Midi Hiccup/Skip on Playback - The Definitive Thread!

Tell us what your midi record buffers are set to.
Tell us what your midi playback buffers are set to.
Tell us what your letency settings and driver mode are for the 1394.
Tell us how you are quantizing the midi data.
Tell us how you are monitoring your setup.
Tell us if you have any other usb devices connected besides the Midisport 2X2.

Bill

Here's a reply to my discussion of this elsewhere:

"Rick,

That's not an uncommon problem (even in major studios that use SMPTE timecode and top of the line wordclock devices)...The "hiccup" you refer to is the amount of time it takes for your system to "chase-lock" to the MTC controlled MIDI transmit/receive tracks...Inserting a couple of "dead air" measures at the beginning of your songs will take care of the "Intro" section...For overdubbing to MIDI tracks, use a "pre-roll" (i.e., start playback of your track a few bars before the punch-in point begins)..."

This is from member papa2004.

Thanks for the response bbarnes. Will have to get back to you on those settings. Dave - I'll also try the video acceleration.

Wow, all of this just for one little glitch. MPC/MV8000 looking better and better.

hi rick,
I posted a somewhat general reply in the other thread... have you opened up the recorded tracks and looked to see if there is aftertouch info being sent? You're right that that would bog things down... the fact that your system hiccups while looping suggests something other than the "getting ready" that the computer needs to do before playback...it's playing already. You tried just soloing the drums- try each track that way. Cerainly with the few tracks you have at this point this behavior shouldn't be expected. Let me think about it some more! - best, jg

Dave's right in that SHS 4 must be the master midi device all other midi hardware must slave from SHS 4. This might be the problem right there.

Bill

Rick,
I've been having the same problem. Sputtering before the MIDI actually starts anywhere in the song, but especially at the begining. I added a full measure to the begining of my song thinking that was the only way to deal with it.

I think I've solved my problem now, however, and don't need to do that any more.

Here's what I did:
OPTIONS>PROJECT>CLOCK> AUDIO Note: As boten said, you can probably use MIDI instead, but the point is to take it off of the default which is INTERNAL.

OPTIONS>PROJECT>MIDI OUT> UNCHECK: Patch/Controller Searchback before play starts
OPTIONS>PROJECT>SYNC> UNCHECK Transmit MIDI Start/Continue/Stop/Clock

If you are using the external MIDI clock as boten says you are able to do, you might need that one checked and if so, your problem might not go away.

This has made me a happy camper with this set up, tho, because it has stopped my MIDI "scratch and sputter"!



Hope it helps you!

Beagle,

I agree with your post in that when I changed from Options/Project/Clock/MIDI to AUDIO. the slight slowdown of the first MIDI beats was gone. It' certainly not very intuitive (at least for me) since I first noticed this problem in a piece with only MIDI tracks.
I think this single change may be the answer to evryone with this problem.

thanks for that clarification, boten.

Woohoo! (Swore I'd never use that term). Beagle solves the problem. In the Options-Project dialog box, on the MIDI tab, the options are:

1) Zero Controllers When Play Stops, and
2) Patch/Controller Searchback before Play Starts

IT IS THE LATTER, Patch/Controller Searchback before Play Starts which is causing the problem. And now that I know this, I seem to remember one of my hardware sequencers which had this feature, and when turned on, caused a delay or glitch at playback. Obviously the computer/sequencer must search through the track and update controllers one by one, so that makes sense. Also the looping is now much smoother.

The other option on this dialog seems to have no effect, (Zero Controllers When Play Stops) and without it checked, controllers like sustain appear to just hang, assuming there is a sustain down and no corresponding up when playback is stopped. So I'm keeping that option ticked.

Regarding the Clock tab on the dialog, with my Presonus 1394 it seems to force itself to audio, which is fine. I tried Internal and no difference. MIDI obviously requires an external MIDI device to send clock, which I'm not using.

I also made some changes on the Sync tab of the same dialog box.

1) Unticked Transmit MIDI Start/Continue/Stop/Clock (since I'm not syncing any external devices), and

2) Switched the MIDI Sync Output Ports option to Out-B USB MidiSport 2X2, since I have the luxury of 2 MIDI outputs, no need to risk gumming up the works of output 1 with this data, should any of it be sent.

Bottom line: The glitch/hiccup/lurch is still there, but MUCH less pronounced. Looping now seems relatively smooth. A HUGE improvement over what I had which was almost unusable.

This encourages and at the same time scares me. The encouraging part is that now I have a piece of software I can use and learn. Even more encouraging is the community that is so knowledgable, quick, and willing to help new users solve their problems. What's scary is how many tiny little details buried in tabbed dialog boxes somewhere can cause major problems in usability.

Anyway, I will keep any further discoveries related to this problem posted on this thread. In the meantime, maybe we've created another FAQ for the Dave's Cakewalk FAQs.

Thanks again everyone!

Glad you got it sorted Rick. Way to go Beagle. Kinda makes realize what a great resource this forum can be.

Bill

Could possibly surgically insert markers a few clock ticks before the beginning of any section I want to go to, but a) That's a pain in the ass,

Why is inserting a marker a pain? More often than not that's using a valuable tool...

and b) There could be other data previous to the downbeat which would distract me while recording.

I don't understand the "distraction"...Every studio musician I know prefers to hear at least 2 or 3 bars of the song before the punch-in point...

I'm not trying to be negative, Rick, but I don't comprehend the reasoning behind either of those objections on your part...

Okay, I thought you were having problems trying to overdub...(which is why I was obviously confused)... Also, I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to when you mention MPC's...Can you enlighten me about that?

Take the Tutorial on Editing Audio and your questions will get answered.

Once you slip edit a groove clip (midi or audio) use the Bounce to Clips command. This removes any data that has been hidden by slip editing.
It's also handy for combining several clips to make a groove of several bars. After you bounce to clips you have to make the new clip a groove clip again. Then just drag it out as long as needed.

Bill

"Glory, glory hallelujah. His truth is marching on."

UPDATE.....Problem appears to be solved.....

Ran a new test today. Recorded 4 MIDI tracks, but this time in the Options>Global>MIDI, I disabled ALL input except notes. Further, on each newly created track, I specified the input (M-Audio USB Midisport 2X2, Channel 1), and the Output (M-Audio USB Midisport 2X2, Out A), as well as the Channel (xxMotifRackESALL, where xx is the specific Midi Channel). I DID NOT specify Bank or Patch, as I suspect doing this may cause Sonar to send Bank/Patch messages, which might be or contribute to the source of the hiccup/lurch.

Result: Completely smooth playback when starting from any location. Completely smooth playback when looping.

Next experiment: Start adding things back one at a time to see when the lurch re-appears, starting with Bank and Patch settings per track.

I now have a completely new perspective on Sonar. I'm liking it alot.

BTW papa, MPCs have been incredibly popular over the years. Less so as DAWs have come to prominence. But still in the rap and hip-hop community, where owning one is almost a requisite. There is a guy who posts alot, maybe over on Sonar, and his avatar is an MPC3000.