Creating Drum Track.

I want to create simple drum track for my song. It's all in Sonar 5 Producer. But I have some problems with it. I would like to ask how to do this in the 'best way' ( to make it sound natural).
So i guess it has to be done in midi track. Then create smth in Drum Map? And then assing a synth for Output. Is that right? Which Synth Would be the best? I have lm-9, Roland GrooveSynth and some other (you gotta know them).

Matt. sorry for my english.

Thanks.

thank you so much Juan Sanchez..

:)

I beg to differ. If we start using programs like EZ Drummer, and using the installed midi loops. Its not really our track then is it.. Its like putting a bunch of loops together in Ejay or Acid, and calling yourself a producer.. I say get a program like DFH, and learn to write the drum tracks yourself.. I just draw my drum tracks in or tap away at the keyboard, or if your lucky enough, one with pads, and randomly change the velocity of some of the notes, and the grab some other random notses, and put them out of time a few ticks, to give it more feel...

Thankyou... I was going to say that.. hehe
Very well worded. And so true.

Start a click track to the tempo of your choice.
Lay down a guide track using instrument of choice (guitar for me)
Play the drums (vPros for me) to the click track record the midi track (or audio if desired)
Edit the midi track if needed,
resample with software of choice (gigastudio and Larry Seyer for me).

This is my work flow for all original "normal" music. If I'm doing electronica or whatever I'll use acid loops or loops from the Larry Seyer for percussion beds.

yorolpal,

I did not mean to disrespect drums or drummers. What I meant is that, by deconstructing the drum set into seperate instruments, basic and even quite good drum tracks can be produced by playing them individually, like stacking lines of other pecussion instruments (clave, congas, etc). I cannot play kick, snare, and hat all at one time, but I can play kick and snare (unless ghost notes or complicated snare lines are needed - in that case, I play the snare seperately). In this respect, drumming is like tapping the dinner table with your hands. If you can tap a kick/snare rythm that fits your song, then you can put those instruments in yourself. I know of few musicians who can't tap out a useable kick/snare sequence. Then I put in the hi hat, using two hands. Again reduction makes it possible. Then toms, then cymbals. This does not mean that I am the best drummer in town, only that I can lay down acceptable pop/rock drum tracks myself. What I like about this method, is that the performance is mine. I do not quantize, and I tweak individual notes little if at all. It is more work, but each time I do it, I become a better player of drum sounds (not drumset, mind you). When I need drums of high repute, or exacting character, I hire a drummer.

If you want some real hardcore feedback concerning MIDI drums, loops etc, I'll hook you up with with a top notch jazz drummer in my area (Virginia Beach, Va.) and he'll will give you an earfull on what a "real" drummer/drums/music is :)

BTW, drums are not the only instrument I lay down in layers. I do the same with guitar, even though I am a relatively qualified player.

Best,

Poco

ORIGINAL: plainfaced

Look I think its very easy to make music nowadays with the tools that we have avaiable to us... Its just now we use a hell of a lot of software synthesizers, drum samplers, romplers etc. This is just like having an old DX7 and trying to recreate a violin sound, or like an old mellotron trying to sample a real instrument...

The fact is, if I havent played every single chord, tapped away at every single, drawn in every single drum hit on ALL of my tracks, i have not written them..If i start using someone elses midi groove and changing it just a bit to "make it mine", or if i use a sampled synth loop as my lead, I may as well go back to becoming a DJ...

I dont understand why these people are calling themselves musicians and producers when using these such tools... Learn to use a keyboard. I did.
If you have a good ear for pitch, a feel for rhythm, a general love of music, you shouldnt need to use these tools.. I you dont have a good ear etc, you shouldnt be making music.. Sorry.

Have a listen to my tracks on Myspace.. They may not be any good to your ears. But at least I can sit back and say "I wrote that track"

All due respect (and I mean that), I don't think you've worked through the logical ramifications of this line of thinking.

By your logic, anyone who's ever been in a band or used a studio musician can't take credit for their compositions and isn't really a musician because they didn't write or play every single note on every single instrument.

I'm not a big fan of loops either, simply because I "usually" have a pretty good idea of what I want and it would be unproductive to waste a lot of time searching for a loop that matches what I hear in my head.

However, I do use studio musicians because, quite frankly, I'm not a member of that extremely small minority that can play multiple insruments at a professional level. Please don't take this the wrong way. I listened to your tracks on myspace and neither are you (I did dig your stuff though, especially "Ones Company").

Think of all the incredible music that has been created using studio musicians. Take Steely Dan for instance. Do you really think that Donald Fagen and Walter Becker played every note of every song? Does the fact that they didn't, make them any less than the musical geniuses that they are?

Well, using a loop is no different than hiring a studio musician, except you don't have to pay to fly him to your hometown and then pay him double scale to perform your song. Of course, you sacrifice the ability to give him feedback while he's performing your song but you still have the ability to manipulate those loops - in radical ways if need be - to get the type of performance you're looking for.

In the end, using a drum loop (or EZ Drummer) requires just as much creativity as writing a drum part if you're really serious about producing a professional song. There are many musical geniuses who use loops in amazingly creative ways.

IMO, the goal isn't to be able to say that I played/wrote every single note on every single instrument. The goal is to make my songs as good as they can be. I often fail at this but I'm not about to limit myself by refusing to utilize the musical genius of others to breathe life into my compositions. If that makes me a poser; so be it.

ORIGINAL: Poco

yorolpal,

I did not mean to disrespect drums or drummers. What I meant is that, by deconstructing the drum set into seperate instruments, basic and even quite good drum tracks can be produced by playing them individually, like stacking lines of other pecussion instruments (clave, congas, etc). I cannot play kick, snare, and hat all at one time, but I can play kick and snare (unless ghost notes or complicated snare lines are needed - in that case, I play the snare seperately). In this respect, drumming is like tapping the dinner table with your hands. If you can tap a kick/snare rythm that fits your song, then you can put those instruments in yourself. I know of few musicians who can't tap out a useable kick/snare sequence. Then I put in the hi hat, using two hands. Again reduction makes it possible. Then toms, then cymbals. This does not mean that I am the best drummer in town, only that I can lay down acceptable pop/rock drum tracks myself. What I like about this method, is that the performance is mine. I do not quantize, and I tweak individual notes little if at all. It is more work, but each time I do it, I become a better player of drum sounds (not drumset, mind you). When I need drums of high repute, or exacting character, I hire a drummer.

If you want some real hardcore feedback concerning MIDI drums, loops etc, I'll hook you up with with a top notch jazz drummer in my area (Virginia Beach, Va.) and he'll will give you an earfull on what a "real" drummer/drums/music is :)

BTW, drums are not the only instrument I lay down in layers. I do the same with guitar, even though I am a relatively qualified player.

Best,

Poco

Yea that's generally the way I lay my drums in also. And I'm a multi-instrumentalist with over 30 years of experience in playing, arranging and producing. And while I can create drum tracks that can and do fool folks into thinking it's a "real" drummer on the track, if I did have a real drummer come in and play the track as I scored it YOU WOULD HEAR QUITE A DIFFERENCE. This would be mostly to a slightly better "feel" and rolls, ghost notes, and better, more interesting fills. That's because even tho I've had to learn as best I can how to think like a drummer...I'm not a drummer. I"ve got a bass player friend who is one monster bassist...but his keyboard skills are just adequate. He can go in and create very nice tracks with good keyboard parts because he knows his theory and he knows how to use Sonar to edit his performances. But he'll bring me in to replace the piano parts because even tho I'm playing essentially the same thing he scored it sounds way better. That's what using the loops in EZDrummer (or any other comparable program) does for most folks...gives them access to a better performance. Now, as to whether folks should learn how to be better players on their given instrument...of course they should. Not only will it make you a better arranger and performer...it will teach you how to better utilize such tools as EZdrummer or any other sampler/soft synth. Just my two cents.

I would love to hear some GREAT music that uses canned loops.

Isn't using canned loops like working with a musician that just doesn't mesh with your style? In this case, great chops don't mean crap.

Likewise, using your own programmed patterns can be like working with a musician that sucks...keeping your music from being as good as can be.

Either way, there's a catch.