bitflipper


X1b addresses at least two issues that are not specific to X1, but apply to previous versions of SONAR as well: V-Vocal crashes

V-Vocal still crashes for me....X1b seems to have fixed nothing V-Vocalwise

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pwal


the thing most people forget? cakewalk is a business, bottom line is dollar$

And their not doing a very good job at convincing me of giving them any more of them.

Vista Business x64 Service pack 2 - Intel Xeon X5472 @ 3.0 GHz processors (2) Quad Core - 8.0 GB ram  -  Creative SB X-Fi  -  Nvidia Quadro 5600  -  Sonar 8.5 & X1a Producer
The problem with perfection is that it has no limits. Normally, once you obtain perfection, you realize how it could be better. David Gibson - The Art of Mixing

how is the ratio of new users gained vs. old users lost?

list of stuff

JonD

brundlefly

the Sonitus Delay memory leak

The first leaky version of Sonitus Delay appeared on the 8.5 disks, If you have the 8.5 download or any version older than that, you have a good DLL that can be used with 8.5.3... unless there's some other fix (the tempo sync bug?) in the X1b DLL that I don't know about...?

I'm curious why the discs/DVDs would be different from the download?  I don't remember .  Were the discs released later -- with a different (and apparently buggier) version? 

If so, this is an egregious oversight.  For those of us who bought the boxed (broken) version -- where's our hotfix?!

Actually the version on the 8.5 disks (3.3.3.141) was even older than the version that shipped with 8.0 (3.3.3.221), and the version in the download was 3.3.3.372. For reference, the X1b version is 3.3.4.242, but I'm not sure what the bad version in X1 and X1a was; the renamed copy I kept does not show a version in properties.

pwal


the thing most people forget? cakewalk is a business, bottom line is dollar$

Yes... It is a business and must do the things such an entity must... But I've been with them since Master Greg H. first introduced and demo'd the DOS version himself.... and I've "known" many of the team since then... I would say most of not all of them are also musicians and want/use Sonar as much as we (outsiders) do... So they may have to run a business, but they have personal desires for their' products to do the work and well/easy!

That's why I'm so stunned at X1 as a release.... Has this (the above) now changed to pure corporate? I sure hope not for it's the driving reason Cakewalk has been as successful as it has.... It Users (programmers) supporting other users (us)....

We as musicians are in the same boat... We have our art, but then we have to market it in the real world which means doing business!

Keni

Keni Fink
Keni - Facebook
Deep Space Records
Out Of My Head Music (BMI)

X2 Producer/MacPro/Dual 3.2GHz/16GB/Win7ProX64/Presonus 1818VSL

JonD

brundlefly

the Sonitus Delay memory leak

The first leaky version of Sonitus Delay appeared on the 8.5 disks, If you have the 8.5 download or any version older than that, you have a good DLL that can be used with 8.5.3... unless there's some other fix (the tempo sync bug?) in the X1b DLL that I don't know about...?

I'm curious why the discs/DVDs would be different from the download?  I don't remember .  Were the discs released later -- with a different (and apparently buggier) version? 

If so, this is an egregious oversight.  For those of us who bought the boxed (broken) version -- where's our hotfix?!

It's not an official hotfix (which I agree CW should provide for 8.5) but here is a solution, complete with DLL file downloads.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2256892&high=please+read 
 
EDIT: Although this post references the X1a update - these files work with 8.5 as well. 
 

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!

Software: X1 Expanded,
Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit (Dual Boot to XP if required), ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL E7300 Core 2 Duo, 2.6 GHz, 4 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video
Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram
Hardware: V-Studio 100, M-Audio Axiom 49, ART Pro Channel, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...

so is it like yr favourite band changing from their "own style" to a "more generic style" in order to be more financially successful? or more like yr favourite guitar manufacturer ging from 6 strings to 5? the whole "skylight" thing, to me, is a kludged, failed (almost priceless) business move, nothing to do with usefulness of tools, etc... mutton dressed as lamb, and all that...

list of stuff

bitflipper

wouldn't installing X1 over write the old shared and now the new versions are what 8.5.3 calls as well as x1?

Yes, which is why those who have installed X1b alongside 8.5 will have coincidentally acquired a couple of fixes for the latter in the bargain. Which is great, especially if you're slowly migrating to X1 but still using 8.5 day-to-day. But a slap in the face for those of us who have no desire to move to X1, or to pay a hundred bucks for a couple bug fixes.

I recently downloaded a new version of SPAN, a free product that's been around for years and is maintained by a one-man operation. The new version actually includes functional enhancements! Aleksy should be an inspiration to software vendors the world over, and indeed most of the respected small developers have a similar ethic.

It's one of the reasons I hope Reaper does well, even if the product isn't my cup of tea. Its success may encourage a more consumer-friendly model across the board.

BTW, readers might enjoy this article by Dan Goldstein, principle developer for MixCraft, relating the story of a particularly difficult bug. Acoustica is another small company that's been quietly accumulating fans via a customer-centric policy.

Hi BF...

Yes... I couldn't agree with you more! tho I'm of the catagory that has both installed and relies on 8.5.3 while tinkering and complaining about X1x, I believe that you are right...

Knowing what I do about X1 now, I believe Cakewalk should have offerred something along the lines of:

$XX.xx for X1
$X.xx for 8.5.3 fixes

I would easily have been willing to spend money on some bug fixes (????) then to spend twice as much on a different product (unknowing) that shares it's roots in the product I have grown to love.

We all know that bugs are everywhere... but we bought this product expecting bugs to be fixed even faster than new features and releases do...

If I bought a car and it had a "bug" they would replace it or repair it at no extra cost to me.... until it was right.

I believe in this day/age we should start expecting the same from software vendors.... Not talking about changing/adding features.... Simply fixing bugs! If I buy a software that has bugs, the company should be responsible to continue fixing that until the product they sold me works as advertised. I can understand if it takes time... I also understand that they must have income to continue working.... Car companies do that by charging you more with this in mind...

So tho I don't have or like spending money... I would be perfectly happy to pay more for the product with a guarantee that they will fix any bugs before charging me for another car because this one didn't operate as advertised!

Keni

Keni Fink
Keni - Facebook
Deep Space Records
Out Of My Head Music (BMI)

X2 Producer/MacPro/Dual 3.2GHz/16GB/Win7ProX64/Presonus 1818VSL

codamedia

JonD

brundlefly

the Sonitus Delay memory leak

The first leaky version of Sonitus Delay appeared on the 8.5 disks, If you have the 8.5 download or any version older than that, you have a good DLL that can be used with 8.5.3... unless there's some other fix (the tempo sync bug?) in the X1b DLL that I don't know about...?

I'm curious why the discs/DVDs would be different from the download?  I don't remember .  Were the discs released later -- with a different (and apparently buggier) version? 

If so, this is an egregious oversight.  For those of us who bought the boxed (broken) version -- where's our hotfix?!

It's not an official hotfix (which I agree CW should provide for 8.5) but here is a solution, complete with DLL file downloads.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2256892&high=please+read 
 
EDIT: Although this post references the X1a update - these files work with 8.5 as well. 
 

Thanks, brundlefly and codamedia.   Also, thanks to A1mixman for the thread and DLs.

JD

Sonar X2a Prod, Win7 x64, i7 2600K, Intel DZ68DB Mobo, 16GB DDR3 Ram, 3 x WD 1TB Caviar drives, SIIG PCIe FW card, TC Electronic Konnekt 24D, Presonus Firestudio Mobile, My lucky hat.

I concur with the original post.  If there are broken things in 8.5.3 (such as V-vocal) and they're now fixed, these fixes should definitely be available to 8.5.3 (or Sonar 7 or...etc).  

This seems really obvious....well, to me anyway.  I hope they're considering it.

Bit,

Although I believe you are correct, I think CW has turned their sights to the new "X" series.  I hope I am wrong, but I think you have seen the last of the 8.x updates.

www.reginaldkson.com
www.reverbnation.com/reginaldkson

SmokeyJ628


I concur with the original post.  If there are broken things in 8.5.3 (such as V-vocal) and they're now fixed, these fixes should definitely be available to 8.5.3 (or Sonar 7 or...etc).  

This seems really obvious....well, to me anyway.  I hope they're considering it.

I brought this topic up a long time ago. It's not going to happen. I agree with you and Bitflipper ... it should be done, but it's not going to be.

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."

SmokeyJ628


I concur with the original post.  If there are broken things in 8.5.3 (such as V-vocal) and they're now fixed, these fixes should definitely be available to 8.5.3 (or Sonar 7 or...etc).  

This seems really obvious....well, to me anyway.  I hope they're considering it.

Ditto

DeeS

pwal


the thing most people forget? cakewalk is a business, bottom line is dollar$

And their not doing a very good job at convincing me of giving them any more of them.

And this is how competition works.  Some other company will get it right (or at least better) and people will start switching.   I've already heard lots of stories about how stable Studio One is.  through on a couple more features and there's going to be trouble.  I've also been hearing a lot of good things about Cubase, I didn't like there program years ago.  It just didn't make sense to me, I was always reaching for the manual (kind of like with X1).  So I switched to Sonar.   Course now I just got Nexus 2 which just happened to come with a e-licenser doggle...

Mathew

Hip Hop
http://www.soundclick.com...ault.cfm?bandID=213418

BreakBeats
http://www.soundclick.com...ault.cfm?bandID=219099

i7 12 gb ram, Komplete 5, Izotope Ozone & Stutter, Symphonic Orchestra Plat.

+1 for the OP

I'd have no problem with the DAW 2.0 if the DAW 1.0 had been finished before they moved on.

Child

www.honestypot.com

How about sharing those fixes with those of us who aren't ready to go on the X1 adventure ride just yet?

I'd say the odds of that happening are slim to none. 

Dave
Computer: Core2Quad, 8GB/2.5TB+, Windows 8 Pro 64-bit, Sonar X2A Producer, Delta 44, Cakewalk UM-3G
Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R
Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp.
Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, etc... 
Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad

I'm with you Bit - X1 is like a different piece of software than the previous Sonar.  Just like Microsoft has been supporting XP for all these years I think it would be great if Cakewalk fixed a few things in 8.5 too, for a while anyway.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=897808

I've already heard lots of stories about how stable Studio One is.

I recently spent some time with Studio One. Ultimately, I set it aside as not quite ready - too many important features aren't in there yet. But I'll be checking out the next major release with interest, because the company is definitely doing a lot of things right. What is in there is solid and mostly well thought-out.

I'm still holding out hope that the next version of SONAR will be so killer that I'll have no problem happily forking over the upgrade price and getting back on board. I am always the optimist - but that's a chronic personality disorder that I probably should learn to overcome.

All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to.

My Stuff

In my opinion, some bugs are purposely retained so they can have a new version out with the bug fixes and we will be forced to buy it.  It is a business after all...

All X1 has done is given me a greater appreciation for 8.5.3....

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650 3.0GHz, 8GB RAM Corsair xms2 (4 x 2B), Asus P5Q Delux, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS, RME AIO, UA 2192, Lynx Aurora 8, UAD-2 Quad (x2), UAD-1 PCI, Duende PCIe, Powercore FW, Dual Boot system ft. XP Pro SP2 & Win 7 Pro 64bit, Studio One Pro v.2, Sonar 8.5.3, Samplitude ProX, Sonar X1d Expanded   

bitflipper

I recently downloaded a new version of SPAN, a free product that's been around for years and is maintained by a one-man operation. The new version actually includes functional enhancements! Aleksy should be an inspiration to software vendors the world over, and indeed most of the respected small developers have a similar ethic.

I've mentioned it before but I feel it bears mentioning again: I am still impressed that Terratec released 64 bit drivers for one of their products half a decade after it was discontinued.

It's one of the reasons I hope Reaper does well, even if the product isn't my cup of tea. Its success may encourage a more consumer-friendly model across the board.

Yes I hope so too.

BTW, readers might enjoy this article by Dan Goldstein, principle developer for MixCraft, relating the story of a particularly difficult bug. Acoustica is another small company that's been quietly accumulating fans via a customer-centric policy.

Nice read. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

UnderTow

Searchfinger


In my opinion, some bugs are purposely retained so they can have a new version out with the bug fixes and we will be forced to buy it.  It is a business after all...

I sincerely doubt this although I am sure they do leave some bugs unfixed even though they are aware of them. Not to force people to upgrade but because they think they can get away with it as few users are complaining or because they can't figure out what is causing them or because they do know what is causing them but a solution would mean too much work to implement.

UnderTow

Yes,
 That was an excellent article to read.

 It was revealing that from the onset the developer assumed that the problem was caused by a change in their software and that even though the problem eventually was found to be some unrecognized flaw in Win XP that the solution was still made by adjusting the software to provide a solution.

 That's called keeping the eye on the prize.

 best regards,
 mike

Glitter Chariot

Jamie Campbell & Dave Kelsay

Cousin Williams

Daniell Revenaugh

Searchfinger


In my opinion, some bugs are purposely retained so they can have a new version out with the bug fixes and we will be forced to buy it.  It is a business after all...

Course American car companies tried that for years (planned obsolences) I wonder how that worked out...

Also, note I don't think Cakewalk is to big to fail, lol

Mathew

Hip Hop
http://www.soundclick.com...ault.cfm?bandID=213418

BreakBeats
http://www.soundclick.com...ault.cfm?bandID=219099

i7 12 gb ram, Komplete 5, Izotope Ozone & Stutter, Symphonic Orchestra Plat.

Having been intimately involved in the software industry for nearly 40 years, I can tell you with certainty that - crazy as it sounds - yes, some bugs are intentionally left in.

But it's not planned obsolescence. It's because you can never get rid of all the bugs as long as you continue to enhance the product. You simply cannot wait until the bugs are gone before releasing your product. You'd never release anything.

All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to.

My Stuff

bitflipper


Having been intimately involved in the software industry for nearly 40 years, I can tell you with certainty that - crazy as it sounds - yes, some bugs are intentionally left in.

But it's not planned obsolescence. It's because you can never get rid of all the bugs as long as you continue to enhance the product. You simply cannot wait until the bugs are gone before releasing your product. You'd never release anything.

Yes and because of that it is important that a software company does proper bug triaging. On the list of fixed X1b bugs was a mixture of critical bugs as well as all sorts of fluffy bugs that certainly weren't showstoppers for anyone. Every single bug they fix, critical or not, takes time. Instead they should have triaged the bugs properly as well as broken the list down into 2 or 3 groups and released a patch earlier that only fixed the critical first group of bugs. Then a next one that fixes the less critical bugs (plus additional critical bugs that were found in the mean time), etc.
 
CW only seems to fix the most obvious of critical bugs, and after that only the low-hanging fruit that nicely fills out the list of bug fixes to make us feel that they are hard at work. I just don't buy it. To me it just indicates that they don't have proper processes in place.

Intel DX48BT2, Core 2 Quad Q9450 @ 2.66GHz, 8GB DDR3, Edirol FA-66
Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit, Sonar PE 8.5.3 (usually 32-bit) 

Hi all,i just installed X1b with Windows 7 and i'ts awesome,for five days no crash no glitch and Vvocal is perfect.My only problem is loop audition out of sync(cake are working CWBRN-4295).

Best

Roby

Bub

SmokeyJ628


I concur with the original post.  If there are broken things in 8.5.3 (such as V-vocal) and they're now fixed, these fixes should definitely be available to 8.5.3 (or Sonar 7 or...etc).  

This seems really obvious....well, to me anyway.  I hope they're considering it.

I brought this topic up a long time ago. It's not going to happen. I agree with you and Bitflipper ... it should be done, but it's not going to be.

...Same feelings here... 


...I believe Bitflipper perfectly knows there won't be any fixes for previous SONAR versions, as History shows....


...nevertheless he points out the right.....   

GothicAngeL - EBM - Dark Electronics
___________________________________
SONAR 8.5 Producer & SONAR X1 Producer  
SAMPLITUDE 11 - FL Studio Producer 10 - Reason 5   
___________________________________
DELL Dimension E521 - AMD 64X2 - 4GB Ram 
Windows 7 Pro 64bit
___________________________________
Proud "Apple's i-STUFF" Worst Enemy...

B San


All X1 has done is given me a greater appreciation for 8.5.3....

...DEFINITELY... I DO understand you...


...Sonar 8.5.3... the last REAL Sonar....... 

GothicAngeL - EBM - Dark Electronics
___________________________________
SONAR 8.5 Producer & SONAR X1 Producer  
SAMPLITUDE 11 - FL Studio Producer 10 - Reason 5   
___________________________________
DELL Dimension E521 - AMD 64X2 - 4GB Ram 
Windows 7 Pro 64bit
___________________________________
Proud "Apple's i-STUFF" Worst Enemy...

I'm trying the cubase demo so far, just in case.

Boy I hate learning how to do stuff that I already should know how to do (one of my main complaints with X1).

Although that VST expression stuff looks like it might be neat.

Mathew

Hip Hop
http://www.soundclick.com...ault.cfm?bandID=213418

BreakBeats
http://www.soundclick.com...ault.cfm?bandID=219099

i7 12 gb ram, Komplete 5, Izotope Ozone & Stutter, Symphonic Orchestra Plat.