JBL MSC1 (room mode correction module) review

I purchased the JBL MSC1 this week and spent some time getting to know the unit and would like to post experience here. First off, a little background on my control room. It's in a bedroom of my house and is roughly 15' X 15'. It has an angled ceiling which starts at 8' and ends just above 11' on the other side. I have my speakers positioned against the wall under the low end of the ceiling. This is what is recommended with my type of room. I've treated the room with several traps and diffusers and the sound was pretty good but some peaks and nulls still remained. The bass has not been as smooth as I wanted to be.
 
So I've been in the market for some sort RMC product to use. The IK RMC plug in looked interesting but I didn't like the fact it was a VST that had to be run in a DAW meaning I could not easily play external audio devices like my CD player or iPod through it. Also, sine it cost $400.00 I would have rather applied that money to a new set of JBL monitors which comes with the RMC built in. However, that would mean spending at least $1500.00 for LSR4328 monitors. I currently have a pair of Mackie HR824s and I really didn't feel the need to get away from them. So I've been sitting patiently waiting for another option to come along. That option finally did in the form of the JBL MSC1. It's been out a short while but I didn't know about it until a Sweetwater holiday ad arrived in my mailbox. Unfortunately for them they did not have it in stock so I purchased it from SameDayMusic.com. The MSC1 uses the same RMC system that is built into their LR4300 series of monitors so I can get what I wanted but with my Mackie HR824s at a fraction of the cost ($300).
 
So setup was fairly easy. Hardware hookups were straight forward. I come out of my RME HDSP9652 SPDIF, to my Benchmark DAC-1, out to the JBL MSC1 and finally to my Mackie HR824s. The jacks on the MSC1 seem a little sensitive when I tap the connection. This may be the cables and connectors I'm using. I'm going to invest in some higher quality cables to see if that takes care of it.
 
Software installation was a little clunky but went ok. I installed the software, connected the MSC1 to my USB hub and everything work right from the start.
 
So it was time to run some measurements. The software takes you through each step via a flash video. The steps shown are not always clear and tend to repeat themselves leaving one to think they might have missed something in a previous step. The example setup in the video was quite a bit different from mine so at times I was a little confused on what I was doing. Also, I had a few exception errors that sometimes caused the software to crash. I did locate a newer version of the software on the JBL site and after installing that everything is more stable. The setup process for taking measurements was tedious the first time I ran through it but once I got the hang of what I was doing it got a lot easier. Initially I had to triple check each step to make sure I doing things correctly.
 
The test runs a low frequency tone and sweeps in each speaker, takes measurements and then applies filters to where the resonances are. In my case, it found the two most problematic frequencies at 40Hz and 70Hz in my room and smoothed them out nicely. It also found a few in the lower midrange and applied filters there as well.
 
Comparing the sound with the RMC on and off there is a noticeable difference in the sound. With the RMC engaged a thickness or muddiness in the low middle goes away, the high end sound clearer and the stereo image seems wider. The overall sound is smoother and more detailed. The smeared, squishy low end from 70Hz down has tightened up a decent amount as well. I had a bad bump around 70-80Hz in the room and now that has been smoothed out pretty good. I could probably smooth out that zone a little more if I switch the low cut filter on the Mackie HR824 to 47Hz.  For now I will leave it at normal which is 37Hz.
 
So far I’m really pleased with the performance of the MSC1. I still need to take several more measurements to make sure the results are consistent but I will definitely keep the unit. The final test will be to see how my mixes come out with the MSC1 in place now.
 
I highly recommend the MSC1 for anyone that treated their room and is looking for that last finishing touch on their control room sound. If you don’t have a treated room the MSC1 may still be of value but not as effective. The best part is it’s a piece of hardware you can run any external audio device through which is so much better than VST based RMC that must be run from a DAW.
 
Eric

Thanks for that review, Eric.

My question would be - how does this new room correction settings "translate" to other speakers.

Meaning - if you do a mix with this correction installed and then listen on other speakers (car, desktop, etc, etc), do you feel the 'corrections' were good/right/work?


Oh, and btw, it's SAMEDAYMUSIC.COM not saydaymusic.com.

Hi Billy,

Regarding how mixes are translating I'm beginning that stage now. I've worked on two mixes today and will see how they work at my gig tonight. I will say the mixes I worked with today seemed thin to me. This was expected considering what the MSC1 is doing. The question is, is this an accurate reprsentation of what is going on with my mixes? I feel so because when I compare my mixes to my favorite CD I tend to feel my mixes are a bit thinner and smaller sounding. I'm hoping thats been a result of the room I'm mixing in and I will start mixing better now.  It's going to be a few weeks before I really get a feel for how it's impacting my work. I will follow up on this thread once I have more results to go over.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the typo. It's fixed now. :)

Hansenhaus


Hi Billy,

Regarding how mixes are translating I'm beginning that stage now. I've worked on two mixes today and will see how they work at my gig tonight. I will say the mixes I worked with today seemed thin to me. This was expected considering what the MSC1 is doing. The question is, is this an accurate reprsentation of what is going on with my mixes? I feel so because when I compare my mixes to my favorite CD I tend to feel my mixes are a bit thinner and smaller sounding. I'm hoping thats been a result of the room I'm mixing in and I will start mixing better now.  It's going to be a few weeks before I really get a feel for how it's impacting my work. I will follow up on this thread once I have more results to go over.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the typo. It's fixed now. :)

Eric,  I've recently made changes to my own monitoring setup (don't let anyone tell you it doesn't matter, as we know it DOES).  Even with the changes (my main monitors are now the Yamaha HS50Ms and a sub which I toggle in and out as needed to check), I notice I still have to do some "mental translating" to get things sounding right on a variety of speakers.

I actually use a set of desktop speakers that come with their own sub (Logitechs) and mult (ie, combine) my mains with those to get the "upper low/mid range" balance better in my particular environment.   This is unorthodox, but sometimes things work out regardless.

I think a lot of the room correction products are more hype than real, but some are good I'm sure.   The old fashioned way of using noise generators and SPL meters is probably the cheapest (and non-hyped) approach still.   But I haven't really tried any of the so-called modern plugins/devices for this yet.

I have a strange setup because my right side has no wall behind it (only to its left) and my left side has a wall right behind it.  Not exactly the best environment lol.  Yet, through judicious use of placement, padding and some EQ I think I finally have a "Trustable" monitoring approach (though I am still tweaking a bit).

As you point out - often there are some frequency areas that are problematic in any environment.  I think when one can isolate and correct/compensate for those then one can get better multi-monitor translation better.

To me, if my mix sounds good on a pair of lousy/boxy desktop speakers (allowing for the obvious differences so to speak - hence translation) then I feel more confident.

I don't expect desktop hyped/boxy/and or boomy speakers to sound the same as good monitors, but I do expect (at least to try to get to) a mix to translate evenly.   When that happens, I feel better about the "mains".

So again - I'd be interested to hear back how this new device you got plays out in this regard.

Thanks again for the info, Eric.

Hansenhaus


... Also, since it cost $400.00 I would have rather applied that money to a new set of JBL monitors which comes with the RMC built in. However, that would mean spending at least $1500.00 for LSR4328 monitors...
Eric

Do you happen to know for sure that the RMC system built into the LSR4328's is the same (like...exactly the same) as the MSC1?
 
The reason I ask is that I have the 4328's, and the room correction routine seemed to only detect (and correct) the single most egregious node.  (I can't believe that my tiny, parallel walled box of a bedroom studio has only one problem area.)

 

Dan,
 
I don't know if it's exactly the same but it sure looks similar.
 
I can tell you from my brief experience my first test only found two nodes to correct. A second test found 9 (5 on one side and 4 in the other) and a third test found 7 (3 on one side and 4 on the other). The nodes are usually the same on both sides. It's worth mentioning my second test was marred by a 60Hz hum in the speakers and I was also standing too close to the mic during the test. I missed the the part where it says to stand against the back wall during the first two tests. Also those two tests were done in the middle of the night at low volumes because I did not want to wake up the family. My third test was done at a better volume and I feel it was the most accurate test. I will do several more to see how they avereage out.
 
How many times did you run the test and at what volumes?
 
I worked on two mixes today and they translated very nicely in my and at a gig. With the reduction in the mid range the high end is more clear and my old mixes seem rather bright with the RMC turned on. This is consistent with how these old mixes were translating in my car on my gig system (Bose L2).
 
Eric
 
 
 
 

I think a lot of the room correction products are more hype than real, but some are good I'm sure.   The old fashioned way of using noise generators and SPL meters is probably the cheapest (and non-hyped) approach still.   But I haven't really tried any of the so-called modern plugins/devices for this yet. 

Billy,
 
These products work best in rooms that already treated well so yes in some the hype is a bit over the top. The modern devices do pretty much the same thing the old fashioned way was done. They generate tones and sweeps and apply filters where the peaks are. It's just a lot more automated now and more accessible to the average Joe now. 
 
I approach the use of the MSC1 with caution and I it will be some time before I know if it's hurting or improving my mixes. So far the two mixes I worked on yesterday came out very nice. With the RMC engaged I could hear why my mixes have been coming out like they have. A bit bright and thin. The mid range build up in my mix position was making the mixes sound thicker than they actually were and I was hesitant to apply that frequency which was needed at times. Also with a clearer tighter bass response I can hear and judge the level of a kick drum easier now. So far it's been rather encouraging but only time will tell.
 
Eric
 
 
 
  

Hansenhaus


Dan,
 
I don't know if it's exactly the same but it sure looks similar.
 
I can tell you from my brief experience my first test only found two nodes to correct. A second test found 9 (5 on one side and 4 in the other) and a third test found 7 (3 on one side and 4 on the other). The nodes are usually the same on both sides. It's worth mentioning my second test was marred by a 60Hz hum in the speakers and I was also standing too close to the mic during the test. I missed the the part where it says to stand against the back wall during the first two tests. Also those two tests were done in the middle of the night at low volumes because I did not want to wake up the family. My third test was done at a better volume and I feel it was the most accurate test. I will do several more to see how they avereage out.
 
How many times did you run the test and at what volumes?
 
Eric
 
 

Ill try running it a few more times.  When you run the routine built into the monitors, the test volume is fixed.  Note too that I have a completely untreated room, so it may be that it gives you a more detailed curve if the room is already in pretty fair shape.  As it is, my room is likely to be completely off in OZ.

Just bought this unit today....not so much for the corrective aspects I needed a way to mute my monitors :-)...Not sure I'll even use the correction software.

Have you tried the headphone amp ? How does it sound ? Also, is there a pop in the headphones the first time you plug them in ?

ohhey


Have you tried the headphone amp ? How does it sound ? Also, is there a pop in the headphones the first time you plug them in ?

I have tried the headphone amp....sounds good. Although I think I need a bit more using it. It does seem to sound a touch different than my M-Audio ProFire 610 audio interface headphone output...how and what the difference is...I don't know LOL.


No pop when plugging in for the first time.  

How much latency does that system add to playback?

It seems like the best one can hope for is something down near 3 millisecond.

Any ideas?

Does the bypass swap out a non delayed analog through? Or does everything go through the A/D/A?

In reference to Billy's question; if you use the A/B speaker selector built in to that device are there two different RMC responses that load respectively or does the system share one RMC prescription?

best regards,
mike

mike_mccue


How much latency does that system add to playback?

It seems like the best one can hope for is something down near 3 millisecond.

Any ideas?

Does the bypass swap out a non delayed analog through? Or does everything go through the A/D/A?

In reference to Billy's question; if you use the A/B speaker selector built in to that device are there two different RMC responses that load respectively or does the system share one RMC prescription?

best regards,
mike

As far as latency goes I believe it's exactly 3 milliseconds....at least that's what the manual says. As far as bypassing the RMC settings according to the RMC button, I cannot speak on this because I currently don't use the unit with the RMC software. I would hope that it would go straight through without the A/D/A but like I said...I don't know. I do plan on running RMC eventually then perhaps I can share my thoughts. One thing that really shocked me about this unit is the build quality...it's EXTREMELY solid and well built, which kind of shocked me. From photos I was expecting the large gain knob and the unit housing to feel cheap and plastic-y but this isn't the case at all.  Sorry I couldn't be of more help. 

Thanks for sharing the info.

best regards,
mike

mike_mccue


Thanks for sharing the info.

best regards,
mike

No Problem,...I love the your Chord Gadget chart...getting ready to look it over concerning some Amin chord progression.