Strange one: peak indicators don't display above 0.0db

Hi. This one's got me totally stumped. Using Sonar 3.1.1 under XP.

The peak indicators on Sonar's track headers have stopped displaying levels greater than 0.0db.

No matter how hot the signal, in both playback and record modes, the indicators go no higher than 0, displayed in red. Peak levels below 0 work normally, and peaks are cleared as usual when engaging transport. Old projects, new projects, same thing.

I uninstalled and then reinstallated Sonar. Same thing.

Then I completely deleted the entire Cakewalk folder tree, deleted the Cakewalk registry keys, and reinstalled. Same thing.

Then I restored a Ghost OS backup and installed Sonar (v3.0). But the peak levels still displayed no higher than 0.

Uninstalling and reinstalling the audio drivers made no difference -- which I didn’t expect anyway.

Everything else seems to be working fine.

Anyone have any ideas what could possibly cause such persistent weirdness across multiple installs?

Thanks!

CJ

Are you saying the peak indicators never show clipping or they just don't go above 0 ?

They will never go above 0. If it's not showing a clipped signal--are you using a limiter in the track? That would do it too.

So you mean that even if a signal is way clipped it still only shows as 0.0 db in the track view ? Maybe it's just that your recording technique is so good, you just hit exactly 0db every time ;)

btw, are you using peak or RMS monitoring ? And if you click on the db figure to clear it, it still peaks at 0.0 db ?

Also, did you try re-installing your soundcard drivers ? or swapping from WDM to ASIO or vice versa ?

cheers
Steve

Hey. Thanks for the suggestions.

ORIGINAL: Rousseau

So you mean that even if a signal is way clipped it still only shows as 0.0 db in the track view ?

Yes. In the track header, on the right, next to the min/max buttons. No matter how hot the input signal (with Record engaged), it shows no higher than 0.0.

Maybe it's just that your recording technique is so good, you just hit exactly 0db every time ;)

Well of course, it IS possible that I'm that good (yeah right) -- or as WhyBe suggested, there was a limiter at work. But no. It just doesn't update the numbers above 0 as input level increases.

btw, are you using peak or RMS monitoring ?

It's usually set to show both peak and RMS. Changing that doesn't make a difference.

And if you click on the db figure to clear it, it still peaks at 0.0 db ?

It clears normally, and then will show whatever the peak happens to be, up until it reaches 0.0, at which point it (usually) changes to red, and remains fixed at 0.0. I know this isn’t what's causing it, but it's almost as if it can't access a font, and so it isn't updating.

Also, did you try re-installing your soundcard drivers ? or swapping from WDM to ASIO or vice versa ?

Believe it or not, I've done all that, including two different versions of the Maudio Delta 66 drivers (.27 and .36). Also deleted aud.ini, and for good measure TTSEQ.ini and Cakewalk.ini. Makes no difference.

I also tried turning off HT in the bios, which I had turned on at roughly the same time this problem first showed up. Still no fun.

I have to admit this is making me question my understanding of how it's supposed to work.... If I have a live input (e.g., a mic or gtr) going into a track, and Record is engaged, and the signal is over 0 db, then the actual level should display in red in the track header, e.g., as 3.5 db? And upon playback, with Record off, the playback level should also reflect the exact value of the overs. Right?

That's what's not happening... I never see a numeric peak reading over 0.0.

I'm totally baffled.... any other good ideas out there......?

Thanks again.

CJ

Is it just on one project or any project you open?

Hi Billy.

It's all projects. Including new ones based on Sonar's default template.

A while back I discovered similar behavior that seemed isolated to just one project -- immediately upon opening it, several track headers indicated a peak of 0.0 in red, *without* there being any imput to the tracks and *before* pressing Play. IOW, it opened with certain tracks in an already clipped condition. I posted about it here: www.cakewalk.com/forum/tm.asp?m=94718

In that instance, I managed to work around it, most likely by recreating the tracks and deleting the originals (I don't recall the details.) I never determined what the actual problem was (never really pursued it) and I wrote it off as random project corruption. But now when I open that project, it's again behaving the same way, *plus* it's exhibiting the same behavior that prompted this thread.

Why would the numeric display of peak values in track headers apparently work OK all the way up to 0.0 db, but then be unable to display positive numbers? It's recording and playing back fine. So what would prevent the peak value field from updating once the values turned positive? I wouldn't think that would make any difference to the display itself -- it's just another number. So it must be something else. But what? Unless I'm overlooking something really obvious, it doesn't seem related to any options (such as the Meter options... the *meters* themselves seem to be OK.)

What's really strange about this behavior is how it's survived a total reinstall of Sonar (into clean folders), the reinstall of my audio drivers, the complete wiping of all Cakewalk entries in the registry, and even a re-Ghosted OS partition (under which this problem hadn't appeared), followed by yet another Sonar install. The only thing I haven't done is start from scratch-scratch, with a virgin XP reinstall. That seems kind of extreme (despite being able to Ghost), and offhand I wouldn't think it would help. But I can't think of anything else.

Any ideas... even wild guesses? I miss my peak values.

CJ

Cj,

I have seen similar behavior on some projects I was doing in the past, but almost without fail it had to do with my sound device drivers. You might want to consider going through all the audio options and re-checking that nothings has changed, and you might even want to reinstall the sound card drivers again. Although I see you've tried this, but maybe you should get a new copy of the drivers. This is just a guess, of course.

Also, are you using WDM or ASIO at this time?

One last thing... I seem to remember that on ONE project it occured that a plugin I was using caused the problem. Do you tend to use any plugins regularly or by default ? (Like an FX plugin for example)?