Envelope Bug: see if you can duplicate it

I first noticed this problem at 8.0. It was reported to CW but they were unable to reproduce the symptom and closed the support ticket. However, I checked again in 8.1, 8.2, 8.3 and and it was still there.

I'd forgotten about it until today, when another thread brought it back to mind. Sure enough, the bug is still there in 8.5.3. So I thought I'd resurrect it, see if anyone else can duplicate it, and if so prod CW into revisiting envelope issues.

My test project is very simple. One audio track and a master bus. It doesn't matter what's on the audio track; I imported a 2-second 1KHz sinewave.

On the master bus, put in two or three effects. It does not seem to matter which specific effects you use (just not any of the Sonitus effects). In my test I used Channel Tools, Kjaerhus Classic Chorus and Boost11.



I then added some automation. The green line automates Boost11's "Boost" control. The pink line automates Channel Tools' "Width Left" control. The faint gray line automates the Classic Chorus' "Mix" control. It doesn't matter which controls are automated - anything that shows a visible response to an automation envelope will do.

Note that when the Now marker passes the green node, Boost11 responds as expected:



So far, everything is working as expected. Now we introduce the bug by inserting an instance of the Sonitus Delay at the top of the effects chain. Nothing else has been changed.



Now note that when the Now marker plays past the green node, Boost11's "Boost" parameter does not change. The automation has been ignored.



Other observations:
- The first plugin after the Sonitus Delay is unaffected and its automation still works
- The second and subsequent plugins' automation is disabled
- This effect can be seen with several Sonitus effects. The Delay, Compressor and Gate all do it, but the Equalizer, Modulator, Reverb and Multiband do not.

Interesting find Dave.
 
FWIW, I've stopped using most of the Sonitus plugins (although I do use the inline EQ still from time to time, or for some 'simple' EQ'ing only, like HPF or LPF stuff).
 
I've noticed weirdness for a long time with the Sonitus plugins.   I can easily get an "off-center" thing happening when using their Multiband compressor.   I can feed a kick drum to a bus which then goes to a submix bus containing the multiband -- and although the kick will read dead center on its track and bus, the submix bus with the multiband reads a little off-center (usually right heavy).   This is entirely reproducible for me.
 
I'll see if I get some time to try your bug find this evening.
 
But I do suggest moving away from the Sonitus plugins.  They aren't really updated lately, and I just find other more modern plugins do a better job these days. 
 
 

Yes Dave - totally repeatable here.

- The first plugin after the Sonitus Delay is unaffected and its automation still works
- The second and subsequent plugins' automation is disabled

Bug City.

Thanks for verifying that, guys. I guess I'll re-open that bug report.

CWBRN-2653

have you tried the PSP42 delay?

I have not. Though the reviews have been uniformly glowing, and all the PSP stuff is top-notch. I'm sure it's good.

But I just cannot bring myself to pay $150 for a delay, no matter how good. Maybe that's narrow-minded, but...but it's a Delay.

What's frustrating is the Sonitus Delay I already have has almost every feature I want in a delay. If somebody at CW would just take it under their wing a little fix here and there is all it needs.

bitflipper


Received from CW:

Thank-you for submitting your problem report, you are receiving this message because the status of your report has been changed to SUBMITTED TO DEVELOPMENT.  With the following notes:

Thank you for your report. We have logged this issue with our development team and hope to address it in a future release.

Urgh. Just noticed the legalese at the bottom:

This correspondence is considered confidential and any reproduction for the purpose of public disclosure is forbidden without written permission by the author signed above.

Yikes, am I going to get sued now? I wonder how one goes about getting written permission from "Cakewalk Problem Tracker". The email is signed thus:

This is an automated message do not reply to this e-mail address.

Best Regards,
Cakewalk Problem Tracker

Well if they wanna sue you for this, they'll sure lose my support and business
 

couple thoughts...
Can't you just EDIT your post to satisfy Calkwalk's wishes?  Seems like an easy solution and a way to respect their wishes.
 
and... although I don't have the most current version of Sonar...still on 7.02PE, I can get the track layers and envelopes doing all kinds of goofy stuff from disappearing to being "greyed out" to representing different values. 
 
This example you bring up... I'm getting a kick out of, since although apparently common procedures nowadays, it all seems like such an obscure situtation.
 
Perhaps I'm thinking of the real important "problems" like the breaks on the Ampex are "touchy" and you'll streach your tape if not careful... or the cross talk on a output select button gets silly on those old consoles...etc.
 
Anyrate... Cakewalk needs people like you Bit...and thanks for bringing forth your detailed example.

Same results using Sonar 8.3.0.367 here. I really hope that when this is fixed the patch or fixed plug-in (I see that there are some other issues with the sonitus delay) is made available to Sonar 8.0 users as well.

That said, good catch Bit!

Well, now that the other thread has identified a certain version of Sonitus Delay as (probably) buggy, who knows how many unresolved issues it touches that can finally be put to bed?  When I think of just the automation-related complaints alone...

Hopefully, CW addresses this quickly with a small patch. 

No update to the problem report. It just says "Thank you for your report. We have logged this issue with our development team and hope to address it in a future release." I doubt they will update the report even after it's been fixed. Perhaps Noel will mention it in his next "Fine Print" thread for version 9.

No change in the problem report notes. "Sent to engineering" is probably the same as "resolved" from the problem-reporting system's perspective. It no doubt sits in some non-public queue within the Engineering department, or might even have been already addressed. We won't know until version 9 is released this fall.

I've gone through a bunch of delays trying to find something that does everything the Sonitus Delay does, and as conveniently as the Sonitus does it, but have not found anything that was clearly superior in features and usability.

There was one free plugin (IxoxDelay), that had all the right features. I thought it might be the one. Unfortunately, it also crashed SONAR.

The Voxengo Tempo Delay might be one for you to check out. Voxengo products have always been stable and reliable for me. The UI is not as well laid out as the Sonitus, and it lacks separate LP and HP filters. But it adds tremolo, which is a plus for guitar tracks. And it's a freebie, which puts it squarely within my price range. I still prefer the Sonitus for usability, though.