Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ?

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Zo
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2012/09/20 22:25:58 (permalink)

Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ?

Still that lagging introduced by X1D or not ?

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 14:06:58 (permalink)
    Bumpinsky  !!!

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    Norrie
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 14:27:44 (permalink)
    Yes still lag :(

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    ProMusic27
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 14:30:02 (permalink)
    Yep.

    Mauricio Monteiro - Brazil
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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 15:15:00 (permalink)
    Yep it's still doing ?

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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 15:22:19 (permalink)
    Yes it is still lagging :(

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 15:24:14 (permalink)
    holy crap .....!!

    Why can't we have a single infos on eta about this thing !!! X1 C working X1D = desastser ..is that bad to alow us to rool back to X1C driver and apps setting (vs 700 c)

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    Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 15:34:10 (permalink)

    Hi Folks,

    Can you all give us some context of how much "lag" you're referring to. I have to be personally honest, the very short delay has never been an issue for me in use. I don't physically move faster then my VS-700 responds... but you guys are using it every day and perhaps could give us some better context to put things in.

    I'd like to paraphrase a little bit of a conversation I had individually with Norrie several months ago. As below:


    When switching between Buses and Tracks, the LCD refresh isn't instant for me either. The faders switch instantly, but there is a small delay before the LCD refreshes to show the correct parameters. When I bank, however, I don't seem to have this happen. It's still slightly delayed, but not as much as switching between Tracks and Buses.

    I'd like to say what you're experiencing is "normal" but I should probably ask for some context to put it in. Could you create a quick video so I could compare it with what I see?

    The reason I say "normal" is for a few different changes that recently took place in SONAR X1d.

    1) ProChannel modularity:

    My understanding is that there were a number of bugs with how ProChannel modules reported their parameters to the VS-700C's LCD. You could get stuck into very weird states where you were viewing ProChannel parameters for different tracks and accidentally modifying incorrect parameters. It was very unpredictable and we had a number of bugs to address in regards to that. As a resolution to a lot of these fixes, the LCD refreshes itself when performing certain actions so that the proper parameters are displayed. A brief example:

    You might notice that when switching you'll see the CHANNEL STRIP CONTROL section display "Track Compressor" or "Bus Compressor" or whatever module is focused. The parameters mapped can be modified however, so it needs to check with the host to see what parameters to display. For you the first row might be "Input, Attack, Release, Output", but I could very easily modify these parameters and put them in a different arrangement if I desired.

    In any case, the reason for the slight delay with checking this particular section I believe is intentional. You are given the name of the module, then you are given the names of the parameters in the row you are viewing. When you adjust a parameter, you are given the values of that parameter... but if you adjust a parameter in a DIFFERENT row, it shows that parameter for a moment, and then after a moment of inactivity it returns back to the name of the parameter in the row being viewed. It has a lot of unique behavior that requires refreshing itself or it won't display the proper parameter (which would bring us back to some of those aforementioned bugs).

    2) Bus selection:

    This used to be impossible as we never had a concept of bus selection with the mouse. In the latest updates you can indeed select buses by clicking and you can also group them. With this change, we also had to implement this on the VS-700C. Basically you can click a bus in SONAR and see the selection on the VS-700C, which you couldn't do before. I believe the slight delay you're experiencing when switching between Tracks and Buses is a result of this new implementation.

    Ideally, I think it would be nice if there wasn't any delay at all, but I don't know the technical limitations of how this is all implemented in the code and what the hardware is capable of doing. All of these messages require time to send/receive, so there might be some inherent latency simply in how long it takes to send messages back and forth and how complicated the controls and different scenarios get. I'm sure there is an explanation behind the scenes for it. In any case, I think what you're experiencing sounds similar to what I see on my end as well.

    I hope that at least clears things up. If you'd like to send over a video definitely do! It would be good to know if what you're seeing is way more delayed than what I'm seeing and even if not, it would be a good benchmark for if any performance optimizations were to be looked at in the future.


    With all of that being said, would you folks be willing to do the same? Norrie had sent me a video as well but his behavior didn't seem any out of sorts than with what I am seeing on my end. Sure, I noticed a slight delay in his videos, but by no means was this a "disaster" or unusable.

    I can say that we're aware of some laggy behavior with the screen refresh, but there were no specific enhancements to the VS-700 Control Surface Plug-in for SONAR X2. The vibe I'm getting almost sounds as if the VS-700 is unusable with SONAR X1d/X2... but this is not the impression I got last time I sat down with the system myself.

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    Norrie
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 16:35:27 (permalink)
    Hi Ryan.

    I used X2 most of today with the VS and have not found anything that is a show stopper just the lag that is being talked about again not a show stopper :)

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    ProMusic27
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 16:58:44 (permalink)
    OTOH, I fell that my faders went up faster (on open a file) than it used to be in X1... You noticed that too Norrie?

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 17:18:50 (permalink)
    Ryann , it has been constated by a lot of dude , i created a coupon and this was the first thing i noticed after X1D !!

    Called my friend Cedric Verchere from Roland Central Eruope that gave you the info :

    1) lagg

    2) Act data weirdness ..

    I use it everyday and i have one not upadted at the SAE witch is far faster ...

    We're talking here names and alabel refershing , faders are instantanous but label are way to slow  ...i switch to busses and i have kick 1 displayed !! so i reclick on the button and go back to gusess what kick 1 until i remeber o  yess i have to wait 2 seconds ...reclik on buises ...kick 1 , kick 1 , bingo master now !

    I mean common guyz !! 

    I just ask you guyz , let work like it used to be , not even better !!


    losing randomnly my act data , old vst act data not reconise gotta remap , and mapping not constant !! gotta remap again and again ...

    Report Details CWBRN-8622





    Hello Zo, The status of your report has been updated to "Under Investigation" with the following notes: Thank you for your report. This is confirmation that we have received your report and are investigating it further. Depending on the nature of your issue and the order it was received, it may take some time for us to investigate and update it's status. We thank you for your patience and understanding while we continue to research. PLEASE NOTE: this form is largely automated and does not put you in contact with our Technical Support staff. It's primary use is for reporting issues to our development team. If your problem is system specific and of an urgent nature, please contact Technical Support. You can review our full support policies and contact information at http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/contact/default.aspx This is an automated response, so no reply is necessary at this time. Should we require additional information, we will notify you at that time.


    MAY 9th ...

    Nothing since !



    EDIT : just put one guy , one day on it jsut to allow us to bring back to old VS 700 intagration !!

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    Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 17:58:03 (permalink)

    I don't know how anyone could address lag without any context to put it in. I live in the city, so I walk at approximately 17 mph backwards while paying my bills and talking to customers on my way between jobs while eating a cake. We might not even see the same color spectrum of light depending on how fast I move on average in comparison to everyone else

    I'm just asking you to put it into context.  Not trying to be difficult. It's just a request for clarification so that we can be more helpful. I'd just like to know how bad it is for you and the best way I can think is a short video.

    Without anything to compare to, I'd have to make some pretty big assumptions based of what I am seeing... which is an extremely small amount of delay that doesn't interrupt my personal workflow. But that's what I'm personally seeing... it might not be what you see. I don't know how else to be helpful other than asking for clarification.

    If you didn't get a chance, please read my explanation above in regards to the changes in X1d. There is a very specific reason the labels respond they way they do with the current implementation. I don't consider the changes a disaster, but than again I'm not sure what your experience is versus my own.

    In regards to the bug report, I personally updated that problem report. The status isn't going to change unless an update becomes available for the VS-700 system. The system is intentionally set up that way. Once a report gets pushed to "Under Investigation" it is largely automated. It doesn't ever get closed as "Fixed" unless we know, for sure, that there is a fix and it is currently available to customers in one form or another.



    Ryan Munnis
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    Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:00:10 (permalink)
    Do you have a CWBRN number for the ACT stuff? Cedric doesn't work at Cakewalk so if you sent it him I wouldn't assume we know about it "officially".

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:13:22 (permalink)
    Cedric was reached to confirm the issue first (as he own a vs700) and then as second way to be sure that you guyz get it !! witch he confirmed ....and also your email ...

    The act stuff was mentionned on the same mail if i remeber well ...

    i'm not the only guyz mentionning that ....1 min after the update , i faced those and it was obvious ...firt thing i tried is tio check the next day at the SAE and the diffrence is obvious ...

    do you guyz need a video on it or some ? just take a VS 700 with X1C and aonther with X1D and it will jump on your guyz ...


    Thks Ryann  for kimming in ..but not want to be rude , but it's not on how you're feeling the work of the  new implementation but how WE feel it ;)

    we just want to be sure that you guyz have a look at it ....X2 is out now take care of us VS 700 users !!

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    Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:25:42 (permalink)
    I understand you're just trying to share everyone's experience. I think this is a good thing!!

    The reason for my request for context to put it in is because (sorry Norrie)... but his video and my own experience didn't exactly show a major problem with the system. In fact, they really didn't show anything wrong at all. I don't continually switch between tracks and buses at a rapid pace, so waiting 250 msecs for a screen refresh never was a problem for me personally.

    I think what we should do, is 

    1) See what your experience is like. If you have a quick video to show something we're completely unaware of, what an eye opener that would be for us. If that's the case, I'll gladly be the one to jump up and say, "wow I didn't realize it was this bad for you Zo".

    2) Clarify what aspect of the "lag" is intentional versus what is not. Some of the behavior is meant to pause as the LCD screen refreshes to go back to the row of selected parameters versus if you adjusted a parameter in a different row. I briefly touched upon this in my quoted post.

    Thanks guys. I know you all love your VS-700s and want it to integrate as best as possible with SONAR. I'm jealous, if anything, that I don't have one at home to use as much as you guys get to. Sharing your experience is definitely of value to us.

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    Norrie
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:31:16 (permalink)
    @ProMusic I can confirm that the faders shot up like a rocket a lot faster than they did in the past ( on loading a new session ) I thought I was imagining it at first.

    @Zoe if you read Ryan's post above it explains very well why we have the couple of seconds of lag I would much rather have this than the bugs that were mentioned.

    I am going to be honest with you Zo at first I thought the Lag was a total pain in the A** when trying to swap between tracks and bus levels very quickly but now that I am use to it its not a big deal.

    I would urge you and others to send a video across to Ryan in case you are seeing more lag than I am.

    Yes it would be nice to see the display instantly again but not if it is going to cause bugs. I am happy with my VS and X2 integration :D

    Now where did they put the talent button

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:44:50 (permalink)
    250 ms ..well nope !!

    i will have to do a vid so but i needt to put a versus VS 700 X1C with it ....not before one week ...(waiting my next day at the SAE)

    video done ....uploading now ..


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    Norrie
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:51:11 (permalink)
    @ Zoe How long would you say it takes for the display to refresh ?

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:54:13 (permalink)
    Also having issues with selection of tracks with mouse versus on the console ....it doesn't upadte always .....

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:56:33 (permalink)
    you will see it i'm uplodaing on photobuket it take some times .....will make videos on all the bugs , i fwe have to do that for them to put one guy on the VS 700 "flag ship" !

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 18:59:31 (permalink)
    Here we go :

    Video 1 :

    label refersh delay / lagg 

    http://s638.photobucket.c...42-421_zps0d6d288c.mp4

    post will be edited with videos of all issues ...


    Video 2 :

    track selection synchronisation issue (maybe it's supposed to be like that ?!):

    http://s638.photobucket.c...19-491_zpsfd32cdb2.mp4
    post edited by Zo - 2012/09/22 19:42:18

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    Norrie
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 19:05:05 (permalink)
    I cant say that is any slower than what I am experiencing here

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    Zo
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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 19:10:27 (permalink)
    And so  ? do you remeber how it was ?

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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 19:18:27 (permalink)
    Yeah it was the same speed as when you were banking up and down the 8 faders in your video.

    Ryan did explain the reason behind it in his messages above though :)

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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 19:30:00 (permalink)
    lol my next videos show that selecting a track on soanr X1 doesn't sho the selection in the console alwayz ...so the whole argument is trying to implement some that deosn't work ( not really sure if it's the same )  

    i don't even want a fix , i just want that old implementation  aka the old X1C protocol to be sinstalled , is it that crazy to have ?


    Anyway for cakewalk , it is set as "normal" ....it's like super we have a new features , but your user expereience ginna change , beacuse of this feature , your vs 700 gonna be slower refreshing .....now if we say : we want it like it used to be  !!  have you heard someone requested the feature ? but i heard complains on the refresh stuff .....so if on my ferrari a guy want to add a bling bling gagdget that make me lose 100 horses , i will say keep your thing and bring back my horses ! evident ....
    post edited by Zo - 2012/09/22 19:38:16

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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 19:34:55 (permalink)
    "" i don't eeven want a fix , i just want that old implementation aka the old X1C protocol to be sinstalled , is it that crazy to have ? ""



    Did you not read the post from Ryan saying that the reason it is now the way it is is to stop specific bugs that were happening ?


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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/22 19:41:22 (permalink)

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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/24 08:47:45 (permalink)
    Anybody else can confirm this ? on his system ?

    Feelings ?

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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/24 08:55:10 (permalink)
    Zo are you running latest Driver / Firmware ?

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    Re:Any VS 700 C experience here with X2 ? 2012/09/24 09:35:53 (permalink)
    yep 

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