VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again.

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bitman
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2011/04/12 13:47:17 (permalink)

VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again.

Another one joins the fray.

http://www.softube.se/index.php?p=news&id=154


lsb
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    wintaper
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 14:16:10 (permalink)
    perhaps when VST3 supports dockable toolbars 

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    #2
    keith
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 17:04:23 (permalink)
    Nugen Audio as well, for their excellent Stereopack plugs...
    #3
    A1MixMan
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 17:16:02 (permalink)
    Too bad it doesn't list the details of why this is important or why the end user would want it. i.e. the benefits of VST3 as pertains to their plugins. As it is, all I see is "VST3 will add additional features"

    So for someone who knows very little about VST3, I look at that page and say "ehh" and move on to something else.

    Ehh...

    A1
    #4
    bitman
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 17:36:20 (permalink)
    From the page that was linked:

    Key features
  • Support for external sidechain inputs
  • Improved CPU performance
  • Improved usage of the AI knob on Steinberg audio interfaces

  • lsb
    #5
    pwal
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 17:40:20 (permalink)
    The VST interface specification was updated to version 3.0 in 2008. Changes included
    • Audio Inputs for VST Instruments
    • Multiple MIDI inputs/outputs
    • Optional SKI (Steinberg Kernel Interface) integration
    The VST interface specification was updated to version 3.5 in February, 2011. Changes included, among others, Note Expression where "each individual note (event) in a polyphonic arrangement can contain extensive articulation information, which creates unparalleled flexibility and a much more natural feel of playing."
    from teh wikipedias

    list of stuff
    #6
    Fog
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 18:37:56 (permalink)
    speaking of the whole thing.. there is an article / interview with FX expansions MD

    CM164 page 12

    steinberg changed the past format , instead of building on 2.4.. = made dev times even longer

    so whats the priority for end users... x64 versions... or vst 3?

    I know I'd rather not be using bitbridge for ANYTHING

    I take what people like him and Noel more as factual... after all they are working with this stuff and not just spec sheet reading.

    post edited by Fog - 2011/04/12 18:40:47
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    Kroneborge
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 18:50:42 (permalink)
    I'm very much in favor of 64 bit then vst 3.0


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    Mooch4056
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 18:59:24 (permalink)
    will vst3 make my mixes automatically better or something?

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    #9
    John
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 19:21:20 (permalink)
    Mooch4056


    will vst3 make my mixes automatically better or something?


    Only if you use Cubase.

    Best
    John
    #10
    bapu
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/12 19:27:07 (permalink)
    Mooch4056


    will vst3 make my mixes automatically better or something?

    Not so sure. You're awesome as you are.
    (or are you?)


    #11
    mechuniversal
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 00:52:31 (permalink)
    Audio inputs for VST plugs would be GREAT.  Right now we only have 2 comp and one gate option for sidechaining in Sonar.  Also, comps that take a sidechain like my vocal rider from waves do not work off a sidechain in Sonar.   A VST3 implementation would would give plugs much more flexibility.   You could do all kinds of stuff with freely routable audio input into any plug. 
    #12
    GIM Productions
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 05:17:11 (permalink)
    mechuniversal


    Audio inputs for VST plugs would be GREAT.  Right now we only have 2 comp and one gate option for sidechaining in Sonar.  Also, comps that take a sidechain like my vocal rider from waves do not work off a sidechain in Sonar.   A VST3 implementation would would give plugs much more flexibility.   You could do all kinds of stuff with freely routable audio input into any plug. 


    Hi all,sorry but if you sidechain the bus is the same or not?VST 3 is not a great improve for me...

    Best

    Roby
    #13
    dreamkeeper
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 09:29:35 (permalink)


    "... must've been another of my dreams ..."
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    Freddie H
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 09:33:00 (permalink)
    Its about time Cakewalk and SONAR start supporting VST3.
    What are they waiting on...... VST4? 
    I have plugins that are in VST3 format too. Why shouldn't I be able to use them in SONAR X1 too?
    post edited by Freddie H - 2011/04/13 09:34:19


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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 09:40:52 (permalink)
    From now on I'll consider everyone demanding VST3

    - a troll
    - a Steinberg shill
    - an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Pick at least one...

    "... must've been another of my dreams ..."
    #16
    Freddie H
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 09:44:40 (permalink)
    dreamkeeper


    From now on I'll consider everyone demanding VST3

    - a troll
    - a Steinberg shill
    - an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Pick at least one...

    sure...
     
    The idiot must be you...- an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about.


    -Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
    #17
    dreamkeeper
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 10:31:22 (permalink)
    Freddie H


    dreamkeeper


    From now on I'll consider everyone demanding VST3

    - a troll
    - a Steinberg shill
    - an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Pick at least one...

    sure...
     
    The idiot must be you...- an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about.


    Ah, so sorry... wrong guess! Wanna try again?

    "... must've been another of my dreams ..."
    #18
    bitman
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 11:25:09 (permalink)
    Shhh...

    Be nice to one another.

    We will collectively rejoice if and when Cakewalk supports VST3 and we can use the VST3 sidechain standard therein. Vocal Rider for one. All others as well.

    I am a voice crying in the wilderness.

    lsb
    #19
    codamedia
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 11:26:35 (permalink)
    dreamkeeper


    From now on I'll consider everyone demanding VST3

    - a troll
    - a Steinberg shill
    - an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Pick at least one...
    That is not fair! I am an advocate of X1 and really enjoy using it, but this is a feature I would like to see (not demanding it, but I want to see it). I can respect and even accept Noel's explanation (in previous threads) that this is not as easy to integrate as one might think. However - your post seems very inaccurate, and borderline rude.
     
    Waves Vocal Rider is a prime example. It is a popular plug-in, that requires VST3 for full functionality. The plug-in works "good" under the current spec, but needs VST3 in order to side-chain. Side-Chaining is where that plug-in changes from "good", to "exceptional" (of course, that is just my opinion ). This works perfectly well in Cubase (to be expected) and Studio One (maybe others as well), but will not work in Sonar because of the lack of VST 3 support.
     
    Sure I want plug-in vendors to work on 64 bit support more than VST 3, but what is wrong with wanting Sonar to support VST3. I'm patient, and I will wait for that day - likely no matter how long it takes - but I will not tolerate being called a Troll or an "idiot that does not know what they are talking about" while I am waiting.
     
    post edited by codamedia - 2011/04/13 11:38:31

    Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
     

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    #20
    Twigman
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 11:30:43 (permalink)
    I'd prefer plugin providers to work on development of native x64 plugs rather than develop plugs for VST3.

    I think CW however should consider VST3 support as some plugs require VST3 support to operate to their fullest.


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    #21
    dreamkeeper
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 12:51:24 (permalink)
    Just in case anyone missed it (it has been explained umpteen times):

    VST2 can side-chain very well, and could do so even before Sonar made it accessible. There are a ton of "old" plug-ins with side-chaining capabilities. Those few that don't work in Sonar, use proprietary techniques that most likely have nothing to do with the VST specs.

    VST2 plug-ins can have as many audio inputs as the developer decides to implement. The VST3 side-chaining is part of the smoke-and-mirrors tactics of Steinberg - some may call it "marketing".

    Also VST2 plug-ins can save CPU and stop processing if the developer decides to implement this. I've even tested this with Synthmaker - no problem at all.

    Yes, multiple MIDI ports are new in VST3, and the same goes for dynamic changes to the in-/output configuration AFAIK. Though many developers have stated that this could've been achieved with some small additions to the spec in VST2 as well, without losing backward compatibility.

    And that's the last time I've explained it...

    "... must've been another of my dreams ..."
    #22
    BEATZM1D10T
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 13:10:14 (permalink)
    dreamkeeper


    Just in case anyone missed it (it has been explained umpteen times):

    VST2 can side-chain very well, and could do so even before Sonar made it accessible. There are a ton of "old" plug-ins with side-chaining capabilities. Those few that don't work in Sonar, use proprietary techniques that most likely have nothing to do with the VST specs.

    VST2 plug-ins can have as many audio inputs as the developer decides to implement. The VST3 side-chaining is part of the smoke-and-mirrors tactics of Steinberg - some may call it "marketing".

    Also VST2 plug-ins can save CPU and stop processing if the developer decides to implement this. I've even tested this with Synthmaker - no problem at all.

    Yes, multiple MIDI ports are new in VST3, and the same goes for dynamic changes to the in-/output configuration AFAIK. Though many developers have stated that this could've been achieved with some small additions to the spec in VST2 as well, without losing backward compatibility.

    And that's the last time I've explained it...


    Stop using logic and facts! You'll start a riot!
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    dreamkeeper
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 13:26:52 (permalink)
    BEATZM1D10T


    dreamkeeper


    Just in case anyone missed it (it has been explained umpteen times):

    VST2 can side-chain very well, and could do so even before Sonar made it accessible. There are a ton of "old" plug-ins with side-chaining capabilities. Those few that don't work in Sonar, use proprietary techniques that most likely have nothing to do with the VST specs.

    VST2 plug-ins can have as many audio inputs as the developer decides to implement. The VST3 side-chaining is part of the smoke-and-mirrors tactics of Steinberg - some may call it "marketing".

    Also VST2 plug-ins can save CPU and stop processing if the developer decides to implement this. I've even tested this with Synthmaker - no problem at all.

    Yes, multiple MIDI ports are new in VST3, and the same goes for dynamic changes to the in-/output configuration AFAIK. Though many developers have stated that this could've been achieved with some small additions to the spec in VST2 as well, without losing backward compatibility.

    And that's the last time I've explained it...


    Stop using logic and facts! You'll start a riot!


    Oops! Guilty as charged. Figured that no one would notice...

    "... must've been another of my dreams ..."
    #24
    codamedia
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 14:23:34 (permalink)
    dreamkeeper


    Just in case anyone missed it (it has been explained umpteen times):

    VST2 can side-chain very well, and could do so even before Sonar made it accessible. There are a ton of "old" plug-ins with side-chaining capabilities. Those few that don't work in Sonar, use proprietary techniques that most likely have nothing to do with the VST specs.

    VST2 plug-ins can have as many audio inputs as the developer decides to implement. The VST3 side-chaining is part of the smoke-and-mirrors tactics of Steinberg - some may call it "marketing".

    Also VST2 plug-ins can save CPU and stop processing if the developer decides to implement this. I've even tested this with Synthmaker - no problem at all.

    Yes, multiple MIDI ports are new in VST3, and the same goes for dynamic changes to the in-/output configuration AFAIK. Though many developers have stated that this could've been achieved with some small additions to the spec in VST2 as well, without losing backward compatibility.

    And that's the last time I've explained it...
    I am not going to argue these points at all - they make sense. But most of what you are saying is actually an argument for the Plug-In Vendors, not with us users.  It doesn't matter to us if the vendors "could have done it with VST 2", the fact remains - many of them are NOT staying with VST 2, they have moved on to VST 3, like it or not.
     
    I don't believe any of us are demanding VST3 development from Plug-In Vendors, all we ask for is VST 3 support (without losing VST 2) in an up coming version of Sonar so we can use the latest round of plug-ins to their fullest potential. If that makes me a Troll or an Idiot as you suggested earlier, so be it

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    #25
    dreamkeeper
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 14:58:53 (permalink)
    You don't understand. I'm not arguing for the vendors (if anything, then against those supporting VST3 only...) but against Steinberg's fishy marketing tactics. With the introduction of VST3 they wanted to get a headstart - after they realised that they screwed up with VST2 and are no more in control of it. Remember how long it took until they made the SDK available?

    It's my firm belief that such tactics shouldn't be supported - as simple as that. If there are plug-in vendors who don't provide a proper VST2 version, then ask them to do so. Hope that's clearer now.

    And btw: There's nothing wrong with asking. I chose my wording carefully - hence the term "demand".

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    #26
    Supercomposer
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/13 19:29:19 (permalink)
    I LOVE Cubase 6 !! VST3.5 support and Note Expression with Halion 4 !
    Whooops, wrong forum. Sorry guys. ;)

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    mountaincruz
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/15 16:14:18 (permalink)
    I'm not the most intelligent person in the world, but...

    All anti-Steinberg religious wars aside, it seems to me that if a significant number of plugin providers move to VST3, it may be in Cakewalk's (and our) best interest to implement support for VST 3. After all, Cakewalk can be influenced by the market.
     
    We will see what happens.

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    John
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/15 16:58:41 (permalink)
    mountaincruz


    I'm not the most intelligent person in the world, but...

    All anti-Steinberg religious wars aside, it seems to me that if a significant number of plugin providers move to VST3, it may be in Cakewalk's (and our) best interest to implement support for VST 3. After all, Cakewalk can be influenced by the market.
     
    We will see what happens.


    Seems to me to be a very reasonable point of view.

    At some point CW will support VST 3. For me at present, I would much rather have the developers go to 64 bits  than VST 3. VST 3 can wait.

    Best
    John
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    Re:VST3 - Shhh. It's happening again. 2011/04/15 17:04:20 (permalink)
    Freddie H


    Its about time Cakewalk and SONAR start supporting VST3.
    What are they waiting on...... VST4? 
    I have plugins that are in VST3 format too. Why shouldn't I be able to use them in SONAR X1 too?
    For some reason I thought VST3 format was backwards compatible with VST2? So you can't run a VST3 plugin in Sonar?


    If things are moving in this direction, it would be nice for Cakewalk to support VST3.



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