Piano Roll View Question. I am going insane, can you explain this behavior?

Look at picture #1:



track 111 has CC#1 Automation. I want the two clips on the upper right bounced into one because they are part of the same phrase. So I select them and press "B" to combine them, and VOILA!


NOOO! Now that the clips on the upper right are combined, CC #1 Channel 1 has now been split out to CC #1 Channel 2, so it now has its own lane. I DO NOT WANT THIS BEHAVIOR! The problem caused here occurs after weeks of editing, when I eventually have a nervous breakdown because the Piano Roll View has 85 lanes in it. I want to keep the number of CC Lanes in the Piano Roll View down to these 5.

What can I do? I am somewhat OCD with my session, and I want to keep it tidy to keep it under control. However, if this happens every time I bounce MIDI clips together, I just can't do it.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer.

-Alex

Hey Susan,

If I'm reading your post correctly, you're saying that the notes/data originated on channel 2. That is incorrect. Before I COMBINED clips, everything was on Channel 1, the track header also set that way. Once I bounce the clips together, they spontaneously move all data (notes and CC info) to a different channel.

As a sidenote- I haven't been ablke to figure out how to change data in the event list in "one fell swoop". I've been changing every event one at a time, ack! How can I select groups of data to change the channel back to 1?

Thanks for the response!

-Alex

Amdrecording - This thread is a development from the thread awhile back where I thought your problems with PRV were under control.  Sorry to see you're still having problems.

There's something fundamentally skewed in the way you're working.  I'm trying to figure it out from what you've posted here, but it's difficult because this is so alien to me, what you've described and what you're showing in your screen shots.

I've used Cakewalk for a number of years now, and spend a large part of my time in the PRV.  I've never encountered these problems, but I'm rather sure it's because my work flow is more straight-forward.

Trying to sift through what you've posted - why are you trying to "bounce" those two clips into one "because they are part of the same phrase"--?  In your first screen shot, the data is easy to work with because, as you're pointing out, it's in one lane.  Why aren't you keeping it like that?  It won't make any difference in the playback to change the way it is right there.  Those clips are on the same track, they're pointing to the same synth, and as Susan is pointing out, it's only the MIDI channel setting in the track header which is ultimately important.

A project's tracks can be made up of hundreds, thousands of clips.  They don't need to be put together, they're fine remaining as clips.  If you really want to see solid clips in your tracks, select however many you want in a track and bounce to clips--they'll combine as one solid one.  Sometimes that's helpful, it's tidier, but it doesn't effect playback or recording one iota.

If you want to keep your controller panes in PRV down to 5 - then stop doing this totally unnecessary step of trying to combine what doesn't need to be combined.

Randy B.

When I select several items in the event list

Do this in the Piano Roll View, not the Event List.

-Susan

Edit: BTW, I've never had SONAR automatically change MIDI Channels with a Bounce. Are you saying the Note Properties and Track Channels say Ch 1 before, but the notes/CCs after bouncing are on Ch 2? What if you just use drag or cut/paste?

I think the tool bar only pertains to notes and not CC events.

I think that's right. You will need to use Process > Interpolate to change the channel of controllers as well as notes.

Now that the clips on the upper right are combined, CC #1 Channel 1 has now been split out to CC #1 Channel 2

Incidentally, I couldn't replicate this error, but it wouldn't be the first time SONAR did something strange in a specific project. I wasn't surprised to see it write a second lane in the controllers pane as I've seen SONAR do some strange things with controller lanes, but it is pretty bizarre that it rewrote the events to a different channel. 


Your original post suggests this is consistently repeatable behavior. Is that right? If you can reproduce it in a new project, you should file a problem report with Cakewalk.


http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/ProblemReporter

I think I have a lock on the issue now. I think much of it is due to my process of working, although Sonar could arguably allow the user the option to disable this feature:

When a user BOUNCES a clip in the TRACK VIEW, all of the data in that clip reverts to the corresponding channel number in the track header. so when I'm running a Kontakt instrument on Channel 9, every time I BOUNCE a clip together from that track, ALL the data will automatically switch over to Channel 9, notes and CC data.

This might not be a problem for some, but it certainly is for me! It would be great if there was an option somewhere to disable this behavior.

Thanks to bower, Susan, lorney and brundle for all of your help! I have learned many cool new functions in Sonar because of this problem. Next step will be to try out the Interpolate feature... I'm excited about it...

-Alex

"...When a user BOUNCES a clip in the TRACK VIEW, all of the data in that clip reverts to the corresponding channel number in the track header..."

Well, no that doesn't happen actually.  The track header sends the track's data through the MIDI Channel you need for controlling a specific instrument.  But the data itself in the track retains the original Channel information.

Randy B.

Hi, Alex - Let me amend my post which you quoted - I intended to be explaining what Should happen, according to my experience.  I understand your statement is accurately describing what happens with you.

Like I said in PMs to you where I was trying to help, I spent some time this morning doing experiments.  They only confirmed what I already knew from working so much in the PRV.--I cannot reproduce your problem.  Maybe somebody else can, and maybe there's more to what you're saying than I'm grasping--But in my experience, MIDI data never changes after doing a "bounce to clips."

That's why the only conclusion I can come to is that something is wrong with your Sonar installation.  Maybe there's something in your work flow that's causing this, but I can't detect what it would be.

Trying to help--Sorry I haven't been able to!

Randy B.

rbowser


Hi, Alex - Let me amend my post which you quoted - I intended to be explaining what Should happen, according to my experience.  I understand your statement is accurately describing what happens with you.

Like I said in PMs to you where I was trying to help, I spent some time this morning doing experiments.  They only confirmed what I already knew from working so much in the PRV.--I cannot reproduce your problem.  Maybe somebody else can, and maybe there's more to what you're saying than I'm grasping--But in my experience, MIDI data never changes after doing a "bounce to clips."

That's why the only conclusion I can come to is that something is wrong with your Sonar installation.  Maybe there's something in your work flow that's causing this, but I can't detect what it would be.

Trying to help--Sorry I haven't been able to!

Randy B.

I was able to replicate similar effect quite easily.  To see what is happening expand the far left section of PRV view(where the piano keys are) to see all the channel info.  If the OP copied data from track 1 to existing track 2 containing data and automation and then bounced track 2 to clip it will show CC info lanes for both track 1 and 2 with the data not combined into a single lane even though it  is all  the same controller info.   It is retaining the parent info on separate lane.

"...If the OP copied data from track 1 to existing track 2 containing data and automation and then bounced track 2 to clip it will show CC info lanes for both track 1 and 2 with the data not combined into a single lane even though it  is all  the same controller info.   It is retaining the parent info on separate lane..."

Interesting experiment lorneyb2.  But that isn't at all what I understand Alex to be saying.  He's talking about data he's recorded on a single track, in bits and pieces, and now he simply wants to connect them all via bounce to clip.  He's saying the extra MIDI channel magically appears.  He hasn't talked about copying data from one track to another--as far as I can tell--hence my perplexity.

A "new feature" in 8.5?  Maybe that's it, brundle.  I'm on 8.3.1, so how things work in my program could be totally different.

Randy B.