Anyone received Notion3 yet?

ducatibruce:
Thanks for your efforts in keeping us up to date on this. I have to wonder though why this thread got moved to here?

Jack N2MPU
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I have to wonder though why this thread got moved to here?

jackn2mpu




a coverup....perhaps?

Hi Bruce-

ducatibruce2


Hi Susan,
 
Notion's Rewire seems to support transport control & audio out of Notion & into Sonar but not midi in or out. I have posted a question at Notion's forum & am waiting clarification.
 
Using Notion to replace Sonar's Staff View involves - save as midi in Sonar, import midi file in Notion (which opens in "Sequencer View" (very similar to to PRV) then convert to notation in Notion.
 
The midi import in Notion introduces some timing discrepancies (apparently, from their forums, Notion is working on this) and the convert to Notation (which seems to apply quantising and imposes a "granularity" as the "as played" midi is converted resulting in further timing discrepancies. Getting it back into Sonar is a save as midi in Notion & import midi in Sonar excercise (though I haven't got this far yet).
 
Using Rewire in Sonar to control play of the original track & the same Notion track simultaneously (using the same soft synth & patch) at various points in the conversion process reveals timing wandering around to varying degrees.
 
Because Notion doesn't (seem to) support midi in or out via Rewire you have to insert VSTs or external synths (max 4 ports) inside Notion, doing this changes the Staff name (& the track name when midi is imported back to Sonar) automatically to the synths name (eg Dimension Pro) rather than the probably meaningful name it had when it left Sonar (eg Piano). You can manually change the names in Notion but the default auto change is a pain & extra work.
 
There's some Notion tutorial vids here http://www.notionmusic.com/support/tutorials.html (mainly Rewire setup) & a copy of Notion's help file/manual pdf here http://www.notionmusic.com/support/pdfs/Help.pdf
 
HTH
 
edit for typos

Ouch! Export/Import .mid files? I can do that with Finale already. That's no kind of integration! I'll be interested to hear what you get back from the forum on your Rewire MIDI question.

Thanks, and I'll check out those videos.

-Susan

I just downloaded the Notion 3 demo yesterday. I am presently using Overture, which is likely a dead product at this point and looking to move on. Though Overture is a little bit clunky to set up, the workflow was very easy and intuitive for me and when I bought it provided the VST integration that I was looking for.

Perhaps, it's the Notion 3 demo that's a problem, but I've had lots of problems with the program just in the 12 hours I've been trying it. Perhaps it is also my system, but I run Sonar 8.5, FL Studio 9, over ture and a whole host of new VST's without major problems.

First, a big one. When I shut the program off it doesn't turn off the ASIO driver to my M audio sound card. The driver is locked up for any program looking to use the driver and requires a reboot to free it. The notion3.exe program always stays functioning in the background and will not shut. Anybody has an easy fix?

Secondly, it sets up staffs very quickly with my Garritan Aria, however, if you want to directly choose the samples you wish to use, it is just as much, if not more, of a pain in the butt than overture to do. If you want to access the vst menu directly, again, not as easy as you'd like.

Thirdly, I've had lots of problems with the feature I'd been looking most forward to trying and that's the undocked entry palette. I find I lost access to the undocked palate with the typical right click, particularly at the top end of the score, requiring me to dock it through the view menu to gain access and then to undock. This occurred when trying to edit and add markings at the top of the score, as well. This seems to be a trouble area.. I also had problems when locking the palette, again towards the upper end of the score page, where it completely locked and I could no longer get rid of it. Then I thought if I docked it, it would disappear and i ended up with two entry palettes on the page and one stuck in position.

There have been several other minor irritations, but only in the few hours that I'd used it.

If I am doing something wrong, quite possible, I'd love for somebody to let me know so that I can continue to evaluate this program for purchase.

Dave

 @dave4761- I haven't seen the issue with Notion refusing to die. About the onl;y suggestion I can make is to try power cycling the interface & see if Notion dies.
 
@everyone else - we're now up to Notion 3.03. On the copy protection front Notion staff are reluctant to discuss the copy protection scheme & refer most enquiries about how it works to the scheme's authors Nalpeiron. There was a Notion staff post on their forum that said that the copy protection will not prevent a disk clone copy being written but that reloading that clone may require a reauthorisation. I can't find the post now - but don't read too much into it the search function is about as reliable as here.
 
Here's a response I rec'd from Notion's tech support after asking various questions.

1.  As far as things go with Kontact, we have tested on version 4 since it is the latest.   We have not had the opportunity to test on older versions of Kontact.
 
2.  I am not aware of a limit to the amount of VST's that NOTION can display.
 
3.  Right now it is not possible for customer's to modify or develop additional presets
 
4.  Right now it is not possible to route MIDI date to another program via ReWire, only audio data.
 
5.  It is not possible to modify the default templates in NOTION 3
 
6.  You can create your own templates by setting up a blank score exactly how you want it and saving it.
 
7.  MIDI import as well as MIDI entry are currently being worked on and should be implemented in an update very soon.
 
8.  Since Nalpeiron is a security company, their secrets are very well kept.  We can't even be 100 percent sure that they do anything to the MBR.  I have spoken to people who have worked for other security companies and almost all of them alter the MBR in some way.  Here is a scenario:  You put NOTION 3 on your computer and the 14 day demo expires.  You uninstall NOTION 3 as well as any Nalpeiron components and reinstall the software.  The demo is still expired.  I have seen some companies have their security set to where you reformat a machine and you still cannot get back into demo mode. 
 
9.  The astsrv.exe service is part of the Nalpeiron security.  It is set to "automatic" so it does run at logon.  You are welcome to start and stop the service manually if you would like.  The only problem is that if you install another program that has an older version of the Nalpeiron security on it and the service is not running, the older version will over-right the newer and you will not be able to open NOTION 3  unless you remove the service and run an update.  If the service is running, nothing can over-right the file and you should not run into any problems. 

 
Let me know if the questions I was asking arent clear ;)

S8.5.1PE, Q6600 @3Ghz, 4GB DDR2, XP SP3
With Knobs: 2 x Yamaha i88x mlan (ASIO), RS7000, Motif ESR, Roland SI24, VSynth XT, Varios, Fantom XR, JunoD, HPD10, Korg PadKontrol
No knobs: P5, DimPro, Rapture, Z3ta+, IK stuff, ReCycle

Well, I've installed Notion 3 and I am having some problems. When Notion is run in standalone, the Notion outputs don't match the outputs on the V700R. Notion outputs 5-6 output to V700R outputs 1-2, Notion outputs 7-8 output to V700R 3-4 and so on to the Notion 11-12 to V700R 7-8.
When trying to play back a demo score with the Notion Instrument installed in Sonar 8.5, I get a red lined Meter in Notion upon opening Notion as the slave and bursts of sound when play is pressed in Notion. I can get rid of the red lined meter in Notion 3 by muting certain tracks in the arrangement and double clicking the meter for that specific track-send or the main. As a Rewire plugin, Notion doesn't seem to send Midi to the Notion Instrument in Sonar when playing a demo score.
Any thoughts or solutions to this problem?
I started a Notion thread in the Software category if anyone would like to post there.

Craig DuBuc

From Cakewalk's promo email "Elite Packs for Composers" rec'd today

Notion 3 integrates seamlessly with SONAR via ReWire so you will not have to feel that you are having to maintain two separate projects in order to have both your sequence and your printed notation. 

(my emphasis added)
 
Given the hoops that you have to jump through to get a Sonar project into Notion and that you have to, in fact, maintain two distinct projects it is certainly not "seamless" and you would have to be delusional to feel you weren't maintaining two separate projects - I feel the promo is very misleading - I have emailed Cake about it - but do really feel disappointed that they dont even seem to have tried the product(or asked the developers any questions) before writting such misleading copy and taking people's money.
 
I know that there's at least one disgruntled Sonar user who has asked Cake for their money back & been refused (http://forum.notionmusic.com/viewtopic.php?p=1436#p1436)
 
Me, I've given up on Notion for now & will wait to see what future updates bring (& reaffirm the "don't commit to buy as yet unreleased software" no matter how trustworthy you think the seller may be" mantra)

S8.5.1PE, Q6600 @3Ghz, 4GB DDR2, XP SP3
With Knobs: 2 x Yamaha i88x mlan (ASIO), RS7000, Motif ESR, Roland SI24, VSynth XT, Varios, Fantom XR, JunoD, HPD10, Korg PadKontrol
No knobs: P5, DimPro, Rapture, Z3ta+, IK stuff, ReCycle

Hi Bruce-

Me, I've given up on Notion for now & will wait to see what future updates bring

Thanks for that report. I'll say again, "Ouch!". It's hard to imagine CW didn't try it before offering a Notion3 bundle, but then again it wasn't released at that point and maybe they jumped the gun based on a beta. Who knows, but that's disappointing.

OTOH, if N3 doesn't fill the gap adequately, maybe that'll encourage CW to step up development on their native notation? Wishful thinking? Yes!

Thanks again-

-Susan

Susan G


Hi Bruce-

Me, I've given up on Notion for now & will wait to see what future updates bring

Thanks for that report. I'll say again, "Ouch!". It's hard to imagine CW didn't try it before offering a Notion3 bundle, but then again it wasn't released at that point and maybe they jumped the gun based on a beta. Who knows, but that's disappointing.

OTOH, if N3 doesn't fill the gap adequately, maybe that'll encourage CW to step up development on their native notation? Wishful thinking? Yes!

Thanks again-

-Susan

I haven't contacted Cakewalk yet but from Bruces post it doesn't sound like they have any answers either. Notion support didn't have a clue as to what interface I was using, the V700R, and didn't seem to have a clue about whether the ASIO drivers for Sonar worked with Notion 3. Nor did they answer me when I asked them if their Demo scores output Midi to the Notion instrument installed in Sonar. While I'm just getting started with Notion 3 and haven't had time lately to try entering my own Midi and recording using the instrument , and actually using the editing features in Notion 3,  these are simple questions I have asked Notion 3 related to the functionality of the product in use with Sonar. I bought it in the hopes it would rewire to Sonar in both directions. Maybe it's my computer and OS, but the ball ain't bouncing here. Who dropped the ball? 

Craig DuBuc

ducatibruce2


From Cakewalk's promo email "Elite Packs for Composers" rec'd today

Notion 3 integrates seamlessly with SONAR via ReWire so you will not have to feel that you are having to maintain two separate projects in order to have both your sequence and your printed notation. 

(my emphasis added)
 
Given the hoops that you have to jump through to get a Sonar project into Notion and that you have to, in fact, maintain two distinct projects it is certainly not "seamless" and you would have to be delusional to feel you weren't maintaining two separate projects - I feel the promo is very misleading - I have emailed Cake about it - but do really feel disappointed that they dont even seem to have tried the product(or asked the developers any questions) before writting such misleading copy and taking people's money.
 
I know that there's at least one disgruntled Sonar user who has asked Cake for their money back & been refused (http://forum.notionmusic.com/viewtopic.php?p=1436#p1436)
 
Me, I've given up on Notion for now & will wait to see what future updates bring (& reaffirm the "don't commit to buy as yet unreleased software" no matter how trustworthy you think the seller may be" mantra)

You got a Sonar project into Notion 3? What hoops did you have to jump through? Did you record with the Notion 3 instrument installed in Sonar? Give us the skinny Bruce.

Craig DuBuc

You got a Sonar project into Notion 3? What hoops did you have to jump through?

 
In Sonar save as  midi file,
In Notion import midi file, convert from sequencer format to notation format, insert all VSTs used in Sonar into Notion tracks/staffs, rename Notion tracks/staffs back to what they were when in Sonar , re edit all midi note data to correct timing errors during conversion, reinsert all midi CCs lost during import.
Return to Sonar, mute all tracks copied to Notion (to avoid duplication and annoying timing error induced stutters) hit play in transport & wonder why it sounds so totally different to before it left Sonar.
 
Seamless integration indeed.
 
AFAIK you can't use the Notion instruments in Sonar as they're not VSTs but inbuilt to Notion & Notion doesnt support midi over ReWire.

S8.5.1PE, Q6600 @3Ghz, 4GB DDR2, XP SP3
With Knobs: 2 x Yamaha i88x mlan (ASIO), RS7000, Motif ESR, Roland SI24, VSynth XT, Varios, Fantom XR, JunoD, HPD10, Korg PadKontrol
No knobs: P5, DimPro, Rapture, Z3ta+, IK stuff, ReCycle