chaunceyc
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Soft synths silenced after rewind
This seems to have started since 8.5 and it was driving me nuts -- Soft Synths play fine, the song ends and you rewind to the beginning of the project and the synths go silent -- you can see midi input still coming in from the keyboard on the midi track, but no sound comes out of the synth track until you hit the space bar once to move past the beginning of the project. You then have to hit it again to stop playback. I have had every version of Cakewalk Pro audio and Sonar and this phenomenon is new and very annoying. You add a new synth track and expect to be able to preview it, but no sound comes out if you are at the beginning of a song...you never know if it is your midi devices disappearing (which happens too often) or this start-of-track issue.
Anyone else seeing this?
I have already reported the issue of focus tracks not sticking within templates like the used to and Cakewalk has recreated that issue is working on that. (You select a particular track to have focus before saving the template, but when you open it, some other random track has focus instead).
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brundlefly
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/10/26 15:06:44
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Anyone else seeing this?
I have seen this off and on for several versions. Sometimes rewinding will turn off the audio engine. Starting playback restarts the engine. Or you can just click the audio engine button. I've had this more commonly in new projects that don't have any soft synths or recorded audio in them, which is why I now add a dummy synth to all of my hardware synth project templates to keep the audio engine alive. Edit: I'm going ot amend this. I just went back and looked at some notes I made on this to report it as a bug once upon a time, and found that when I was seeing this before, the engine indicator would remain lit, and all MIDI and audio meters would operate, but I'd have no audio output. And I am able to recreate this in 8.5 by setting up to record MIDI with input-monitored hardware synths. With only the MIDI track armed, if I start recording, and then abort and rewind without hitting any keys so nothing is recorded and no audio is echoed, then when I rewind, I'll have no audio output as described above. Unfortunately, I just removed all my old versions of SONAR from my DAW over the weekend, so I can't go back and confirm that this existed previously, though I suspect it did. It may also be audio driver-specific: I'm running an E-MU 1820m PCI in ASIO mode.
post edited by brundlefly - 2009/10/26 15:25:00
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billp
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/10/26 15:17:17
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Is it this?
Options ==> Project ==>Midi Out tab: Zero Controllers When Play Stops
I have always to remember to turn this off.
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brundlefly
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/10/26 15:39:28
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Options ==> Project ==>Midi Out tab: Zero Controllers When Play Stops I have always to remember to turn this off.
Well now, that's interesting. It does eliminate the problem, but it doesn't have anything to do with MIDI volume in my synths. I say this because if I direct monitor my synths, they are still producing audio at normal levels in response to the echoed MIDI, and the meters in SONAR show that it's being received, it's just not being echoed out to my interface... or my interface isn't sending the echoed audio to the actual output. I wonder if my interface is somehow responding to Zero Controllers by silencing its output bus...? I'll have to look into this a bit more. I have to remind myself what all gets sent with Zero Controllers. Edit: Nah. There's still something buggy here, because my interface mixer is still showing the audio input, and will send it to the output if I direct-monitor the input in the mixer. It's just that SONAR is not echoing the audio toe ASIO Out, despite what the meters show. And the kicker is that the setting is "Zero Controllers When Play Stops", but the issue occurs on Rewind, not on stopping playback. There's definitely a connection between that setting and this problem, but as I said, I don't think it has anything to do with MIDI.
post edited by brundlefly - 2009/10/26 15:57:02
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chaunceyc
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/10/26 15:58:39
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brundlefly
I have seen this off and on for several versions. Sometimes rewinding will turn off the audio engine. Starting playback restarts the engine. Or you can just click the audio engine button. I've had this more commonly in new projects that don't have any soft synths or recorded audio in them, which is why I now add a dummy synth to all of my hardware synth project templates to keep the audio engine alive.
Edit: I'm going ot amend this. I just went back and looked at some notes I made on this to report it as a bug once upon a time, and found that when I was seeing this before, the engine indicator would remain lit, and all MIDI and audio meters would operate, but I'd have no audio output.
And I am able to recreate this in 8.5 by setting up to record MIDI with input-monitored hardware synths. With only the MIDI track armed, if I start recording, and then abort and rewind without hitting any keys so nothing is recorded and no audio is echoed, then when I rewind, I'll have no audio output as described above. Unfortunately, I just removed all my old versions of SONAR from my DAW over the weekend, so I can't go back and confirm that this existed previously, though I suspect it did.
It may also be audio driver-specific: I'm running an E-MU 1820m PCI in ASIO mode.
I am still seeing the engine light lit continuously when the audio stops as well. I am using MOTU 2408 MK II (PCI424) with ASIO drivers. As to the "zero controllers when play stops" I had to checked that at one point to fix another issue, but it is currently unchecked and still seeing this stoppage. The other irritating thing about this is I that open a project full of soft synths using a template and it makes no sound upon opening. Cycling the engine off/on or hitting the spacebar is required.
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brundlefly
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/10/26 16:05:14
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The other irritating thing about this is I that open a project full of soft synths using a template and it makes no sound upon opening. Cycling the engine off/on or hitting the spacebar is required. Are these instrument tracks, or separate MIDI and Audio tracks? I use separate MIDI and Audio tracks, and don't think I've ever had a project be silent at start-up. I also manually enable MIDI echo on tracks, rather than relying on the Always Echo Current MIDI Track setting.
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chaunceyc
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/10/26 16:11:16
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brundlefly
Are these instrument tracks, or separate MIDI and Audio tracks? I use separate MIDI and Audio tracks, and don't think I've ever had a project be silent at start-up. I also manually enable MIDI echo on tracks, rather than relying on the Always Echo Current MIDI Track setting.
They tend to be all Instrument (aka Simple) tracks. Tech folks thought this also seemed to be the contributing factor for the template focus issue I mentioned as well . I mention it here because I thought it might be relevant.
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chaunceyc
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/20 16:31:58
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Bump. There is no reason Sonar should be silencing all instruments including monitored ones every time the track is rewound to the start. The engine is ON, as it is when the track is opened (no sound there either unless you hit the space bar). This is slowly driving me crazy. This is brand new behavior. No sound at 00:00:00:00, but everything plays fine at 00:00:00:01 A millisecond makes all the difference in playback, apparently.
post edited by chaunceyc - 2009/11/20 16:34:33
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A1MixMan
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/20 16:39:36
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I have this same or very similar problem since loading 8.5. See my thread here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1866945&high= I never did find a work around yet, I just remember to turn the audio engine back on every time. Pain in the ass.
post edited by A1MixMan - 2009/11/20 16:43:11
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brundlefly
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/20 17:37:55
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Two new features that might have a bearing:
1. Allow arming to record during playback, which I have disabled (I think it's in Global Options).
2. New setting in AUD.INI to 'minimize audio driver resets' or somesuch. I believe it's enabled by default.
Sorry, I'm not in front of my DAW, so the terminology and locations are from memory.
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RB Jones
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/20 19:18:23
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I have a similar problem. TTS-1 works fine with drums, for example. I can switch to Session Drummer while the song is playing and it works. As soon as I stop or rewind the synth -- Session Drummer -- has no audio output until I disable it and re-enable it again in the Synth Rack. Dimension Pro has the same problem with a bass track, for instance. If I start the song with any soft synth -- Dimension Pro for example -- other than TTS-1 -- audio is immediately disabled to those synths. TTS-1 tracks play normally. This only occurs on random projects. I have other projects where there is no problem.
I suspected something in a midi file that is turning off the synths but I've checked the events list and even disabled events and it still won't work. Yet, TTS-1 works like a charm.
I've tried turning various things on and off, including the tip above, but there is no change in the behavior.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 11:02:33
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I have seen this, or somthing very similar, too. It has only occured when I was messing about with some third party general midi files and assigning the tracks to various soft synths. I assumed it was down to controller commands of system exclusive messages in the files, however I did not see any obvious cause. I noted that it does not affect all the soft synths, True Pianos seemed to be the most problematic.
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ChristopherM
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 12:28:58
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I'm running an E-MU 1820m PCI in ASIO mode. I also run E-MU and I see this behaviour sporadically. I'll admit that I have not found it too irritating, so I have not spent any time investigating. I'd say that it occurs mainly with Rapture and Dim Pro, rather than third-party synths, but I wouldn't swear to that.
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billp
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 13:02:11
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I did a little more research on this--port monitor, midi event filter--, since I have experienced the problem where Dim Pro will cease to function. I my case, I am driving SONAR via Midi Yoke with a piece of software that generates a CC38/value=0 (don't know why), which is the "fine" adjustment of the Data Entry Slider. This CC completely disables Dim Pro. I have to delete and re-add Dim Pro to reset this. The midi msgs, note on/off, etc. continue to come from my keyboard (DX7), but Dim Pro stops responding after receiving the CC38 from the external software. The "coarse" adjustment, (CC6), is also transmitted by the external software, but does not cause Dim Pro to stop responding.
So maybe a controller is being transmitted that is causing the problem. I'm sure it's not a soundcard problem because other synths continue to work. I'm using a Profire 610 (my EMU 1820 is not currently connected).
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brundlefly
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 13:17:47
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I am driving SONAR via Midi Yoke with a piece of software that generates a CC38/value=0 (don't know why), which is the "fine" adjustment of the Data Entry Slider. This CC completely disables Dim Pro.
I cannot reproduce this with a CC38 = 0 message inserted in a MIDI track driving Dim Pro. I think this is a red herring. All of my experience with this problem ndicates that the problem is not with the audio source itself (be it hardware or software synth), but just that SONAR stops sending audio data from the host audio track to the output bus, even though it continues to show audio activity in the track output meter. Is anyone actually seeing output activity cease in the track meter? Edit: I'm thinking maybe the CC38 thing is with a particular patch that responds to it...? I just used Piano patch for my test.
post edited by brundlefly - 2009/11/21 13:25:12
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A1MixMan
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 16:45:47
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Is anyone actually seeing output activity cease in the track meter? Not me. I still see it.
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rkopald
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 17:31:04
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I have this problem sporadically and the only thing I've been able to do as a workaround is to close and reopen the project and everything seems to work fine after that. This doesn't happen to me with all projects, however. Seems to be somewhat random.
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billp
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 17:38:04
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Mea culpa. I meant to say that CC6/0 shut off Dim Pro, but CC38/0 did not. Disconnect/reconnect does not restore it. CC6/0 also shuts offr Rapture LE, but disconnect/reconnect restores it.
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billp
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2009/11/21 17:39:24
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A1MixMan
Is anyone actually seeing output activity cease in the track meter?
Not me. I still see it.
Same here. Still see it.
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chaunceyc
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Re:Soft synths silenced after rewind
2010/01/11 23:38:21
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This is still going on. Hopefully they are still looking at this.
It drives me crazy having to do this mini-troubleshooting over and over and over and over and over:
I'd like to audition this track's softsynth. I'll Hit a key on the keyboard. Hmm. No sound coming out.
Is my current focus / echo through on a midi track of a synth track? yes
Is the audio engine light on? Yes
Is my mixer muted or turned down? No
Is the midi indicator in the system tray responding to the keyboard? Yes
and finally: IS MY TRACK VIEW "NOW" INDICATOR at 00:00:00:00 OR HAVE I RECENTLY HIT THE SPACEBAR TWICE IN ORDER TO MOVE IT SOME RANDOM AMOUNT FORWARD IN ORDER TO MAKE MY DAW PRODUCE ANY SOUND WHATSOEVER?
Grrrrrr
I can't tell you how many times I've been working out an arrangement of some meaty chord voicing while playing atop another track and suddenly the track ends: Poof! All sound stops and I have to take my hand off the midi keyboard in order to re-enable audio. It is killing my creative workflow.
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