Panning Reverb for Vocals

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Dozer
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2008/10/30 10:54:33 (permalink)

Panning Reverb for Vocals

I am using 2 reverb instances for different elements of a vocal mix.
One for the lead vocal elements.
And another for elements that I want to put off in the distance,
by using predelay and other reverb(early reflection gain) parameters, and
equalization parameters(rolloff the highs)

Example: Lead Vocal tracks sent to a Lead Vocal Buss. Lead Vocal Buss has send enabled for Lead Reverb.
Adlibs or other background vocals sent to respective buss. Those busses have send enabled for Back Reverb.
2 Busses have my Reverbs. One reverb called Lead Reverb, the other called Back Reverb(for background elements).

Im wondering if anyone here pans thier reverb.


Pristine Space is the only plugin that Ive found that really allows panning of the reverb, and
allows the "Send" panner to ACTUALLY follow the "Buss" pan(when enabled).
I varify this by disabling POST fader for the send, and turning the Lead Vocal buss volume fader
all the way down.
This as you know, allows me to hear only the Reverb signal.

But even so, when the send panner has "Follow Bus Pan" enabled, the reverb signal also pans if I pan a TRACK that is being sent to the BUSS that has the Send.

Now besides all that...

For instance lets say you have a lead vocal that is dead center.

And then you have a vocal, lets say an adlib of some sort, panned 30% to the right.

And lets say you have the adlibs going to their own buss. 2 Busses actually.
One buss named Adlib Left, and another Adlib Right.

Now the actuall panning of the Adlib is done via the Bus.
The ones that are panned right, are sent to the Adlib Right buss.
(Usually only need one element of adlibs, either left or right)

The Adlib Buss(that the adlib tracks are sent to) carries the plugin compressor, eq, and whatnot.

MORE ON THAT SCENARIO:
Using any plugin other than Pristine Space.
The "Background Reverb" bus, that has the reverb plugin, setup to mimic sound from a further distance.
I enable a send to that reverb on the "Adlib Right" buss(that all the adlib right tracks are routed too)

I dail in some reverb. The adlib voice is panned to the right(via the track panner), but the reverb is in the same spot, as if the vocal was
panned center.
I varify this by disabling POST fader for the send, and turning the Lead Vocal buss volume fader
all the way down.
This as you know, allows me to hear only the Reverb signal.
I pan the vocal left, the reverb remains stationary.

But if I use the Pristine Space, it actually pans with the vocal....

SO HERE IS MY MAIN QUESTION AFTER ALL THIS RAMBLING...
Does anyone here even pan their reverbs?
If all of your vocals had the same reverb, it would be a big mess of reverb all in the same spot.
Will muddy/fuzz up the mix.
Ive read and seen in videos that its good to, lets say, if you have a vocal panned left, pan the reverb to the opposite side.
And ive read other ways of panning the reverb.
Such as using the width function, and so forth.
If it doesn't have it, insert a stereo expander after the Reverb on the Reverb FX buss.

Also Im looking into just adding sends to the Tracks themselves, and allowing the Send Panner to "Follow Track Pan"
post edited by Dozer - 2009/04/23 02:16:32

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    Danny Danzi
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 11:01:43 (permalink)
    Yes sir, I'm a pan freak here. However, most times I use a plug to do the panning for me like Waves Shuffler or Blue Tubes. Mostly I control how far each verb or effect is reaching out in the stereo spectrum, but I have had to literally pan and offset things a few times. It all depends on the project and what I'm going for.

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    losguy
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 12:17:20 (permalink)
    Agree. For useful control of reverb spread, stick a stereo panning plugin (like GPan or the Blue Cat one) after your reverb plugin on the bus. Sounds like you're already aware of send pan (for other readers, it positions the source in the reverb field).

    OTR, I would love it if SONAR had a way to put a separate FX chain on the send signal, before it reaches the Bus. It's complicated, but it would allow forsome really cool customized sends.

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    #3
    bitflipper
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 12:21:55 (permalink)
    I often use Perfect Space's internal panning feature, which allows you to gradually shift the reverb to one side. I like to have the first 0.5 second center and then move off to one side. This lets you have a longer tail without stepping on the next phrase in the vocal.

    More important than panning, IMO, is EQ on the reverb return, rolling off both the high and low end.


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    losguy
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 14:14:11 (permalink)
    Agree again. I'll add that adding EQ ahead of the reverb in the FX bin can be very useful too, like for suppressing buildups or slapbacks (most effective on nonlinear / gated verbs).

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    mlockett
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 14:47:15 (permalink)
    Any verb panning I do is subtle (if I pan at all). In real-life situations, the reverb doesn't only come from the direction of the original source; a spring reverb on a guitar amp my sound natural to be localized to an area, but ambient reverbs are typically not localized. If the verb is on a bus, and you send a panned track to the bus, there will be a natural pan effect.
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    losguy
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 15:35:43 (permalink)
    If you are in a room with a reverberant hallway to the side, and the source is in the hallway or near the entrance, then the reverb from that hallway will be localized. Granted, that's a special case, but nonetheless an example of something that can occur commonly in certain environments (with separated chambers).

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    mlockett
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 17:05:30 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: losguy

    If you are in a room with a reverberant hallway to the side, and the source is in the hallway or near the entrance, then the reverb from that hallway will be localized. Granted, that's a special case, but nonetheless an example of something that can occur commonly in certain environments (with separated chambers).

    True... if you're looking for an effect that simulates that scenario or other similar scenarios, panning the verb certainly makes sense. My point wasn't that a person should never do... only that I seldom do it.
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    losguy
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 18:49:45 (permalink)
    Gotcha... So if you ever do, I'll know that you were suddenly in the mood for a weird-shaped space.

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    mlockett
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    RE: Panning Reverb for Vocals 2008/10/30 18:52:55 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: losguy

    Gotcha... So if you ever do, I'll know that you were suddenly in the mood for a weird-shaped space.

    There's nothing wrong with weird.
    #10
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