Helpful ReplySonar X1 Audio dropouts !!!

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Starise
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2011/04/07 10:22:35 (permalink)

Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!!


 I posted here a few weeks back in regards to problems I was having with the audio engine in X1. At the time it seemed the problem was with the firewire card I used because it had a via chipset. I ordered a new Lacie card with the TI chipset and unfortunately the problem(s) still exist.

 I just built this computer and as you can see by the specs below it should be more than capable of running 16 tracks of audio with plugs. The Cpu and memory indicators never break a sweat but there is still a problem . I use both a MOTU traveler Mk2 and  Presonus  Firestudio tube interfaces. There is no communication at all with the MOTU and  the Presonus  only sees 4 of its inputs instead of the 10 present in WDM mode. When I  switch to ASIO mode the inputs are all there but the ASIO latency bar is frozen and will not let me change any of those settings which are in to 20ms range. To top all of this off the audio out to monitors on the presonus is now at a very low volume. Not sure if my monitors are blown or why that would be. I get a good indication on the graphic visuals of the meters like sound SHOULD be there.

  This whole thing is starting to wear me down..... Its enough work to record a project without all of this!! The most frustrating thing for me is the audio dropouts or more accurately audio stopping and needing restarted. I somehow managed to get 10 or so tracks recorded. each track and the master has at least one plug so thats 10 tracks and 11 plugs including all pro channels engaged.

  I have the most recent quickfix update after loading 1a and 1b. A lot of time and money invested and not much of a return. I have performed most of the computer tweaks recommended by CW and others to enhance audio performance....HELP!!!!

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#1
brundlefly
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/07 13:10:14 (permalink)

When I  switch to ASIO mode the inputs are all there but the ASIO latency bar is frozen and will not let me change any of those settings which are in to 20ms range. To top all of this off the audio out to monitors on the presonus is now at a very low volume. Not sure if my monitors are blown or why that would be. I get a good indication on the graphic visuals of the meters like sound SHOULD be there.



When in ASIO mode, there should be an "ASIO Panel" button by which you access the latency setting for the interface rather than dragging the slider as you do in WDM mode.


If track and bus levels look normal, go to the Console View, drag the righthand pane divider if necessary to reveal the strip for the physical Main Out ports, and make sure the fader and levels are normal there. If that checks out, move on to whatever mixer software is loaded for the Presonus, and make sure its I/O controls are at 0dB as well.
post edited by brundlefly - 2011/04/07 13:11:59
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Starise
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/07 13:49:26 (permalink)
 Thanks Brundlefly I appreciate your help. The ASIO panel button you mention is the one that seems to be locked. I can't control any of the ASIO settings.

When I first noticed this I  thought that maybe the presonus had some kind of  default setting that could not be changed.....its almost as if I am locked out of it.

   Thanks for the input on the audio outs as well......I will double check this and see what I have there.


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#3
brundlefly
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/07 14:11:36 (permalink)
I know the ASIO Panel button does not work with some interfaces. I'm not sure if Presonus is among those, but you should be able to open a control panel for the interface settings independently of SONAR to change it. SONAR will probably have to be restarted to see and work with the new value.

Also, make sure the Presonus is set as the Timing Master for both Playback and Recording, as that might have something to do with the ASIO Panel not working from within SONAR.


#4
Starise
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/07 14:20:31 (permalink)
 I'm also wondering if since I don't usually record more than a few tracks simultaneous,that maybe if I unchecked a handful of the drivers in the driver display window some load would go off the cpu......although this is a workaround that should not be.

  In any case I won't be at a place to check this until later today and I'm itching to do it now....

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#5
brundlefly
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/07 14:56:13 (permalink)
My understanding is that having more drivers enabled does not increase load except in the specific case of having Allow Arm Changes During Playback/Record enabled in conjunction with using WDM driver mode. See page 260 of the X1 Reference Guide. It should not be a problem to leave all inputs enabled in ASIO driver mode.

#6
agundrum
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/08 09:22:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
In regards to you low monitor volume.  I had a similar issue with my E-Mu 1820m and what I found is there is consumer (-10) and pro audio (+4) modes.  Once I changed the audio I/F to pro audio mode everything was sounding right.  Check your PreSonus for a I/O setting like this.

I would recommend installing DPC Latency Checker to monitor for latency spikes.  Your CPU and everything might be fine but it's the talking to the audio I/F(s?) where there might be an issue plus other "crap" services and other things running that are absolutely not needed on a DAW system.

When I first built my Win7 64-bit system for X1 I had similar problems.  The DPC checker really helped out.  No so much in the way of it telling me what to do but it told me I still had to do something.  The time was initially peaking just below 8000us and the recommended "us" is suppose to be below 500.  So mine were off the charts.  I implemented a lot of tweaks and when finished the system is running very smoothly.  You can find the list of tweaks I applied to my system here.

One last question:  Is the PC your using ONLY used a DAW?  Meaning you use another computer to surf, check email and everything else?

John

John
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#7
Freddie H
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/08 09:25:35 (permalink)
Sinceer Question for the bakers...: Is it hard to make a glitch free audio engine?
post edited by Freddie H - 2011/04/08 09:26:41


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#8
Starise
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/08 10:51:48 (permalink)
  Thanks agundrum, I will check this out tonight when I get to my music computer. I may have missed an important tweak so I will go over everything again. I am using the same computer temporarily to check email. I disable all virus protection though whenever I record anything.

  I have a second computer all ready to build,when its completed then I will seldom ever use the music computer for anything else.

  Its really weird,last evening when I started my session again the output problem went away and never returned although I do notice a difference on output level compared to my MOTU interface. The only thing I seem to have in regards to any kind of control outside of Sonar X1 is my presonus software mixer and it offers no bitrate control or anything else other than just being a decent software mixer.

   I have taken notice to something that might be part of the problem and I hope the cakewalk people read this.......whenever I initially launch X1 before I even select a project I get an error pop up screen that states something similar to this," No MOTU devices detected,please check your audio device"......after I acknowledge this  window  X1 starts up. The strange thing about this is that in the last session  X1 recognized the Presonus Firestudio Tube I am now using and X1 seen all of the ASIO drivers for it. Stranger still , when I arm and record a track, I  get tons of audio dropouts both in playback and in record and a popup screen that says my audio device is incompatible(something to that effect)................this would lead me to believe that  the program would no longer function right? Not at all....after I acknowledge that window I might be able to record for 10 minutes before the next dropout occurs. No rhyme or reason to when a dropout might occur but more frequently than not the dropouts are every few seconds until something "catches" for lack of a better term. Every time I get an audio engine failure  the box pops up telling me about some kind of audio incompatability...................geese I wish I were at that computer now so I could get you a screen shot of it!!! So its not a good way to work. I play with it until it works and then I hope to get a track down before it drops again.

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#9
Starise
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/10 23:56:46 (permalink)
 Update- I applied most of the tweaks Agundrum posted about and I am happy to say that the problem seems to have completely disappeared.
When I built my computer using a builder version of Win 7 x64 I falsely assumed that there would be nothing else to do because of the lack of "garnish" software or bloatware as some call it.......needless to say I was wrong on that and I'm guessing that there are probably many others who come here that might want to look this info up and apply it.
  Thanks agundrum!!

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#10
agundrum
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/16 15:10:46 (permalink)
Tim:  Your welcome!  I really do have to figure out how to subscribe to a post automatically when I reply (if that's possible?)

I basically had the same thought as you with the builder Win 7 x64 I installed.  I knew it was a pipedream but I wanted to make sure.  There are so many services and tweaks that can be done to improve OS speed and many users don't know to do.  The industry's answer is to tell you to buy a new system that is faster and has more memory.  Its a bandaid and works to their benefit - obviously.

John
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subtlearts
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/16 15:16:34 (permalink)
I was going to suggest the DPC latency checker but it looks like someone else already did. It also looks like you've sorted the problem out - generally good practice is to mark the thread topic 'Fixed' or 'Solved' by editing the title of the first post... just a suggestion of course!

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#12
chuckebaby
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2011/04/16 15:26:14 (permalink)
i noticed something really strange last night.i re-record a project and instead of using guitar rig.i used amplitude.and instead of using the track view where i do all my work i decided to start a differernt way of doing things..i use screen set 4(small console view prochannel docked at right and only one track showing in the bottom.)i saw it on a cake vid w/brandon.
this has reduced my processing dramaticallly..normaly my performance module is up around 38 by the projects end..this time the same re-recorded song the module read 28..and comfirmed by task manager

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#13
rcassent
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2012/02/04 17:36:21 (permalink)
personally , i do not think Sonar X1 64bit for win7 is ready for prime time. this is what i have been thru this week  with Sonar tech support, Motu, and NI
 
what i use for hardware and it does not help Dell t1600persion workstation - windows 7 64bit OS 16 gig of ram quad core Xeon processor 3.4 ghz
you could not ask for more!!
 
Wedensday
Audio drops out issue in Sonar X1 . these same files  work fine in Sonar 7
 
Wednesday - Talk to Motu and get drivers for MKS828mk3 - sampling rate 4800 bit depth 128 and switch up to 256 and 512 - buffer 256
Tracks  - have a test bed of 3 audio/midi tracks with big audio files and 2 sonar demo files for testing X1
install sonar - not working, audio drop outs ON A QUAD CORE 16 GIG MACHINE win7 64bit.  no problem on my XP 4 gig dual core 32 bit OS
install guitar rig - not working but need to gigure out how it works
work thru prefrence s and all sonar setting directed at audio
Midi is working fine with Maudio win7 64 bit drivers for midi sport 8x8
 
thursday
2pm - talk to native instruments and get guitAR RIG - NOT THE BEST SUPPORT BUT BETTTER THAN NOTHING
3pm - sonar drops out continue after some minor adjustments - talk with 2 diffrent sonar techs from 3pm unitl 6pm
5pm - after running sonar service packs, drop out become more frequent
7pm  - Run sweetwater optimzation - did not stop audio drop outs biut cut down process
8pm  - start the long process of diable hardware devices in device manager - this does not help
diable on-board audio and USB 3.0 PCI card.
 
All test track failing, all tracks drop out, soem last longer than other biut all fail in the end.
None of the track fail in sonar 7 windows xp 32bit 
 
Friday
10 am - Call sonar support for X1 - talk about plan to stop Audio drop outs with tech -
Problem/Questions: Dropouts (continued)
5pm . 1. Delete AUD file in sonar to get fresh start
         2. Disable Dell audio drivers in Device manager
         3. try running WDM Drivers - make things musch worse, revert back to ASIO
         4. Run Tascm USB interface instead of Motu to see if works any better. still get drop outs
 When running Tascam interface, it take longer to have drop out but i still have them
617.423.9021 - they tried but they point to Motu as the problem
For more support topics visit http://www.cakewalk.com/support -= noithin there!

Saturday - no tech support - me and google today
I scrap the motu mks 828mk3 audio card and use my portable tascam audio/midi card to see if it makes a diffrence
 
install latest tascam us-122mk11 drivers- use same seqences as last two days
 
with 50 plus track song, 28 track sonar X1 demo and midi track with 10 tracks audio, use the 3 for testing with secondary audio card
audio and loop for one hour - still crash with Tascam interface - 20 minutes
 
use same audio demo from cakewalk , still crash but takes longer before crash - 30 minutes
use these same sequence in sonar 7 and loop them - runs for over an hour and never crashes
 
Unistall guitar Rig and sonar, unistall motu drivers on Win7 64 bit machine
 
after reinstall of sonar and guitar rig with the  Tascam, us122 now my prime audio /midi adapter , audio drop contiued.
1st file play files taht are was 41.16 /24 cakewalk demo file - it did not crash after one play thur
2nd file was 50 track audio file 48/24 and crashed right away
 
disable AMD HD audio device aong and real teck adui drivers real tech
no sonar service packs installed at this point - still audio drops out s on 48/24 tracks
LPC latency checker shows no evidence of spikes and say hardware is perfect even when audipo drops out, really great toolthat does nothing
 
Could not find audio in Bios of Dell PC so i can not shut that off. only from device manager
Audio drop out continue and with tascam card and audio actually slow down on a track ????? very strange
 
after shutiing down the sonar the DPC latenacy checker ****d off and went all read and said to check device in device manager and start disabling things
 
Disabled many device but no change, still audio drop outs
 
Disable list - one set of video cards, !ee1394 usb 3.0 any aduio not realted to the sound card - nothing helped
 
Patch sonar - still have audio drop outs. remove midisport drivers - still have audio drop outs
 
reove and reinstall tascam drivers - still drop outs
 
3 days, no music. only issues wirh sonar X1
 
after audio drops out the 1st time, sonar x1 can canel the audio drop out but it continues as the tracks paly and it happens more frequently until i reboot the machine
 
My sonar 7 machine is still my production machien so i am going back to work on music. i am really considering leaving sonar after be a Cakewalk user for 23 years. Starting using Cakewlak 2.0 for DOS in 1989
 
post edited by rcassent - 2012/02/04 17:42:59

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#14
stonehedge
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Re:Sonar X1 Audio dropouts !!! 2012/02/05 10:59:41 (permalink)
Forgive me if I missed something or this is off base. Are you trying to hook up both the motu and presonus to the same firewire card? IIRC you can't do that. If you have 2 different types of firewire sound cards, they must be on seperate firewire cards.

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