Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
Please enlighten me as I'm probably missing the point here ...
Why I should have VST Scan Options set to "Automatic Background Scan" at all? I decide when I update plugins. I follow each update by a scan. Afterwards I don't want to have any changes to the system, especially not in the background while I'm working with the DAW ... is that just me being paranoid, but I don't see why I should have someting scanning/adjusting the system in the background?
"Scan on Startup" would save me one keypress and 2 mouse clicks after each update, but considering that I update plugs at max. 5 times a year vs. the number of project starts (which already take long enough to load) ... I don't seem to gain here either ...
"Manual scan" is it for me ...
All day long I think of things
But nothing seems to satisfy
Think I'll lose my mind
If I don't find something to pacify
Can you help me occupy my brain?
Oh yeah
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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Billy Buck
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 11:12:41
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I like the auto scan on startup, as I never have to think about doing a manual scan when I add new or update existing plug-ins to one of my associated VST folders. They just appear and are all ready to use when I first open SONAR. I only see it scan for a few seconds (at the lower right of the screen) and then it disappears until the next time I re-start SONAR. I am always updating existing plug-ins or adding a new plug-in, so the auto scan works for me. It seems on a weekly basis I am installing an update to an existing plug-in (UAD, Slate, IKM, Native Instruments, etc). It is just a quick convenient option for those that don't want to fuss or think about ever doing a manual scan. Fortunately, for those that don't like it you can simply disable it and do the old manual way.
Cheers,
Billy Buck
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 11:21:22
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Set it to manual. For newbies it's a good feature and I suspect it reduces support calls for Cakewalk.
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bitflipper
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 11:54:34
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I've never understood the need for automatic scans of any kind, except on first run after a DAW's initial install. I suppose it does reduce support calls, as the Doktor suggests.
In the past, scans used to take a long time. I dreaded having to do it, as even on my most-recently-retired machine it was a 10-minute process. A long time to wait when you're anxious to try out your latest plugin! Running the scan in the background lets you get going right away without first having to wait on the scan.
On newer machines waiting for the scan is no big deal - on my current DAW, which is by no means a top-spec box, scans take 10 seconds. A background scan, I think, would be a nice convenience (it's not actually an option for me, as I'm on 8.5) because new plugins would just show up without need of further action on my part.
The downside to background scans is that if something goes wrong with a plugin's initialization the scanner can get hung and might even run continuously without your knowledge.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Kylotan
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 17:50:09
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FreeFlyBertl
Why I should have VST Scan Options set to "Automatic Background Scan" at all? I decide when I update plugins. I follow each update by a scan. Afterwards I don't want to have any changes to the system, especially not in the background while I'm working with the DAW ... is that just me being paranoid, but I don't see why I should have someting scanning/adjusting the system in the background?
"Scan on Startup" would save me one keypress and 2 mouse clicks after each update, but considering that I update plugs at max. 5 times a year vs. the number of project starts (which already take long enough to load) ... I don't seem to gain here either ...
For me, the question is "why wouldn't you have automatic plugin scanning"? It doesn't have to consume any system resources, because Windows offers a way to monitor a directory for changes without needing to continually check it. The way I see it, a manual rescan should only really exist for troubleshooting - the rest of the time, Sonar should just spot the plugins and work. The automatic scan goes a long way towards this. I probably update or install plugins 20 or 30 times a year, often while Sonar is open if I discover a need for an update or a new plugin while working on a project, so the auto scan has a tiny but positive effect on my workflow.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 18:19:53
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If it is the one Noel was talking about it has some advantages. First and foremost, it wont rescan already scanned plugins. Second, you wont have to wait while the scanning is done for any new additions. You can work in a project while its busy scanning in the background. Third, if a new plugin is found it will be scanned and available for use quickly. Forth, because it uses toast to display information it wont interfere with working with your project. Fifth, it lets Sonar start quickly and at the same time scan for new plugins.
I have it on and it is a great leap forward from having to wait for a scan each and and every time one starts a DAW.
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jbow
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 18:26:32
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John
If it is the one Noel was talking about it has some advantages. First and foremost, it wont rescan already scanned plugins. Second, you wont have to wait while the scanning is done for any new additions. You can work in a project while its busy scanning in the background. Third, if a new plugin is found it will be scanned and available for use quickly. Forth, because it uses toast to display information it wont interfere with working with your project. Fifth, it lets Sonar start quickly and at the same time scan for new plugins.
I have it on and it is a great leap forward from having to wait for a scan each and and every time one starts a DAW.
Yes, it is super fast. Almost immediate. I like Auto Background Scan.
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jih64
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 18:28:46
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FreeFlyBertl
All day long I think of things
But nothing seems to satisfy
Think I'll lose my mind
If I don't find something to pacify
Can you help me occupy my brain?
Oh yeah
Cool . . . , You need no enlightenment :)
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 19:28:54
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☼ Best Answerby FreeFlyBertl 2015/03/29 04:32:10
There are several advantages and reasons why you should leave auto rescanning on: - You install a new SONAR update that includes new PC modules. (New Prochannel modules or region fx won't be seen unless scanned)
- An update made a change to a plugin that changes its behavior (e.g. it could add sidechaining)
- You have VST3 plugin sets/shells like waves where multiple plugins are bundled into one dll. If you authorize a new bundle, on next run SONAR will automatically activate the plugins you bought.
- You can install plugins while SONAR is running and it will pick up the new plugins automatically
- If you change your VST scan path to add a new path, it will automatically add any new plugins dynamically
- the process is *very* lightweight and doesn't slow down the start of SONAR. Rescanning is done on a separate process and the checking for updates is also very efficient.
- It only scans plugins that have changed since the last check so its very fast
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2015/03/28 19:39:15
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John T
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 19:32:29
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
- You can install plugins while SONAR is running and it will pick up the new plugins automatically
Now that I did not know. Cool.
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 19:48:34
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
There are several advantages and reasons why you should leave auto rescanning on:
- You install a new SONAR update that includes new PC modules. (New Prochannel modules or region fx won't be seen unless scanned)
- An update made a change to a plugin that changes its behavior (e.g. it could add sidechaining)
- You have VST3 plugin sets/shells like waves where multiple plugins are bundled into one dll. If you authorize a new bundle, on next run SONAR will automatically activate the plugins you bought.
- You can install plugins while SONAR is running and it will pick up the new plugins automatically
- If you change your VST scan path to add a new path, it will automatically add any new plugins dynamically
- the process is *very* lightweight and doesn't slow down the start of SONAR. Rescanning is done on a separate process and the checking for updates is also very efficient.
- It only scans plugins that have changed since the last check so its very fast
I only had 5 items as reason to use it.
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mudgel
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/28 22:40:57
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Iv'e had it set to scan in background ever since we've had this option. With a raft of plugins there always seems to be an update of something connected to Sonar and now there's a monthly update to Sonar as well a new plugin each time.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 04:31:31
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Thanks for all the information. It's definitely clearer now ... and I'm less paranoid ;-)
GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER +++ Visit the Rehab +++ DAW: Platinum/X3e, win10 64 bit, i7-3930K (6x3.2GHz), Asus Sabertooth X79, 32 GB DDR3 1600MHz, ATI HD 5450, 120 GB SSD OCZ Agility3, 2x 1TB WD HDD SATA 600 Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture) Control-Surface: VS-700C VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really)
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DonM
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 08:43:53
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Clearly from the responses, ABS is a feature that illustrates how differently we all use a product. My tendency is to be linear, conservative, and slightly paranoid about any process running while a client project is on the clock. In other words if I added plug ins, I'd be doing that off my production time, and would not have Sonar open at the time. Since I use multiple DAW's I also like to test the plugins in other hosts before considering them 'in - production'.
Yesterday, after the I did the current updates Sonar hung at startup (during the plug in scan) .... oh well, there's just another log on my paranoid fire. :)
BTW loaded perfectly after I restarted Sonar ..... of course!
-D
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 09:30:41
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The VST scanner should not hang SONAR itself. Even if a plugin hangs it will hang the scanner which is a separate process but not SONAR. What did you see in SONAR while it was hung? Was there a scanning toast notification being displayed?
Also make sure that you have the latest VST scanner in the shared utilities folder under Program Files\Cakewalk. The version number should be 5.0.7.1 and date should be 3/23.
Its perfectly ok to not install plugins during a session of course but there should really be no reason to disable the auto scan since it will be idle in that case. Scanning never runs until something updates a file in the vstscan path. Overall by disabling it you are just making more things for you to remember to do on each update :)
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robert_e_bone
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 18:45:05
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I always leave it to auto-scan, and as Noel says, it doesn't do anything unless there is a change, and even there it only scans the plugins that have changed. That takes almost no time at all, and seems to happen separately from Sonar becoming available to use while that is happening.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 19:27:43
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Surely just detecting a change takes CPU cycles which means it is doing something?
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 19:53:04
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Doktor Avalanche
Surely just detecting a change takes CPU cycles which means it is doing something?
Yes it is doing something. However, if you have ever sat and waited for a VST scan to complete before you are able to do anything with a program you will see how useful and slick CW's approach is. At present I don't worry about the VST scan at all in Sonar. I dread having to start programs that have a non configurable scan. Vegas Pro has a simple scan that can not be turned off.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 20:24:10
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Right so CPU cycles vs convenience then? For me it's not hard to trigger a scan off after a software install.
You don't have to wait for a manual scan to complete BTW, it too will run in the background.
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 20:54:08
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Doktor Avalanche
Right so CPU cycles vs convenience then? For me it's not hard to trigger a scan off after a software install.
You don't have to wait for a manual scan to complete BTW, it too will run in the background.
Not with other software. And the amount and time the CPU is used for the scan is trivial in Sonar. In other programs one can't do anything until the scan is complete. There is simply no reason to argue about this its a proven improvement that will save time.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 21:18:55
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I'm just talking about Sonar and I don't see any arguement. It's CPU cycles vs convenience when it comes to manual vs auto, that's all. Pick your poison. Until I know exactly what it is that triggers a scan (is Sonar continiously scanning vst directories?) in auto mode I'll stick with manual. I'm not saying that the auto feature is a bad thing either it's up to you what you want.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/03/29 21:41:50
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 21:54:04
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No scanning is done after the fact. When I say its quick normally its done before I have chosen a project to open. You can check if scanning is continuous by adding a VST after Sonar is loaded and scanning is complete. It will not show up in the VST menu.
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mudgel
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 21:57:35
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Doktor Avalanche
I'm just talking about Sonar and I don't see any arguement.
It's CPU cycles vs convenience when it comes to manual vs auto, that's all. Pick your poison.
Until I know exactly what it is that triggers a scan (is Sonar continiously scanning vst directories?) in auto mode I'll stick with manual. I'm not saying that the auto feature is a bad thing either it's up to you what you want.
If the guy that writes the code says its best to leave it on auto that's good enough for me. I don't need to be able to build a car to drive one nor do I need to be a programmer to be able to use Sonar.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 22:18:06
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If cakewalk has the time I'd be interested to learn what triggers an auto scan and when it occurs. Whether there is any polling going on etc. Is the separate process running all the time etc. @Mike the guy who wrote the code still offers a manual scan for some reason. However everybody seems to be implying that auto is a direct replacement for manual scan, and if that is the case then it should be removed.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/03/29 22:25:05
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/29 23:59:31
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Doktor Avalanche
If cakewalk has the time I'd be interested to learn what triggers an auto scan and when it occurs. Whether there is any polling going on etc. Is the separate process running all the time etc.
@Mike the guy who wrote the code still offers a manual scan for some reason. However everybody seems to be implying that auto is a direct replacement for manual scan, and if that is the case then it should be removed.
Wow! I thought I did answer that. I know I'm not CW but sometimes we users actually know what we are talking about. Most of us wont give bogus information and if we do someone will come along and correct it. I try very hard to be as correct as I am able. Often times I will look something up because I want to confirm it and be sure of what I post. This is an area I know a little about. I have read everything Noel has written about it and remember most of what he wrote. You came on here 3 days ago and I have been here from day one. It seems to me you may want to listen to a user that has been here answering questions for many years. Ever since this forum has been around. I can say I have been here longer then some CW staff. I don't want to sound angry but it is rather insulting.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/30 00:43:13
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John you are implying that auto scan happens only on startup. If that's the case why isn't it called 'scan on startup'? Auto implies it's being continuously monitored. I have no reason to question you, but you are not the developer and I don't see answers to my questions in the documentation and your answers aren't very specific. Note these questions have nothing to do with how long you or I have been posting in this forum, the actual scan itself or indeed Sony Vegas. 'Something is happening' isn't quite the details I need. Let's split it up shall we. And REMEMBER I'm talking about the file detection process NOT the actual scan itself or any other scanning software OR what goes on when a scan gets triggered (which is exactly the same as manual), these are really yes or no answers: a) Does auto scan only happen JUST on startup as others appear to be saying (if so please rename it!) b) OR Is the file detection process running all the time with auto scan ? (Before you say NO rememember cakewalk says it runs as a separate process). If YES how does a scan get triggered (registry or file monitoring or something else?) c) With manual scan is the detection process running all the time? (the answer is clearly no but here for purposes of completion). Again very specific questions requiring very specific answers. I hope this is clearer now. No need to feel insulted for any reason. I'm sorry you regard all new posters as newbies, please note I don't claim to know it all but I do have some knowledge. It might be better to let somebody else answer if it makes you feel emotional it's not my intention to poke you in any way I'd prefer to stick to topic rather than let personalities get in the way.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/03/30 01:11:20
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/30 01:06:56
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It works as I have described it. I also gave you a test to check it out.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/30 01:16:35
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Of course I've tried it. I'm also not arguing with you about whether you are right or wrong. I just don't think you're really answering my questions accurately or maybe I'm asking for more detail then you can provide. . I bullet pointed the questions above and you glossed over it.
Leave it to Cakewalk I suggest unless somebody can point me to better documentation.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/30 01:52:06
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BTW John
No scanning is done after the fact. When I say its quick normally its done before I have chosen a project to open. You can check if scanning is continuous by adding a VST after Sonar is loaded and scanning is complete. It will not show up in the VST menu.
And yet... Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
- You can install plugins while SONAR is running and it will pick up the new plugins automatically
So you see my questions in #26 might clear up some confusion it looks like all of us are having. Cakewalk gave some good answers I'm just asking for a little more detail.
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John
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Re: VST Scan Options: Why Use Automatic Background Scan?
2015/03/30 02:05:40
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I will not contradict Noel. If he says it will then it will.
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