Denormal issue with DFHS and Sonar ?

Hello,

I'm having what appears to be denormal issues with the DFHS synth occuring at the end of a song. I just downloaded the Normalizer plug from DigitalFishPhones and am not sure if that's the correct solution. I'd need it to go BEFORE the DFHS synth correct? In that case, where exactly should it be placed, in the synth rack? (Is that even possible?) Or on the master drum output bus??

Any insight appreciated,

Sonic

** UPDATE **

Turns out this issue appears NOT to be DFHS-specific. So in fairness to the kind people at Toontrack I just wanted to clarify this at the top of this thread.

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phew..it's been a long time since I've seen any denormalization problems discussed

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=425725&mpage=1 (hey I see the original Al there..hehe)

I think it's just in effects..or synths that process audio on their inputs.. what you see there is probably not a denormalization problem.

Thanks Al. I already searched (actually saw that specific you provided).

I'm thinking this is likely a denormal problem, just not sure the mechanics of solving it since it's a soft synth. On my P4 system, stuttering, popping and CPU spikes at end of the song, and often times even when I stop playback I get the CPU spike. To troubleshoot, I deleted EVERY effect plug-in and also archived/froze every track. I also raised buffers and size, etc. Problem still occured. That's when I realized it was probably DFHS. Sure enough, I mute the three source MIDI drum tracks and the problem goes away. So my thoughts were to try a normalizing plug-in, but since this situation is a bit different than other's I've read about, I wasn't sure how or where exactly to utilize such a plug. Then again, if anybody has any explanations as to what else the cause could be, please let me know...

Sonic

Hey Bob, I should have known you used the search page :)

I read in your first post the "where to insert" point.. and that what made me thinking it's not a denormal there -

as far as I know you can't inset it anywhere..the denormal happens when some effects had to process very low (or silent) audio input resulting in that cpu overload thing. I guess any sampler like VST like DHFS doesn't create any situation like that at all (no audio to process..the silence at the end - right..but it's on the output..does dhfs process anything there..like realtime fx? ) also, there's no place to insert the Normalizer plug..as you noticed..you can't feed anything to it because it's not supposed to be fed.

so I support your "not sure if that's the correct solution" theory

On the surface it seems DFHS is purely a file-sample engine, but upon further thought...it's also performing file de/compression and pitching if I'm not mistken. So I suppose it's possible DFHS could introduce the denormal behavior in a P4 system... If the issue is a DFHS interaction, I remain unsure as to how to stop the denormal death spiral...



Sonic

A couple of things that popped into my mind:

Check the setting for the 64-bit audio engine and try the other setting. Also, you may need to play with the "direct from disk" settings in DFHS.

Best of luck,
J

Oops, I just noticed something .... my bad, there were FX plugins remaining - but ONLY on the kick and snare tracks. I just went ahead and disabled those and the problem dissapears. They are both "in the box" Sonar plugins - merely a single parametric EQ on the kick, and a single compressor/gate on the snare. That's all.

So I suspect I could put the normalizer plugin before those FX on those two tracks ? I'm still confused, does this mean I may end up having to put the normalizer plugin on all drum tracks which have effects?? Or maybe this is a problem with the "in the box" effects which I just never noticed before since I never had a "fading exit" on a song that had FX on the respective tracks before??

I'm running Sonar 2.2 if that means anything...

I suppose it wouldn't hurt at this point to try the normalizer since I've sort of figured out where it would need to go. But if anybody has any further insight or ideas to try, please let me know...

Sonic

Wait a second, a theory just occured to me....

I sat here thinking "Is there anything abnormal about the EQ and Comp/Gate plugs in this case?". The answer is "quite possibly".... I am using the comp/gate as a gate in this case, something I normally don't do. And also, the EQ is a radical curve where the highs are boosted to the max on a sharp swing, while conversely the lows are being reduced to the maximum cut. I'm wondering if maybe I am altering and/or stopping any of the "noise" that prevents denormals from occuring in the FX path due to the specific settings of these FX in this case. That would certainly explain the overal behavior I'm seeing...

I'll do some more testing and report back later, hopefully with some answers that explain what's going on....

Sonic

merely a single parametric EQ on the kick, and a single compressor/gate on the snare. That's all.

I remember i've seen some old threads about these CW effects ..can't remember the exact issues but it all sounds too familiar..
must have been here in the forums some years ago ..don't let me using the search..

Okay, the problem is FIXED. Whoohoo!! LoL

I downloaded and put the normalizer plug in front of the EQ and Gate on the respective kick and snare tracks. Not only did the problem go away, many Sonar operations are now more responsive.

I did some further research and it appears that indeed gating and radical EQ shaping (on the extreme ends of the spectrum - especially the lower frequencies) can end up indirectly causing denormalization to surface. I'm still not sure if the specific Sonar 2.2 plugs had issues to begin with (will have to research that later...). But the combination of the P4 processor, the Sonar plugs, the plug's settings, and the soft-synth drum-trails all worked together to generate the problem.

Sonic