hellogoodbye
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Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
Man, I have to say I've never been happier with my DAW than I am now! A few weeks ago I installed Windows 7, Sonar 8.5 (bot x64) on my computer with a i7 920 CPU (my previous DAW was Vista 32 bit, Sonar 7 and a E6600 CPU). I just can't believe what I am seeing...! I just finished my first songs since a year and a half (more about that one here) and Sonar refuses to lock up, drop out, no matter what I do...! I have an Edirol FA-66 and I am used to setting it to 10 ms latency. On my previous computer this would work with the first tracks, but when it came to recording vocals and adding effects, I really had to change it to 20 ms or more to avoid drop outs, clicks and ticks, etc. Not with this setup... The song I made has about 8 tracks with softsynths: three instances of RealStrat, all having Guitar Rig 3 in the effect bin, one RealGuitar with a reverb, two instances of Dim Pro, one EZDrummer (my new toy) with a reverb and the ABSOLUTELY AWESOME PX64 percussion strip!!!) and one Scarbee Pre-bass (another new toy, using Kontakt). And then there are 14 vocal tracks, two with an EQ, reverb, compressor, VC64 and the new VX64, and the others are routed to two busses with the same effects in them (plus the Channel tools on one of them). And on the master there is Boost 11 and a reverb. Now on my old DAW this wouldn't have worked well (drop out galore) unless I moved the latency slider up a lot, but not now. Everything is as stable as can be and plays without any hickups or problems. It's absolutely awesome!!! No need to up the ms anymore! And the CPU usage never exceeds 16% or so, which is a laugh! I like the PX64 a lot: I already was pretty pleased the EZDrummer sound (Nashville) but the sounds rather drowned in this particular song. Then I added the PX64, chose the Moderately Bright preset and BANG the drums really popped out in the mix! (Had to tweak the EQ a bit to keep some low boom). All in all I am VERY happy with Sonar 8.5, Windows 7 and the i7 920 CPU. It's absolutely stunning. Making music has never been so easy and good and great!  It's a rock solid setup and I love it. This was money well spend!!!
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
Check out Soundclick
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ba_midi
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/28 13:34:41
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That sounds great. I'm planning on an i7 soon too, when time allows.
BTW, if you like the Scarbee Pre-Bass (which I have and also like), you might want to check out Spectrasonics new Trilian Bass. I think it's actually a lot better, though they're both quite good.
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garrigus
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/28 14:39:26
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Genghis
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/28 14:49:32
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Yeah, these new i7s are killer! I'm so glad I got mine. I have one project that hit 40%, but that's at 64 buffers and with quite a few CPU intensive soft synths running. Most of them run at less than 25%.
I was planning on one day getting a UAD-2 to go along with my 2 UAD-1s, but now that I see how the i7 performs, I'm more interested in getting all native x64 plug-ins than I am in getting some of the new UAD-2 only plug-ins. I'm sure they sound great, but the Voxengo plugs I'm using in their place are pretty sweet too, and they run native 64-bit.
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gt2004
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/28 20:40:24
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The i7 is a monster you just cant go wrong with it. Wait till the i9 comes out next year. I was doing a test on my system last night with 22 tracks of VST Atmosphere, Nexus wtih 20 audio tracks and 60 instance of Izatop ozone 4 and boost 11 and LP64. The system was at 39% CPU load
DUAL Processor XEON W5590 INTEL 160GB SSD G2 INTEL 80GB SSD G2
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timidi
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/28 22:19:46
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So, is it the i7 or the 64 bit environment (that allows more ram) that makes it all so wonderful? Or what??
I'd love to uprade and make things "better" but I refuse to get a new audio card that supports 64 bit (mine doesn't and won't ever). So, I would be upgrading to only i7 win7-32.
seems all these conversations are based on 64 bits, i7, more useable ram.
Is the processor not as important anymore??
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gt2004
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/28 23:14:36
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timidi As far as the Ram you need 64bit to get more then 3.5GB. But As far as the RAW POWER 64 doesnt play that big a of a roll compare to 32bit. Its better in alot of ways to go to 64bit its SAD to put a 32 bit app and os on a 64bit CPU. As far as going with an i7 on 32 bit you can do everything that you can with a 64bit os and program just less RAM.
DUAL Processor XEON W5590 INTEL 160GB SSD G2 INTEL 80GB SSD G2
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aj
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 06:52:37
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For those on a modest budget, don't forget the core i5 750. This will give you a very significant portion of the core i7 performance but for a considerable reduction in overall cost. The core i7 platform is still quite expensive, particularly as budget motherboards are still not readily available for this platform. Have a look at http://www.hardwarecanuck...rocessor-review-2.html and you can see the comparative processor specifications At present the core i5 750 is probably at the sweet spot for 'bang for the buck', so definitely worth checking out. Also power consumption is lower and it should therefore be easier to build a quiet machine.
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cmusicmaker
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 07:14:59
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gt2004
The i7 is a monster you just cant go wrong with it. Wait till the i9 comes out next year. I was doing a test on my system last night with 22 tracks of VST Atmosphere, Nexus wtih 20 audio tracks and 60 instance of Izatop ozone 4 and boost 11 and LP64. The system was at 39% CPU load
Thats is crazy! I have an i7 and never tried 60 instances of Izotope Ozone...maybe I should  I7's provide an almost nonsensical amount of power. Thanks for sharing that. It could be that pretty much any project now can be swallowed up with an i7.
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garrigus
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 11:16:58
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gt2004
The i7 is a monster you just cant go wrong with it. Wait till the i9 comes out next year. I was doing a test on my system last night with 22 tracks of VST Atmosphere, Nexus wtih 20 audio tracks and 60 instance of Izatop ozone 4 and boost 11 and LP64. The system was at 39% CPU load
Oh please don't be mentioning the i9 or anything more powerful... I just upgraded to the i7 a few months ago and I'd like this new system to last at least 2 or 3 years. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/ - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/ Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/ Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 12:37:02
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So, is it the i7 or the 64 bit environment (that allows more ram) that makes it all so wonderful? Or what??
The Core2Quads were fast/capable... The i7 is even faster... and with the memory controller onboard it's particularly good at ultra low-latency settings. With good cooling, the i7-920 will happily run at 3.2GHz... making it equivalent to a ~$1000 CPU. As a point of comparison, the i7-860 has to run at 3.6GHz to *barely* surpass the 920 at 3.2GHz. You have to goose the voltage to get the 860 completely stable at 3.6GHz. The 920 will typically run at 3.2GHz without increasing voltage. If you have any incling to overclock the i5 or i7, don't even consider the cheap mATX motherboards. You'll burn them up... If you factor in a quality motherboard for a socket 1156 system, it's not that much less than an equal quality socket 1136 setup. (The 1156 motherboards are slightly cheaper... but the CPU is slightly more) With good quality 3rd party cooling, you can build a quite DAW with any i5/i7 CPU.
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2009/11/29 12:39:12
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 12:45:18
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It could be that pretty much any project now can be swallowed up with an i7. I'd say that's true for all but the most extreme of projects/circumstances...  I never feel limited by my 3.2GHz i7 DAW. It can run an absurd amount of quality plugins. ie: A single instance of Waves SSL channel-strip hardly registers on CPU use You can easily run the channel-strip on each of your tracks... and have plenty of CPU left over for 'bus' processing... as well as multiple instances of delay/reverb/etc.
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farrarbc
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 13:35:28
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I'm also loving the Win 7 64bit and Sonar 8.5.1 PE on my i7 920. I'm also overclocked to 3.2GHz and am never seeing any significantly higher temps than I was seeing at stock speed. I've yet to really get this machine to break a sweat even with projects with over 45 tracks (eqs, compressors, 9 to 12 soft synths, reverbs, and other plugs.) I'm rarely seeing more than 35% CPU utilization. Right now I'm only running 3 GB DDR3 in trichannel mode but will be upgrading to 12GB when the 4GB ram chips come down in price. Somehow paying $300 - $400 per gig seems so 1990's....
--BF Sonar X1 Producer Expanded Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2 MoonLight Handgrenade DAW Win7 64bit Intel i7-980 Gigabyte G1 Guerilla 24GB Corsair DDR3 RAM (4) 320 GB Seagates
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 13:39:39
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Somehow paying $300 - $400 per gig seems so 1990's.... DDR3 has been increasing in price the past several months... So the latest/greatest 4GB sticks are going for a premium. Here's hoping the price starts tilting the other direction
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SilkTone
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 13:55:21
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cmusicmaker
Thats is crazy! I have an i7 and never tried 60 instances of Izotope Ozone...maybe I should I7's provide an almost nonsensical amount of power. Thanks for sharing that. It could be that pretty much any project now can be swallowed up with an i7.
Oh you know people will figure out a way to use up all the power in no time. I mean, has anyone ever tried a buffer size of 1 sample? Is it even possible? Let's try...
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 14:04:46
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has anyone ever tried a buffer size of 1 sample? Is it even possible? Let's try... One sample won't work... but you can run fairly substantial loads with a 32-sample ASIO buffer size (assuming the audio interface is solid and provides this low buffer size). We need to get audio interface designers (and driver developers) to focus on small ASIO buffer sizes. I know MOTU has been taking a step backward in this regard (with the drivers for their newer DSP equipped units). Give me small ASIO buffer sizes. I'll decide if/when I can use them...
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farrarbc
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/29 14:11:46
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Jim Roseberry
DDR3 has been increasing in price the past several months...
So the latest/greatest 4GB sticks are going for a premium.
Here's hoping the price starts tilting the other direction
Here's to hope!!!!
--BF Sonar X1 Producer Expanded Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2 MoonLight Handgrenade DAW Win7 64bit Intel i7-980 Gigabyte G1 Guerilla 24GB Corsair DDR3 RAM (4) 320 GB Seagates
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garrigus
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/30 17:23:31
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A1MixMan
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/30 17:46:27
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Well, I'll throw my experience in with this. My i7 920, Win7 Sonar 8.5 in 64 bit is working great as well. It's fun to just make music instead of worring about getting your system working. It just works. Very cool indeed.
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Sound Advice
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/30 18:02:03
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garrigus
I wonder when we will all have our very own super computers at home or in the studio with software that is artificially intelligent so that you can just tell it what to do?
Scott
--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/ - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/
Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/
Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/
ya, but the downside to that, is if we ever create any of those, they'll likely start telling us what to do. which actually come to think of it, if we make em smart enough i actually don't have much of a problem with. although we could like achieve a artificial artificial intelligence, if you know what i mean, a non-sentient software that mimicks sentience well, but it would inevitably have lots of limitations for many many years with all the nuances and stuff of language, no matter how powerful your computer is. and actually the i7s could probably do this without too much difficulty it's just writing the software that's incredibly tough at that point i think. eventually, the needs for higher computing power will be incredibly limited. at least i think so.
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TomG
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/11/30 18:49:10
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Hi Jim
Is there any particular reason that most driver developers dont offer a 16 sample or 8 sample buffer setting ?
My Echo Layla 3G and my i7 DAW runs everything I can throw at it at 32 samples no problem - would be good to at least have the option of going lower if your DAW can handle it.
Thanks and all the best,
Tom
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garrigus
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/01 11:17:49
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Sound Advice
although we could like achieve a artificial artificial intelligence, if you know what i mean, a non-sentient software that mimicks sentience well, but it would inevitably have lots of limitations for many many years with all the nuances and stuff of language, no matter how powerful your computer is. and actually the i7s could probably do this without too much difficulty it's just writing the software that's incredibly tough at that point i think.
eventually, the needs for higher computing power will be incredibly limited. at least i think so.
Can I please just have my robot butler now, please? I have a lot of things that need to be done around the house.  Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/ - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/ Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/ Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/01 12:09:25
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Is there any particular reason that most driver developers dont offer a 16 sample or 8 sample buffer setting ? Audio interface companies are trying to ensure a glitch-free experience for all end-users. Not a bad goal... but it comes at the expense of those who could benefit from the option of smaller buffer sizes. I'd like to see these companies re-focus on providing the lowest possible latency. Put a disclaimer by the ultra small buffer sizes ("Use at your own risk!")... Software based input monitoring will never achieve zero-latency... But we can certainly get closer to that ideal
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SilkTone
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/01 13:07:44
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Jim Roseberry
Is there any particular reason that most driver developers dont offer a 16 sample or 8 sample buffer setting ?
Audio interface companies are trying to ensure a glitch-free experience for all end-users.
Not a bad goal... but it comes at the expense of those who could benefit from the option of smaller buffer sizes.
I'd like to see these companies re-focus on providing the lowest possible latency.
Put a disclaimer by the ultra small buffer sizes ("Use at your own risk!")...
Software based input monitoring will never achieve zero-latency...
But we can certainly get closer to that ideal
Sound travels at 1125 ft/s. That means that at 44.1kHz sampling rate, one sample equates to 0.3" of distance traveled. That means that the difference between realtime monitoring (say, via a guitar amp), and using Sonar + Amplitube 2 with a buffer size of 1 sample would be the difference between sitting 6ft away from the speaker vs sitting 6ft 0.3" away from the speaker. Put another way, a 1 sample buffer would be the same amount of delay as putting your ear 0.3" away from the speaker. The bottom line is that for all practical purposes, the delay from a 1 sample buffer would be virtually undetectable, and therefore would be equivalent to realtime monitoring. So yes, we still have some way to go. We need both the driver developers to allow buffer sizes to go down to 1 sample, and CPUs to become fast enough to process in 1 sample buffers. At the rate we are going now, there is no reason to think we won't be able to hit that point in a few years. As a point of interest, I have an old book that talks about using CPUs to process audio data. It talks about things like (paraphrasing): "After you wrote the DSP program, run it to start processing your 1 minute of 8-bit, 11kHz, mono sample. Let it run overnight, and when you came back, listen to the output waveform". And this is for simple DSP algorithms, nothing fancy. So yea, we have come a long way in a relatively short amount of time. I don't think 1 sample buffers are unattainable in the next few years. EDIT: Of course I am leaving out the fact that there is delay within the interfaces due to the data being sent in packets, etc, but those things will speed up as well.
post edited by SilkTone - 2009/12/01 13:10:06
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/01 13:37:00
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Put another way, a 1 sample buffer would be the same amount of delay as putting your ear 0.3" away from the speaker. +1 Round-trip latency is where the benefit of smaller buffer sizes would be most obvious... (Playing/monitoring in realtime thru software EFX/processing) Under the best of circumstances, we're currently at 5ms total roundtrip latency at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k That's not terrible... but cut that amount in half and software based input-monitoring is a whole lot more attractive. Cut it down to 1/4... and it nearly negates the need for hardware based input monitoring (assuming the machine could keep up with the load). The speed to do the later is not that far off... As has been mentioned, a well configured i7 based DAW can currently run substantial loads at a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.
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DRW
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/01 18:38:52
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Hey Hellogoodbye.
Glad to hear that you are in 64bit Heaven. Is it true that you have RealStrat and RealGuitar running in 64bit? What bridge did you use? Do you or anyone else know if there's any success in running IKmultimedia Ampeg SRX, Jimmy Hendrix, or The Fender Amp plugins in 64bit?
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hellogoodbye
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/02 08:28:18
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I didn't have to do anything to get RealStrat and RealGuitar running, so I guess they are working with BitBridge. The only plugin that needed intervention was EZDrummer (using jBridge now for that one).
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
Check out Soundclick
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holderofthehorns
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/02 08:56:31
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Put another way, a 1 sample buffer would be the same amount of delay as putting your ear 0.3" away from the speaker. Yes, and 32 samples would be like putting your ear about 10 inches away from the speaker. Your near field monitors are farther away than that. (Mine are.)
Eric Anderson HolderOfTheHorns - It's a Viking thing.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/02 08:59:14
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DRW
Hey Hellogoodbye.
Glad to hear that you are in 64bit Heaven. Is it true that you have RealStrat and RealGuitar running in 64bit? What bridge did you use? Do you or anyone else know if there's any success in running IKmultimedia Ampeg SRX, Jimmy Hendrix, or The Fender Amp plugins in 64bit?
I have vISTA 64 but I have a similar experience to Hellogoodbye. Realstrat is running fine under bitbridge, as is the Amplitude Duo version that was bundled with it. So I expect the full Amplitude products would also work.
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2009/12/02 09:00:38
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mosspa
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Re:Sonar 8.5 Windows 7 and i7 920... a match made in heaven!!!
2009/12/06 15:49:40
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In practical psychoacoustics theory 10ms is about the threshold for perceiving latency. I've worked with drummers that insist they can hear less than 10ms, then again, they are drummers . However, 5ms round-trip latency is well beyond any psychoacoustic modeling of what you might possibly hear (with all of the variance accounted for). So, any reduction beyond 5ms is just specsmanship. Speaking of shortened latency... What ever happened to WaveRT? John
post edited by mosspa - 2009/12/06 15:56:37
John AsRock Taichi 399, AMD Threadripper 1950x O.C. 4.0GHz. 64GB DDR4-3200, Win 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 18i 20/Scarlet Octo Pre. Frontier Design Apache ADAT routing, MOTU MTP MIDI Routing
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