Using Kitcore with Sonar

haskins02


I am considering purchase of Kitcore Deluxe 2 to help develop quality drum tracks.  I am using Sonar 6 Studio (did NOT include Session Drummer 2) and have little experiences with plug-ins and samplers.  So before purchase, I want to make sure I do not have any major misconceptions. 
 
1.  Is it true that Kitcore includes both MIDI groves and its own SAMPLER (containing drum kits) that plays those MIDI groves?

It has MIDI groves as well as drum samples, but you cannot add your own samples, only Submersible "kitpacks" (almost all of which are already included in the Deluxe version). It allows you to mix and match individual drums from the included samples to create your own kit though.

 
2.  The quality of drum sounds I hear when I listen to Submersible Music’s “Audio Player” on their website is very good.  Once KitCore is installed in my computer, I should hear the same sound quality because the same MIDI groves are being played on the same drum kits (Kitcore’s own sampler), correct?

Correct.

 
3.  I understand KitCore is a plugin.  But exactly how do I use it with Sonar?  For example, after installation, do I insert KitCore as a “Soft Synth”, select a Kitcore drum kit (which plays on its own sampler) and assign it to a MIDI drum track in Sonar, audition MIDI groves in Kitcore, and then copy and paste the MIDI grooves I like into the Sonar drum track?
 

You use it as a Soft Synth. You can copy (or also drag, I believe) the MIDI grooves into Sonar Midi tracks for editing with all of Sonar's tools.

4.  I found it for $95 on the web.  Are there cheaper prices around?  Is there anything like Cakewalk Forum discounts on non-Cakewalk products?
 
Thanks.  I have been getting great help from the folks on this forum.
 
Greg

You also might want to try the demo before you buy, to make sure it does what you want.

drewfx

As an amendment to my initial post, is there any program like Kitcore that also includes bass groves to go along with the drum beats?  I realize the problem with a bass line is that it infers a melody and takes away from one�s creativity.  So it�s not that important, but just thought I would ask.  I would like to stick with MIDI grooves, not audio.  Thanks again.
 
Greg

I think most of your questions have been answerd already but here is my take.
Kitcore deluxe comes with a very wide range of sampled drum kits, you get a wide sound pallet for your money. The sound you hear should be better than the MP3 demos because it won't be strangled by the MP3 conversion process but essentially if you use the same midi groove and the same kit at the same tempo, it will be like the sample. Of course you are not limited to any particular kit, so you could send an Alan White 7/8 prog rock groove to a Luis Conte latin kit and see what happens
Most kits, except the Latin stuff are close to GM mapping, but some are unusual and go beyond GM, so swapping the kits may result in an unexpected result and I have had a couple of “happy accidents” that way. But its worth bearing in mind that GrooveMonkey fils for example my not work as expected with the more exotic kits.
 
The Kitcore grooves are actually stored in a proprietary format, but when you drag them into the DAW they become midi and you can send the track to another drum program, but you can't preview the grooves in EZ Drummer for example. For me this is drawback, albeit a minor one.
You can tune the samples in Kitcore, which is nice, you can vary the volume of individual drums too but you don’t get microphone placement or the ability to mix room ambiance etc. Having said that I find it easier to get Kitcore to sit in the mix than I do EZ Drummer, but that’s probably a skill gap on my part.
 
If you want to expand you sounds eSoundz is selling Omni Drummer Kit packs for Kitcore at $15 each, and you get a discount when you buy two. They are around 800MB per kit and sound very good. I have Brit Rock, Classic Rock and the Jazz kit. I also downloaded a free 1GB Ocean Way drum kit for Kitcore from eSounds but have not tried it yet.

Drumcore is a great instrument.
Lots of high quality sounds and grooves.

They have released Drumcore 3 FREE which is a fully functional version of Drumcore but without all of the expansion libraries.
They want to give you the full Drumcore experience in hopes you purchase more Kit packs.
http://www.submersiblemusic.com/TemplateMain.aspx?contentId=65


What this does allow you to do is use the Drumcore Toolkit to build your own kits.
This is a very intuitive process that allows you to build multi layered kits from your own sounds.  I did some experiments with this using some of the Session Drummer 2 sounds.

So you can purchase KitCore and download the free version of Drumcore 3 to allow you to roll your own sounds. 

They also released a free Ocean Way drum kit for Drumcore that sounds really nice.

I have been working with both of them in Sonar and have been very satisfied with the results.

The Omnidrummer kits sound pretty good, the sample sets are bigger than the Kitcore sets and it shows. They are better than you would expect at the price.

The Birch Jazz is a nice warm sound. British Rock has a lot of ambiance while classic rock is dryer. The down side is they do take a while to load into Kitcore, but a close on a GB thats only to be expected. They really do need to improve the descriptions on the web!
 

Thanks folks; lots of good info.  It�s fine with me that Kitcore is a �rompler� sampler, in that it can�t record or import non-Kitcore sounds, except perhaps for the Omni Drumer Kit.  I want something that is simple to use and not too much to tweak.
 
Just to make sure I understand how Kitcore works with Sonar, is this correct?: If I want to use Kitcore with a Sonar Project, I would add Kitcore as a soft synth to the synth rack.  I would next assign Kitcore to the drum track�s output, and a assign a Kitcore drum kit to the track�s Bank and/or Patch field.   A separate track for the Kitcore�s soft synth would automatically appear (just like for other soft synths). Double clicking on Kitcore in the synth rack would open the Kitcore main program window.  After previewing MIDI grooves and kits on it, I would click and drag desired grooves to my Sonar track to edit.  Question:  I also understand that I can drag my drum track back to Kitcore for additional editing, but what kind of editing, considering I should be able to change the track�s assigned Kitcore drum kit within the Sonar track (if my assumptions are correct)?
 
Finally, is there a smart method to developing a bass track once you have created your song�s drum track using Kitcore?  For example, is there a good method to import the basic drum groove into Sonar and use the Groove Quantize to help develop a bass pattern?  (I quantize but I have never used groove quantize)
 
Thanks again for the help.
Greg

Thanks Glyn!  Kitcore seems just what I need.

Greg

What's up with all the different font sizes? Is this a bug in the forum program?

Thanks for trying to resolve the issue, but I've copied and pasted dozens of messages from Word and Notepad and didn't have the problem...

papa2005


Thanks for trying to resolve the issue, but I've copied and pasted dozens of messages from Word and Notepad and didn't have the problem...

As far as I've been able to figure, indented paragraphs show up small

like this

and outdented are big. Unfortunately, it doesn't really show up correctly until after you post. Is that what you're talking about?

drewfx