Cakewalk by BandLab
Prev Thread
Next Thread

Setting Pitch Bend Range?

Author
Post
Essentials Only Full Version
mlehruk
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2
  • Joined: 9/15/2008
  • Status: offline
September 15, 08 8:22 AM (permalink)

Setting Pitch Bend Range?

Whilst I've had Sonar 5 Home Studio for a while, I'm still most comfortable with Pro Audio 9, and I've recently encountered an unexpected problem.

I do all my writing from the computer, so have always inserted pitch wheel events for guitar and the like manually in the piano roll view, and never seemed to have any problems.

However, in the last week I've been examining someone else's MIDI files and noticed that there were different ranges of events for the same amount of bend.

More to the point, I now find that my own files play with a ludicrouslyy exaggerated bend, which suggests that some parameter has been altered to a new default.

I've tried to work this out myself, through the help file and googling, but without success.

Can anyone please point me in the right direction? It has to be something simple.

I'd be more than grateful!!

MikeL
#1

5 Replies Related Threads
    larrymcg
    Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1310
    • Joined: 11/5/2003
    • Location: Redding (Northern California)
    • Status: offline
    RE: Setting Pitch Bend Range? September 18, 08 2:56 PM (permalink)
    I'm guessing..... but those midi files that were not yours likely had midi commands in them to change the pitch bend range in your synth. Setting the range back to what it was, or the default, can be done via the synth's user interface but it's highly dependent on the synth you are using. For my Roland JV-30, midi commands called RPNs (Registered Parameter Numbers) are used to set the pitch bend range (or sensitivity) to be from 0 to 24 semitones. The JV-30 synth on power ON resets the sensitivity to the default of 2 semitones. ProAudio itself does not know or care about the pitch range sensitivity. It just sends the pitch bend data values (which run from -8192 to +8191) which are then mapped over the pitch range in the synth.
    --Larry

    Intel Core i7-4790 @3.6GHz; 8GB; Win10 Pro 64bit; 1TB disk + 3TB ext disk; Midiman Fineline mixer; MidiSport 4x4 midi I/F; Roland JV-30 kbd/synth; Yamaha TG55 synth; Rx with 3 piece Home audio speakers; Sonar X3e Studio
    #2
    mlehruk
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2
    • Joined: 9/15/2008
    • Status: offline
    RE: Setting Pitch Bend Range? September 19, 08 9:06 AM (permalink)
    Many thanks Larry - I think you're getting me on the right track.

    I should perhaps say that I only ever use a MIDI keyboard for input into Pro Audio (mainly vocal lines to achieve some realism). The rest is all done on the computer, as is all my listening. Directly listening from my computer will go through my Yamaha SW1000XG soundcard, but on the internet it will be through an add-on (for most people generally Quicktime or the like, which maybe use a soft synth - I don't know).

    Since the problem only arises when I listen to my MIDIs directly from my computer, I guess what you're saying is that somehow the pitch wheel sensitivity on my soundcard must have been changed (similar to what you say about keyboards). I guess I'll have to search my copious manual to try and find out how to reset it.

    I was basically aware of the use of RPNs and that they can be inserted into a MIDI file in Pro Audio. However, I can't find any guidance as to what parameters to use to ensure that all listeners (or at least the majority) will hear the same pitch bend. The same will presumably apply to other MIDI controller ranges?

    Basically, I only manually input a limited number of pitch wheel events in Pro Audio - a gutar bend of two semitones and bass guitar swoops up and down of a fourth, fifth or octave. On my original default I had quite a range to play with in the wheel pane of the piano roll view, but now two semitones is just a value of 640.

    Presumably if I insert the right NRP values in the MIDI itself, that will ensure that it plays as required whatever the setting of the output destination?

    Sorry if I sound dumb, but amazingly I can't find the guidance anywhere! Maybe it's me, but I hope that makes some sense :(

    MikeL


    ORIGINAL: larrymcg

    I'm guessing..... but those midi files that were not yours likely had midi commands in them to change the pitch bend range in your synth. Setting the range back to what it was, or the default, can be done via the synth's user interface but it's highly dependent on the synth you are using. For my Roland JV-30, midi commands called RPNs (Registered Parameter Numbers) are used to set the pitch bend range (or sensitivity) to be from 0 to 24 semitones. The JV-30 synth on power ON resets the sensitivity to the default of 2 semitones. ProAudio itself does not know or care about the pitch range sensitivity. It just sends the pitch bend data values (which run from -8192 to +8191) which are then mapped over the pitch range in the synth.
    --Larry

    #3
    larrymcg
    Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1310
    • Joined: 11/5/2003
    • Location: Redding (Northern California)
    • Status: offline
    RE: Setting Pitch Bend Range? September 23, 08 4:38 PM (permalink)
    I've done some experimenting with PA9 and Pitch Wheel Sensitivity and my JV-30 synth.
    The JV-30 does not reset the sensitivity on a power ON. I was wrong about that. However, the JV-30 has a bunch of Performances, which are pre-defined setups of intruments and other parameters for all 16 channels. Switching to a Performance sets all the params, including the sensitivity, to the values specified for that Performance. So I can get back to square one by switching to some other performance and then back again.
    PA9 has an option to zero all controllers when playing stops. PA9 does not zero out the wheel sensitivity though. A value of zero wouldn't likely be desired anyway.
    PA9 has the facility to insert wheel sensitive RPNs into a midi track without having to do it the hard way. With a midi file open, select a track and then open the piano roll view. There should be an upper pane (with piano notes, etc.) and a lower pane showing various things. What is shown is selected by the three drop down lists near the top left of the piano roll view. Often it shows velocity. Anyway, use the first drop down to select RPN, then the second one to select Pitch Bend Sensitivity, and the third one to select a channel. Then you can draw in whatever sensitivity you want.

    If you can't see the lower pane, hover the cursor at the bottom edge of the upper pane and the cursor will change so that you can click and drag the divider bar up to reveal the lower pane.

    To set the sensitivity to what you want (likely 2 semitones) you need to put in at least one event with an appropriate value. For my synth a value of 127 results in a sensitivity of +1 and a value of 255 gets a sensitivity of +2. When drawing in the lower pane, the value to be entered shows up near the upper left corner of the piano roll window.

    Another way to do this is to open the event list and add the event there. After entering an event, double-click the event KIND and select RPN. Then double click DATA and enter 0. If Pitch Bend Sensitivity doesn't show up then click and hold and scroll (down or up) until you see it. Then double click the value to the right of Pitch Bend Sensitivity and enter 127 or 255 or whatever you like.

    I can't say I understand the mapping of the event value to the synth's sensitivity but experimentation might tell you something.

    After all that, play the midi file and see what you get.

    --Larry

    Intel Core i7-4790 @3.6GHz; 8GB; Win10 Pro 64bit; 1TB disk + 3TB ext disk; Midiman Fineline mixer; MidiSport 4x4 midi I/F; Roland JV-30 kbd/synth; Yamaha TG55 synth; Rx with 3 piece Home audio speakers; Sonar X3e Studio
    #4
    SysExJohn
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 86
    • Joined: 2/19/2008
    • Location: Wellingborough, UK.
    • Status: offline
    RE: Setting Pitch Bend Range? October 21, 08 11:47 AM (permalink)
    Hi,

    Sorry it's taken me a while to respond to this but the answer is that some people set the pitch bend range to one or even two octaves in their files. A very simple way around this is to make sure that there's a GM reset at the very beginning of every file you play. There should be a GM reset syx file to include in your CWPA9 directory. This sets the controller back to 2 semitones (MIDI default) for every single track or channel if you prefer (and all other controllers too). N.B. Reset all controllers (CC#121) does NOT reset ALL controllers.

    The other way is to hunt out the pitch bend change RPN in each channel of each SMF, by looking at the "event list" and reset the range (back to 2) at the end of each altered track of each offending file (wearisome!).

    Hope that helps?
    SysExJohn.
    #5
    tommyguitar5000
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5
    • Joined: 10/28/2008
    • Status: offline
    RE: Setting Pitch Bend Range? October 28, 08 3:24 PM (permalink)
    I had the same problem for a long time until I found this.
    It has worked for me, I hope it helps you, too.

    there is a way to change the amount of pitchbend so you can
    bend the pitch more (or less) to suit your needs. Here's how:

    In measure 1 insert CC100 with value 0, then CC101 value 0, then CC6
    value x, where x = number of semitones you want the maximum bend to
    be. 12 would be an octave, 7 would be a perfect 5th. What you’re
    doing is using two special controllers (100 and 101) to activate
    a "category" (in this case pitchbend) and using a data value (CC6) to
    set the range in semi-tones. Now it's not easy to bend a note one
    step when the maximum range is set to 12. So, wherever you want to
    just bend a little bit, insert a CC6 value 2 (2 semi-tones) and the
    maximum bend range updates to that value. You can insert a CC6
    anywhere in the track. From that point forward the maximum bend range
    is the current value. It's a good idea to always return the value to
    2 at the end of the track since that’s the standard and the next song
    might bend improperly. A General MIDI On message at the start of the
    next song will prevent that from happening. See the previous e-LINE
    (if you still have it) for more about that.

    Using pitchbend control in this way makes it far easier to get
    realistic bends because you always know where the wheel
    "bottoms out." A perfect example of this is in bass parts. If a bass
    note bends in a subtle way from below the intended pitch up to the
    real pitch you cannot easily do this unless the maximum bend range is
    low (2 semi-tones). But if it is low, there is no way to do a "fall-
    off" bend that may bend as much as an entire octave. The solution is
    to lower the range wherever more precise control is needed and
    increase the range where larger bends are needed.

    Another helpful device is inserting single pitchbend events to
    suddenly change a note's pitch, kind of like the pitch-correction
    effect in that Cher song. A good approach is to set the range to 12.
    Then, a bit of simple math gets you the exact pitchbend value to
    insert. Here's how:

    The maximum pitchbend value is 8191. If the maximum range is 12
    (one octave) then each note in the octave is "bent" by 1/12 of 8191,
    or 682 (close enough). So if you want to bend C up to D insert a
    pitchbend of 1364. This procedure is great for "stair-stepping" notes
    between two (or more) pitches. Same goes for bending down, only you
    insert negative vales. Inserting a -2046 bends C down to A. It will
    only take a minute to make yourself a chart with all the values. It's
    just 682 times the number of semi-tones you want to bend to.
    #6
    Home » [Cakewalk Products] » The Archives » Setting Pitch Bend Range?
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1