Helpful ReplyAutosnap - what am I doing wrong ?

Author
koalaboy
New Member
  • Total Posts : 31
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/09/17 07:40:19
  • Status: offline
2010/07/22 04:00:39 (permalink)

Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ?

So I've got a track that I'm mixing for a friend - vocal, bass and acoustic - and the timing is really really sloppy.

I can't get the parts re-recorded, so I'll just tidy up the timing with Autosnap - makes sense and having watched the video, should do the job.

I set the tempo to the rough level, and then starting from the left, find each bar transient across each stem, and drag it to the correct bar marker.

After more than an hour this is all going well, and whilst it sounds a bit rough - I assume due to the 'realtime' algorithm - I'm confident it will render down to a decent sound. But then I hit a problem:

For some reason, there's an implied transient at the end of the clip, or so it seems - everything to the right of my work has been getting more and more compressed, such that as I near the end the remaining audio is extremely fast :(

I'm at the point now where I can't move the next transient far enough to reach a bar, and I think I've maybe wasted all of my time because I can't find a way to fix this - there doesn't seem to be a way to 'extend' the audio clip total length so that there is more space to move transients.

I'm sure there's something obvious I missed here, because it seems like a perfectly normal requirement.

Any ideas ?

Thanks.
#1
Twigman
Gold Member
  • Total Posts : 3658
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2006/08/24 04:45:15
  • Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 06:14:36 (permalink)
After invoking audio snap the first thing i do is go through the track and disable any 'implied transients'.

I pass to the pool the set of transients that I wish to quantise to. I then, on the other tracks go through each transient and select stretch to nearest transient by right clicking the transient marker on the stretching track....where a transient falls between 2 transients in the pool I calculate its theoretical position and stretch to that mark.......


I'm probably doing it all wrong but it seems to work for me.

Become a Fan on Facebook
Buy our stuff on iTunes
Q9550-P5QL-E-8GB1066RAM-GT9800 1GB-RME HDSP9632-W7Prox64-X2x64
#2
koalaboy
New Member
  • Total Posts : 31
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/09/17 07:40:19
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 06:21:42 (permalink)
Hi Twigman,

I should have mentioned that before everything else, I set the threshold such that no transients are initially enabled - I enable each one individually, as I don't have a drum track and as such none of them are quitable to initially quantize 'to'.

I'm just struggling to work out why the audio 'clip' doesn't grow as I stretch transients to the right - I would have thought that everything to the right of the transient I'm moving (considering there are no transient markers enabled after it) should just move along, thus extending the size of the clip.

What seems to happen, is the audio slowly gets 'squashed' against the original clip end, even though there's no marker there or anything else I can see.

#3
EtherealEntity
Bronze Member
  • Total Posts : 338
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/11/11 07:33:03
  • Location: Essex, U.K
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 06:47:22 (permalink)
I don't have too much experience with this tool but have you tried working from the back of the clip? May be an idea.
#4
koalaboy
New Member
  • Total Posts : 31
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/09/17 07:40:19
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 06:54:39 (permalink)
EtherealEntity


I don't have too much experience with this tool but have you tried working from the back of the clip? May be an idea.


That would definitely have the same problem, as the clip would have nowhere to extend 'backwards'.

I've previously used (and will likely go back to using) Live for this type of thing - I was just hoping Sonar could do it, especially with the Autosnap 2 enhancement - in fact I'm sure it must be able to, but I must be missing something.

I don't generally have to handle an entire track in this way - I'd ensure it was re-recorded in time - and there's often a click track to quantize too as well. I don't mind spending the time though, as it's a hobby rather than a business.
#5
EtherealEntity
Bronze Member
  • Total Posts : 338
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/11/11 07:33:03
  • Location: Essex, U.K
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 07:02:55 (permalink)
Hmmm ok..as far as not being able to extend backwards;

What happens if you first extend the end of the clip? (Drag the end of the clip out- seen as there is no audio there it will be a block of silence). This creates extra 'workspace' within a clip and is useful for clip effect tails on reverbs and stuff, so it may work to drag transients into.
#6
koalaboy
New Member
  • Total Posts : 31
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/09/17 07:40:19
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 07:04:31 (permalink)
EtherealEntity


Hmmm ok..as far as not being able to extend backwards;

What happens if you first extend the end of the clip? (Drag the end of the clip out- seen as there is no audio there it will be a block of silence). This creates extra 'workspace' within a clip and is useful for clip effect tails on reverbs and stuff, so it may work to drag transients into.


I've tried dragging it out afterwards, with no luck. I can try some more things when I get home from work today. It seems as if once Autosnap is used, it has a fixed 'length' it will work within.
#7
EtherealEntity
Bronze Member
  • Total Posts : 338
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/11/11 07:33:03
  • Location: Essex, U.K
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 07:08:16 (permalink)
You say once Autosnap is used it has a fixed length. I wouldn't be surprised if this was true, however limiting that may be.
All I can suggest is bounce your current work into a new clip, disable snap, extend that clip by however much time you think you will need, bounce that down, enable snap, and continue.
#8
koalaboy
New Member
  • Total Posts : 31
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/09/17 07:40:19
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 11:25:46 (permalink)
EtherealEntity


You say once Autosnap is used it has a fixed length. I wouldn't be surprised if this was true, however limiting that may be.
All I can suggest is bounce your current work into a new clip, disable snap, extend that clip by however much time you think you will need, bounce that down, enable snap, and continue.


I'll try that this evening - however, I'm concerned with that process as it will render the highly 'squashed' audio at the end, which will be highly degradated if I try to stretch it again.

I think I'll maybe just try to lengthen the original clip and do a few tests, and then if it's actually stretching into the new space, start the warping all over again :(
#9
brundlefly
Platinum Member
  • Total Posts : 9027
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 15:52:32 (permalink) ☄ Helpful

I set the tempo to the rough level



This is the root of the issue right here. The first thing you want to do when fitting audio to a fixed tempo project is have that initial tempo set so that the last beat of the audio falls precisely on the corresponding measure and beat in the timeline. The easy way to do this is with Set Measure/Beat At now (Ctrl-M). You just need to count out the audio so you know what that last measure and beat is. Or you can start by guesstimating (maybe by setting just the first 8 bars or so), and then set the last beat exactly with S/MBAN when it's clear where it should fall.

SM/BAN does have an issue is 8.5.3 that makes it problematic to set more than one point, but it's still okay for calculating and setting one fixed tempo for the whole project.

Even if there were a good way out of the fix you're in now, it would still be better to go back and start over, because you've essentially set the first part of the clip to the wrong tempo (too slow), and stretched everything more than necessary.
post edited by brundlefly - 2010/07/22 15:54:13
#10
koalaboy
New Member
  • Total Posts : 31
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/09/17 07:40:19
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 16:42:29 (permalink)
Thanks Brundlefly - that seems to be working now.

It's a bit quirky but I seem to have at least this track working as expected - now to reset all the transient markers and then see if the final bounced result sounds good enough.

I'm feeling happier with Audiosnap since the latest update, but there's still a way to go until it's as seamless in workflow to Live. I'll persist though.

Cheers.
#11
koalaboy
New Member
  • Total Posts : 31
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2008/09/17 07:40:19
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 18:40:29 (permalink)
Just as a follow up, all completed for this track audiosnap now, successfully, and once bounced it sounds great.

Thanks again for the help.
#12
Middleman
Gold Member
  • Total Posts : 4395
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2003/12/04 00:58:50
  • Location: Orange County, CA
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 19:34:05 (permalink)
Audio snap scares me. Except for small clips. I get to that screen and I stare in complete disorientation. How about some pop up step by steps for common needs? That would make me feel better.

I lay awake at night staring at the ceiling wondering if I will ever comprehend Audio Snap.

Gear: A bunch of stuff.
#13
jasonthurley
Bronze Member
  • Total Posts : 264
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/07/22 15:57:06
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 19:52:33 (permalink)
My suggestion is to ensure when recording you do it properly/use good musicians/make sure things are lined up before they leave the studio so you don't need to use this feature in which I am sure is doing a great deal of re-sampling which in the end is reducing the sound quality quite a bit....

I am glad it turned out for you though!

Have fun
#14
bmdaustin
Silver Member
  • Total Posts : 1111
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2004/01/11 21:56:51
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 19:54:15 (permalink)
There's a very helpful YouTube video on how to use AudioSnap. Search for Sonar Audiosnap and it should come up quickly.

Paul Baker
Baker's Jazz And More
http://www.bakersjazzandmore.com
#15
Chris in Indy
Bronze Member
  • Total Posts : 460
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2004/03/24 16:15:34
  • Location: Indianpolis, Indiana
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 20:01:34 (permalink)
Middleman


Audio snap scares me. Except for small clips. I get to that screen and I stare in complete disorientation. How about some pop up step by steps for common needs? That would make me feel better.

I lay awake at night staring at the ceiling wondering if I will ever comprehend Audio Snap.


I concur completely .....................

Chris in Indy ............... 
#16
brundlefly
Platinum Member
  • Total Posts : 9027
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re:Autosnap - what am I doing wrong ? 2010/07/22 20:07:33 (permalink)
koalaboy


Just as a follow up, all completed for this track audiosnap now, successfully, and once bounced it sounds great.

Thanks again for the help.
Glad to hear it, and glad to help. 


#17
Jump to:
© 2014 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1