a box doing nothing.
The software will no longer be installed on my PC.
It will be in a box gathering dust.
Some folks probably have versions 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 in boxes, uninstalled, doing nothing, gathering dust!

by this reasoning then you should pay FULL PRICE for all of your versions and never pay upgrade price. 

that's exactly why cakewalk doesn't allow transfer of licenses - because they offer upgrade prices for full versions.  if they didn't offer upgrade prices then it would follow that license transfers would be completely appropriate.  but you're still getting "something for nothing" when you pay upgrade price, but sell your used FULL version.

you have an fascinating narrowminded view of what "laws" are for - also you probably have no clue about the relevance of singel resrtrictions contained by a major contract ...without going into detail - because i didnt study law in english but in german (and therfore its hard to be precise in this language) you are somwehow completely wrong bevause you talk about stuff like integrity and morality and so on - from that point of view i just could counter (and so does european jurisdiction) that the restriction we are talking about here is "immoral" ---- but why do i always feel the need to join in into this stupid discussion? thre is no songle reason to treat a license differebtly than a material good in this case - and if you are proud of being so moral that you advocate the (ripping off) limitation the bakers incude in their eula - then i just can say "good night"   btw.. this has been discussed so often here that i would be happy to see someone in europe to go to a court in order to have the (non valid restriction) formally removed from the eula (did you know that stuff like this happens on a daily basis - because big companies try to enforce unlawful agreements in their contracts...? well - probably you didnt...)

We are all well aware of how you feel about CW and Sonar-So sell all your c**p and go away. You "ALL" know what a software license is, so go justify your theivery somewhere else. It just P**s'es me off when I hear crap like this post. Why do you morons think we "MUSICIANS" have the strictest copyright baloney in the world. Because the companies figure all musicians think like you and PH and the others. Get real-Wake up and smell the "Pace"-You deserve it big time! Dongle! Sad thing is-most of us don't!
Very sore subject with me-Can you tell?

 
wow - you must be sad guy :-) if you just dont get what the discussion is about just shut  up - i am not willing to discuss serious legal aspects of a contract with someone who is a narrow minded and obviously  little vulgar person - since i am very close to my master degree in law i think that i know what i talk about and your childisch and unreasonable angry emotions are completely a waste of time - if you feel sick because you lack of knowledge - than i feel sorry for you - but certainly i wont accept you posting such a diffamatory garbage - what do you know about "how i feel about sonar" and about anything else i do ? - you bring in the term "thievery"... are you on dope  - (should i send you a picture of my original software boxes???) you are just one of those "soldier mentality -guys" or one of those "simon says jump" and your only concern is "how high" ... if you just lack any notion that would entitle you to discuss about the rights of contracts and you also lack the capability of abstraction - please just stop making a fool of yourself - go just on and be a "musician" if thats what your good at ... btw: since you seem to be one of those "neighbourhood watchmen" why dont you just report my heresy to cakewalk - so that they can sue me for my twisted thoughts??? - you just make me laugh... probably its folks like you who "feel the moral need" to stick to disadvantaging sideagreements because you have no clue about what a legal system is there for but on the other hand you would probably sue mac donalds after you got fat from eating a million of burgers - intelligence bigtime i guess - congratulation !

so go justify your theivery somewhere else

 
No. I am just a guy who has read some of your previous posts - nuff said there. I am a guy who gets very emothional about people trying to defend something that is wrong-using analogy like a car? Spare me. Yes, I got a little carried away. I will apoligize for that. but your logic is flawed-your dialog is old and you keep reminding everyone about your prowess with "the law and legal issues"
Moron is not a really strong word-You felt compelled to jump on the bandwagon - Why? Sure reads like you are OK with selling old versions. If your not-what the heck was your point? Please don't answer. I am tired of this-Bye

Greysound, you forget that it's not the copies of discs this is about. It's the license you pay for, and the license is not transferrable. Copying your drivers' license doesn't make it usable for some other person.

Also, one might interpret that there are copies: The sold old version includes a copy of about 90 % of the new version.

Your example of CD's  and DVD's doesn't work either. It's not at all the same thing.
 
And ohnoyes...Why did I participate in this again...

Your line of thinking is exactly what makes this world what it is, and that is not a compliment.

so...because you CAN get away with it that means it's OK to do it?  REALLY????

wow.  why didn't I think of that? 

OH, WAIT!  Maybe it's because I have a conscience and I will keep the promises that I make!