Sonar + PerfectSpace latency?

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Wood67
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2010/03/03 15:11:30 (permalink)

Sonar + PerfectSpace latency?

I've noticed in the last few days when I've been testing the PerfectSpace reverb, that after a few minutes use it suddenly introduces a large amount of MIDI latency when I return to playing the keyboard.  I'm running ASIO mode and it's always been extremely low.  However, as soon as I insert PS and select/modify any presets, whenever I next use the midi controller there's a bunch of latency.  The only way to fix this is either to toggle the audio drivers, or more reliably, restart Sonar.

Anyone else seeing this?

Wood

Studio One 3 Pro, (Sonar Platinum), Intel i7, Win10 Pro, 32Gb ram, RME Babyface Pro, Behringer X-Touch, Presonus Faderport, Akai MPK49, Arturia KeyLab25, KRK Rokit 5 monitors, and other sonic surprises.
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    John
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    Re:Sonar + PerfectSpace latency? 2010/03/03 15:37:01 (permalink)
    Convolutions are high latency because they require a lot of math processing. They have large buffers too. Perfect Space has a options screen that will let you lower the buffers but it could cause other problems. Its not recommended to use it while tracking.

    Best
    John
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    bitflipper
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    Re:Sonar + PerfectSpace latency? 2010/03/03 18:18:20 (permalink)
    John is correct. Convolution effects are by nature big-buffer beasts and will always introduce noticeable latency.

    There are 3 strategies to deal with this:

    1. Hold off adding reverb until you're done tracking and ready to mix.

    2. Use an algorithmic reverb while tracking, optionally replacing it with a convolution prior to mixing. The Sonitus reverb works well for this.

    3. Make Perfect Space's buffer smaller, trading off some quality for lower latency. On the PS GUI, look near the lower-right corner above the Pan control - the current latency setting (in samples) will be shown there. If you're at 44.1KHz, multiply that number by 0.0227 to calculate the latency (in milliseconds). At the default of 4096 samples, that's a 92ms delay. Reduce it to 256 samples and you'll reduce latency to 5.8ms.

    Click on the Info button at the top of the UI, then click the "set latency" button and choose a buffer size from the dropdown list. You'll then have to restart SONAR.

    Important note: the PS latency setting is GLOBAL. Set it to 64 and every project that uses PS will have their buffers at 64, too. So don't forget to put it back to a higher value when you're ready to start mixing.

    ADDENDUM:
    So I looked in the PS documentation to see what it recommends. Get this: it recommends 16384 or 32768 "for best efficiency". Wow. Obviously, this plugin was never intended to be a real-time effect. Not only that, they also recommend that your interface's buffers be set to 4 times that size! I don't know anyone who does that. My own interface doesn't allow > 2048.
    post edited by bitflipper - 2010/03/03 18:37:05


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    #3
    Wood67
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    Re:Sonar + PerfectSpace latency? 2010/03/03 18:54:27 (permalink)
    Thanks guys, useful info.  Looks like PS features on mixing only then.  Initially I wasn't too impressed with it but that's changing since I downloaded the 480L, PCM70 and SPX990 reverbs for it.  Very nice indeed.  I'm going to make a 480 out of a cereal box painted white and put an old red led matrix on the top so it looks authentic too!

    Wood

    Studio One 3 Pro, (Sonar Platinum), Intel i7, Win10 Pro, 32Gb ram, RME Babyface Pro, Behringer X-Touch, Presonus Faderport, Akai MPK49, Arturia KeyLab25, KRK Rokit 5 monitors, and other sonic surprises.
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    John T
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    Re:Sonar + PerfectSpace latency? 2010/03/03 19:02:22 (permalink)
    PerfectSpace is great, but as the others have said, it's very much a mixer's tool. Myelf, I tend not to use effects at all when tracking, unless someone really needs it to get their performance right (most commonly vocalists).
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    bitflipper
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    Re:Sonar + PerfectSpace latency? 2010/03/03 21:09:43 (permalink)
    I'm going to make a 480 out of a cereal box painted white and put an old red led matrix on the top so it looks authentic too!

    Great idea! Perhaps it will be something you can sell via mail-order.

    I had an idea once to sell fake rack units. Put close-but-not-identical names on them, e.g. "Lezzicon PCM96",  "Uri N1176".

    The problem with that idea is that it would cost $100 just to build a silkscreened faceplate with lights on it. But using a cereal box would greatly reduce the cost of manufacture! And beat Behringer to the punch, since they'd probably clone my fake and have them made out of rice paper in Shanghai.


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    papa2005
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    Re:Sonar + PerfectSpace latency? 2010/03/03 21:32:32 (permalink)
    Some company used to make fake rack fillers...Complete with knobs and switches and lamps...They had a whole line of the (5 or 6 or more)...I'm not sure if they're still around...IIRC each one was about $70...I actually considered getting a couple to fill out my rack but would up filling it out with the real stuff...*LOL*
    EDIT: Here ya go! FUNK LOGIC
    post edited by papa2005 - 2010/03/03 21:34:04

    Regards,
    Papa

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