Home studio v Music Creator - advice please.

It is possible to do what you say with Music Creator 5...... however, without musical skills (playing an instrument) it will be more difficult since MC5 is designed to be a recording studio requiring some sort of input.

I think what you might be looking for is a program that CAN create music for you with relative ease and just a small understanding of music.  I suggest Band In A Box...... it is sweet in that, it creates songs with complete instrumentation. You select a few parameters..... tempo, key, style, and then simply input chords to a grid..... and with a bit of editing,,,,, waaa laaaa... you have a song.

Here>>>>  www.pgmusic.com  BiaB is not a cheap program, but it sure is cheaper than spending the money on lessons....BTW: I'd still spend the time & money to learn to play something...guitar or keys...........  I use it in addition to my own playing to create tracks for songs.

Check out some of my tunes..... most of the recent ones have some tracks in them created in BiaB.


I think that's what you're looking for.... I use BOTH BB & MC to do what I do.

Note: I haven't looked in a while...see if they still have a free demo available

Thanks Lads,
 
I'll have a look at that.  
 
I do have a cheap Yamaha keyboard [with usb] on which I can pick out 4/6 chords and half adozen melody notes [not necessarily at the same time] but I'm having trouble installing it onto pc.  I have read, in Scott Garrigus, that in home studio it is possible to literally 'play in' single notes or chords
and construct songs that way as the blending [should that be mixing?] and 'tweaking' can be in the project. {reading a book is not necessarily the same as understanding - well not in my case!}
 
Regards,
 
Vincent

MC and the other sonar/cakewalk products are designed to be recording systems.... where you provide ALL the input. You can multi track the drum, bass, keys, and so on..... but cake will not do the creative part for you.....

BiaB on the other hand will create entire songs from some basic non-musical instructions that you give it.

Some real magic happens when you use BiaB and MC together with some personal input.....

You can put MIDI data in a track with your mouse, no MIDI keyboard needed. Step recording allows you to set which duration note you want, you click (or play a MIDI keyboard) the note and the program moves the prescribed amount ready to receive the next note.
With your Yamaha, if you know how to make a major chord and a minor chord, you pretty much know how to make all chords that most songwriters will use. Unless it's jazz.
 
You can also form a partnership/friendship with someone who plays well, and collaborate on some songs. You sing the melodies; they create the arrangement.

your thread will always be in the music creator forum. there is a little icon that appears in threads that you have commented on...it's a little yellow thing..... click it and it takes you to the first unread post in that thread. New posts will allow the unread threads to be in BOLD for a certain amount of time to indicate at a glance the newest and freshest material.


On Band in a Box.... the entry level package is less than $200.... ($160 comes to mind) and you can upgrade from any of them to the higher ones at any time. The higher level packages have the really nice "real tracks" that make the real instrument sounds.  I use BB all the time to compose music.... in the midi mode  and styles because it is faster to play. Then I convert the style to a real tracks style.


MC5 comes with Sound Center which has 150 instrument sounds and also TTS which has a bunch of synth instruments as well. That is already in the box..... and I used them for quite some before I got my newer toys

Hello Greg,

My Keyboard is usb and I've downloaded the software from Yamaha to enable me to open it in Home Studio [it is an old HS 2002]. Using Windows XP; comptuer all usb.  

I've got Middi devices input >output showing the same: yamaha portatone-1.

In 'options' I've tried settings... yamaha - <default: General Midi and Yamaha XG but while the keyboard notes plays it does not appear as a track in either a new 'empty' project or an 'old' one with some loops already set up. 

I'm beggining to feel that I'll have to upgrade something at the very least but, my son-in-law's reasoning is that Cakewalk [or similar products] are made to be compatible with new developments while still retaining functionality.  Although the keyboard is only a cheap model it was bought for three factors two off which were: It was multi instrumental and it could be connected directly to a PC.

I've had a look at microsoft's 'songwriter' but I don't think it has the adaptabilty I will need and the forum there seems to be something of a 'lost zone' with very little input or response but I appreciate the 'nod' in its direction. 

Herb mentioned that he had successfully used MC5 but I've seen a lot of reports claiming huge problems in setting up and using this model.  Question: are these complaints from simple folk like me or were there genuine glitches that have subsequently been sorted out?

Regards,

Vincent.

First... some of the older versions might not run on a new OS like Vista or W7.... I have a very old cakewalk pro 8 that will not run on vista.....

As far as the midi keyboard..... I use a very old midi keyboard..... the midi format has not changed so any midi keyboard should work just fine.

That aside...

It sounds like the program is working on your machine. It also sounds like you are using a very old version of Cakewalk software. My recommendation is that you upgrade to the Boxed version of Music Creator 5, available at some of teh big box retailers in your area. The upgrade is well worth the $40 cost. You get some really nice sounding synths and samples in it. MC5 will run on XP, Vista, and W7.

There are 2 kinds of tracks AUDIO and MIDI..... it depends on what you are trying to record from teh keyboard..... if you are trying to record the MIDI data, you must have a midi track set up to recieve the data on the correct channel, and armed for recording.  Generally you would also have a softsynth in an AUDIO channel to play the output of the midi channel. MC will do this for you when you select INSERT SYNTH.


you mentioned upgrades.... the first upgrade I would consider would be to a better interface (sound card) since that is the heart of the system. Most computers with a minimum 1GB of memory (more is better of course) running XP or later will run the Cake family of products quite well.

What reports of problems have you heard about MC5? MC5 as well as it's forerunners (I use MC4 and MC5) all work extremely well. I can record without problems. I think the ones who have problems, and yes, we get quite a few here with problems, and are not able to solve them successfully are people who come here expecting miracles from us. We offer advice, but people are not always willing to follow the advice we give. Generally, to get MC to work well, an upgrade to a nice dedicated interface (soundcard) is the remedy. A couple of hundred bucks maximum will solve most problems and afford a pleasant and satisfying recording experience. I don't think I have ever heard anyone come in here with a computer that would not run the software.... it's usually the sound card. I don't think there's anyone here (long time users) that are still using the factory card for recording. Listen to our songs to hear the results of a dedicated card.

So.... in summation: Buy MC5 ($40), upgrade to a dedicated interface (give or take $150 or so), come and ask questions if you are not getting it to work properly, be patient and civil, and you will be successful in recording music.

Congratulations, you've just frightened the living daylight out of me!

I hope it's OK but I just printed out your responses so that I could, maybe, more easily follow them.  At home alone I began to go through the suggestions given and while focused entirely on the monitor display the keyboard behind me came ALIVE.  When I got down from the ceiling I realised it must be the 'count in' Greg mentioned.  I had another go through the instructions and found that I've actually produced some random notes in a track and the playback sound, while discordant - I'm still shaking, is fine.  

There does not seem to be any 'soft synths' in this version of HS and I have seen why you recommend the box version over the download [the missing bits].  The adverse comments regarding MC5 were either on Cakewalk Forum or on Amazon.   There is no danger of me blindly dismissing or disregarding the comments offered here as I'm simply too ignorant of the subject.  Speaking of which, would any of you recommend the Musical Instruments package or is there, in your opinon(s) enough in the MC5 software? or is that for the already accomplished musician/computer user [while typing that last phrase I 'heard' someone say, "get MC5 first and addons later."  Is this site telepathic?

Because I still don't 'know' what I'm doing I'll probably carry on with the built in soundcard for the time being but if you are really insistant that a bigger or special purpose card is a 'must have' I'll start dropping hints for my next present. [A 'hint' from me being, "You can get me..."]

I've got a bit of work to do in the house for the next week or so that must be done but I will make some time every morning to play around with what you have shown me and I'll also try to follow the chapter in Scott Garrigus's book [and when I can't I'll come back].
 
As ever, all comments, tips and advice is much appreciated.

Signing of now with my thanks and warmest regards to you all,

Vincent.

Some people think MC and the other cake DAW's are supposed to work straight out of the box.... so to speak, and they will...IF.... you have the right sound card and set them up correctly.

Many beginners expect MC to work on a factory soundcard and refuse to believe that an upgraded card is needed to really get the most out of MC.... so they putt along with all sorts of problems.... trying this, trying that, nothing works and they post some bad press when all they had to do was take our advice, spend a few bucks and get a dedicated audio interface and they would have been golden.

Hello All,

OK.  Stop.  I give in. 

I've sucumbed to advice and ordered MC5 [due approx 7 days], despair not, your contributions here have got me way beyond the 'nothing' that I was
acheiving(?) alone and you may even have infected me with a virus, [the Music Bug]. 
I actually had some fun this morning [if only I could infect my grandchildren!]. 

As I'm going to be picking your brains over MC5 you may consider the next question redundant and prefer to save your time until MC5 is set up and that would be fine with me but ....if you must........having got the sound 'images' into a track they are playing back through the keyboard while imported loops play through my computer speakers.  If I turn the keyboard off the images remain but are silent. 

If you have a simple remedy, great, if you think I'd be better off waiting fine but having been bitten I'm just a bit 'itchy'.

"You probably figured that out though."  Me? figure something out?  yeah, right, the next time will be the first!

Just a last quick comment re soundcards.  My son-in-law just arrived [while I was typing this] he informs me that he could fit one for me and may even have a spare at home.

Now it's back to work.

Regards,

Vincent.

I registered almost solely to respond to lostandconfused, who has not been getting the simple answer to his original question, which is:

YES you most definitely can compose in and record directly from MC5 with no other software, hardware, or accompaniment necessary.

My situation is/was very similar to yours: I'm not a musician, can't play anything, can't carry a note in a basket, but I can compose music entirely within a Digital Audio Workstation like Music Creator 5.

I initially started out with Magix Home Studio 10 for this kind of work before I discovered MC3, which I found easier to control. I've just been migrating to a new pc, so I decided to upgrade to MC5, which was worthwhile.

I haven't tried BIAB, but I've been tempted. However, my advice is to avoid getting bogged down with any further hardware and software issues until you tame MC5 - not a big task, but a task nonetheless.

MC5 will do everything you want, but you must develop your own workflow, and learn to control the software to make it do as you wish, just like any other device to compress air and make sounds.

Start with the piano roll editor in MC5 (View, Piano Roll), and use the mouse to lay in notes, chords, or drum beats. Use the two yellow brackets up top to restrict the player to 4 or 8 bars at a time so you have a little loop going.

It makes sense to develop at least a click track or metronome type drum beat before perhaps adding a few thumps from the bass player. Get this going, looping over 4/8 bars, and then compose your melody and rhythms as you move from one seat to the next, composing for each member of your virtual band. Most of these tracks may start out as 'scratch' or stand-in tracks until you develop something better, the drum 'click track' for example.

Ask if you want help setting up virtual instruments.

Save often with a systematic file system - think of these as 'takes' - and build your tune. When you are ready to output to a WAV or MP3:

Edit, Select All,
Edit, Bounce to Track
File, Export, Audio

Don't forget to scroll down and delete the audio track you just saved; otherwise, it will interfere with further editing and mess with your head. I mention this because it is a common error for me.

Best wishes and Good Luck!
87)

Well, I'm going against the grain here a little, but I would advise those getting started with MC5 to delay fiddling around much with the audio card, at least until you complete the entire process of composing your song, recording it,  and burning it to audio CD.
 
Play the CD on a decent audio system and judge for yourself. 
 
I get very good results from my onboard sound cards. Demo quality at the very least.  The results are clean and pure with no distortion. Fire up Triple Cheese and listen to that cello.
 
Also, lest anyone forget, there's nothing stopping a real band from maybe playing this music someday.
 
If they hear your song and say, "Gee dude, if you'd burnt that tune with a better sound card, we might be interested..." THEN you might want to think about messing around with a possible headache and a guaranteed expense.
 
But if you just want to get your tune down, maybe grab the sheet music and head for Brill, I'd wager the onboard sound card will be all you need. Yep, MC5 creates (rough) sheet music from whatever MIDI tracks you have, no matter the source - axe, 88s, mouse, and of course, you can compose directly on the staff, if you are so inclined.
 
Currently, I have MC5 running on a very modest Windows XP Pro Systemax AMD dual-core desktop with onboard sound. I also still have MC3 running on an old Athlon 64 Win XP laptop with onboard sound. MC3 came with a MIDI USB adaptor and for a while I had an old rickety USB keyboard hooked up, but the latency problems soon found the keyboard stacked behind a door somewhere. The software still runs great on the old laptop, and there are a few older VSIs that won't run under MC5, so I may still want to go back to the old set-up sometime. Also, MC3 really has A Different Personality from MC5.
 
On that note,  I'll add a few words about Audio editing as opposed to the MIDI editing we do in MC5: Audio cuts, or loops,  can be combined in external audio editors like Acid, also one of my earlier stops. Of course, MC5 has both audio and MIDI tracks, so there are a number of different ways to work with music, audio and midi files, but audio tracks are best edited elsewhere.
 
A freeware program called Audacity allows some pretty good direct audio editing, mp3 burning, equalization, various filters and whatnot that are used in post-production work.
 
All you really need are MC5 and maybe Audacity to add fades and other postproduction effects to your songs.
 
With the current set-up I have, I like to work out of a fresh boot with no other software running and all unnecessary background tasks killed by Task Mgr. In that environment, MC5 runs beautifully. I have lots of VSIs, or virtual software instruments, and as your many helpers above have already noted, Cakewalk provides a lot of built-in functionality in MC5 with a host of software instruments ready to go. Beyond that, there are a myriad of freeware software instruments and effects which are easily added to MC5's already impressive capabilities.
 
So MC5 also serves as a host for virtual software instruments. These are simply *.DLL files that reside in a special folder in the Cakewalk directory. Use View, Synth Rack to add virtual instruments which can then be dropped into a MIDI track. There it will play whatever notes you lay down in piano roll. 
 
Nothing kills my creativity like futzing around with technical issues. Some people thrive on that stuff, but I just want to sit down and write a little ditty before the idea passes and my coffee gets cold.
 
This is not about performance, but about using MC5 to write music. If you want to play and strut your stuff and show your chops, then you may have to invest the time and money in a better sound card to overcome the latency issues inherent with having an external usb instrument plugged into MC5.
 
My comments here are directed toward the OP who - as I understand him - wants to get to work composing his music without spending any more money. MC5 can do that, so the straightest line to his objective is for Vincent to focus on learning to use MC5.
 
I speak from experience. I've already been down many of these sideroads and it's largely a waste of time, especially for someone who may not have time to burn.
 
Thanks to all the contributors here. If I come across like an expert with MC5, I hasten to add that I'm not. There's a lot about the software I don't know or understand, but again I emphasize that mastering a few relatively simple skills in MC5 can pay enormous dividends. This is exceptional software, a hidden gem, a true masterpiece for $50 that can put tremendous power in the hands of those with a little dedication.
 

Vince.... this response is typical... you will get really good advice and from lots of people, all who are thinking about the way THEY would go about solving the issue you brought up.

Splinx ..... on the issue of the sound card. Even the factory card will give you a top quality rendition of the music.... it is after all digital at 44.1/16 which is CD quality. So as long as the synth, patch or sample you use is top quality (as opposed to a general midi voicing) you will get a quality recording.

That is NOT the big problem with the factory cards. The problem is the latency they have, and the processing power that the factory cards lack. It is difficult to get acceptably low levels of latency even running one synth on many of the cards...like Realtec, and sound blaster. 

I started with MC4 and I also bought a new laptop as well as a Saffire firewire interface....all at the same time, because I knew the factory Dell card was not suitable for recording in real time.

So... getting a capable sound card is very important. Especially if you are working with synths inside the box in real time. Without it, recording is frustrating with the latency, the clicks, the pops, the drop outs, and all the other irritations people experience on the factory cards.

Having said all that... yes it is possible to work on small AUDIO projects with minimal problems using factory cards. Quite a few are working like that.....however,  Pop in a soft synth, add too many tracks, or use too many FX and the problems show up pretty quick.

All that stuff is a distraction and an unnecessary expense and hassle for someone who just wants to get their tune(s) written. 

Some of us are on very limited budgets, and $100 is a lot of money

those are two completely different points.

I completely agree with you that if you cannot afford a better soundcard then you shouldn't spend money on it and you can make music with your onboard soundcard. 

latency, however, is a problem that cannot usually be overcome when using softsynths or FX real-time using your onboard soundcard.

if you can get by with your onboard soundcard and especially if you can't afford better then I am 100% behind trying to help people use what they have.

if you can't work with MC because of latency problems and can't resolve it using your onboard soundcard then you have to upgrade in order to overcome that limitation.

I agree. The program will play whatever you put into it.
But your computer/sound card combo may not be able to reproduce it. That's when you may need to consider a more efficient audio interface.
Try your son's Sound Blaster, Vincent, see if it works better. I used a SB Extigy for several years. Plus, most SBs have their own embedded synthesizer for even more sound options.