pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand / fill out bug report / feature request
Granted, X1 has a lot of great features, but speak up if you long for Staff View improvements, and describe what difficulties you are having with it. What are your most important Staff View improvement requirements? How much longer are you willing to wait for fixes? Would you willing to jump ship if another Windows based DAW with most of X1's capabilities were made available?
post edited by pbognar - 2012/03/12 18:07:10
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 16:41:00
(permalink)
I'm waiting for he new Digital Performer for Windows to be released.
|
backwoods
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2571
- Joined: 2011/03/23 17:24:50
- Location: South Pacific
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 16:46:45
(permalink)
Love the avatar pbognar!
Cubase has better staff view but is still poor compared to Sibelius.
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 16:52:59
(permalink)
backwoods
Love the avatar pbognar!
Cubase has better staff view but is still poor compared to Sibelius.
My personal needs are in the area of MIDI input and editing. If I would want to print, I would use Music XML or export MIDI to a notation program.
|
Elffin
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1196
- Joined: 2007/02/11 16:49:19
- Location: Wales
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 17:36:48
(permalink)
Another hand up here... I use sonar for midi & editing .. I only use Sibelius to print off 'tidy' copies.
Sonar just gives me the control and flexibility needed for my Libraries / articulations.
|
BenMMusTech
Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2606
- Joined: 2011/05/23 16:59:57
- Location: Warragul, Victoria-Australia
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 17:49:32
(permalink)
I use to be with you on this guys but it's not necssary for 200 bucks Notion 3 can do all your staff view stuff better than Cake ever implement. Notion is also rewire compatible.
Just let Cake do what it does best and that is deliver IMHO one of the best if not the best DAW on the market.
I'd prefer they implement a varispeed button than do anything to the staff.
Disclaimer I own Notion 3
Peace Ben
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 17:59:32
(permalink)
BenMMusTech
I use to be with you on this guys but it's not necssary for 200 bucks Notion 3 can do all your staff view stuff better than Cake ever implement. Notion is also rewire compatible.
Just let Cake do what it does best and that is deliver IMHO one of the best if not the best DAW on the market.
I'd prefer they implement a varispeed button than do anything to the staff.
Disclaimer I own Notion 3
Peace Ben
Thanks for popping in Ben. I am looking for integrated MIDI staff editing, printing is not really a priority for me. Besides, that $200 could go toward another DAW which has better integrated MIDI staff editing 
|
melmyers
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 157
- Joined: 2008/08/11 13:08:29
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 18:43:54
(permalink)
If you find a DAW for $200 that is every bit as good as X1 AND has flawless integrated MIDI staff editing, let us all know! Nothing beats X1 for me, staff editing or not.
Mel Myers Producer/Songwriter/Voiceover Talent Sonar Platinum 64-bit/Intel Quad Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz 16GB RAM/LGA1155 Motherboard/Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit /Focusrite 18i20/Cakewalk A-800 Pro/UAD-2 Quad PCIe/& a black and white Pomeranian who thinks he's the boss
|
Elffin
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1196
- Joined: 2007/02/11 16:49:19
- Location: Wales
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 19:10:41
(permalink)
Wonder if Motu will offer a crossgrade to Digital Performer For 200?
I think X1 is pretty good too... But SV has been overlooked time and time again - even just a little fix could get most things right...
Even Avid saw it necessary to develop and purchase sibelius in order to improve their staff view.
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 19:22:11
(permalink)
melmyers
If you find a DAW for $200 that is every bit as good as X1 AND has flawless integrated MIDI staff editing, let us all know! Nothing beats X1 for me, staff editing or not.
Do you use the staff editor? And if you don't is it because of it's limitations or because you prefer not to? I did say that X1 was great, but I also said $200 TOWARD a DAW. 
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 19:24:03
(permalink)
Elffin
Wonder if Motu will offer a crossgrade to Digital Performer For 200?
I think X1 is pretty good too... But SV has been overlooked time and time again - even just a little fix could get most things right...
Even Avid saw it necessary to develop and purchase sibelius in order to improve their staff view.
I would not be offended if Notion was purchased by Roland / Cakewalk, and Notion Jr. became the new staff view.
|
riojazz
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1337
- Joined: 2004/02/26 13:23:02
- Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 19:36:22
(permalink)
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 20:31:00
(permalink)
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 20:34:39
(permalink)
I don't use the staff editor, but the guys who do are absolutely correct about this. It *has* been left to lapse, and hasn't had any meaningful updates in years. I agree that an in-theory robust link to an expansion or third party application could be a good solution, but that doesn't currently exist either. So a hands up from me too; it's off my radar somewhat, but I certainly support my staff view brothers and sisters in their fight for equality :)
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
LANEY
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1350
- Joined: 2010/12/11 20:27:13
- Location: USA
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 20:35:36
(permalink)
I just use Sibelius! It is great, ;)
i7/16GB ram Win 7 x64 SONAR Platinum Producer x64 VS-700 C&R Octa-Capture and VS-100 for live recording
|
xtrumpeter
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 27
- Joined: 2011/05/28 09:27:49
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 21:15:17
(permalink)
(hand raised) I want the staff view tweaked to be easier to use. There are times when I just have to see and edit the music as it was intended, not PRV. However I don't need Sonar to be a fancy schmancy full notation editor and printer. Just let me edit notes on a staff without too much bother.
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 21:22:23
(permalink)
backwoods
Love the avatar pbognar!
Cubase has better staff view but is still poor compared to Sibelius.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Sibelius is a pro notation program, its purpose is to create published-quality scores. The staff view in Sonar is designed as a MIDI input tool, not to create published-quality scores. JG www.jerrygerber.com
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 21:32:57
(permalink)
pbognar
Granted, X1 has a lot of great features, but speak up if you long for Staff View improvements, and describe what difficulties you are having with it.
What are your most important Staff View improvement requirements?
How much longer are you willing to wait for fixes?
Would you willing to jump ship if another Windows based DAW with most of X1's capabilities were made available?
I appreciate and share your concerns, unfortunately it seems that the vast majority of people around here do not. I reported many months ago that X1 has new bugs in the staff view, I filled out the Cakewalk Problem Reporter but it's clear that the staff view is a very low priority. I've never expected the staff view to be a notation program, but it should be an effective midi-input tool, because that's what it is supposed to be. I have found with X1d that the note values chosen don't always work. When I select a dotted note for example and input on the staff, it works fine. But then if I select a triplet, using the floating control bar, the triplet is still a dotted note, even though it says, i.e. 8th note triplet! If you select it a second time, then it works correctly. I've reported that to Cakwalk as well. And then of course there's the track pane in the staff view that no longer selects the active track. That pretty much requires switching screens everytime you want to change the active track, not good... I'm definitely ready now to switch DAWS when I need to upgrade. Digital Performer is coming soon for Windows and Cubase is an option. My real hope is that Cakewalk fixes the staff view, that would be the best of all options. But. with four updates into X1 it doesn't look very promising. X1d is definitely an improvement, it behaves much better than X1c. But the staff view bugs are the deal-breaker for me. I don't expect software not to have bugs. What really bothers me is when a company knows about long-standing bugs and just doesn't fix them over a reasonable period of time, like a year... JG www.jerrygerber.com
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 21:53:23
(permalink)
Hand up here.
I used to use MC4 and really enjoyed the staff view there. X1 does the same thing but, they moved the functions to other locations.
All of the things that you would use in staff view editing, need to be available in a tool bar in SV. You should not have to go looking for the other functions and tools.
Maybe I need to spend more time playing with SV in X1...... but the last time I was trying to edit a simple midi part I spent more time looking in the manual to find where certain functions had gone to.
With MC4, it was all right there in SV window.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
relpomiraculous
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 525
- Joined: 2004/10/05 07:56:01
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 22:47:52
(permalink)
Before listing my gripes I would love to watch a video on just the staff view and all of its functions. Here's a good one on lyrics and chord grids - http://www.youtube.com/wa...pDuszE&feature=related
post edited by relpomiraculous - 2012/03/09 23:08:22
Sonar X2 64 bit - Win 7 Pro 64 bit - Intel Core i7 870 - 8 gigs of ram - HP 3130 desktop
|
noynekker
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1235
- Joined: 2012/01/12 01:09:45
- Location: POCO, by the river, Canada
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 22:49:49
(permalink)
. . . both hands up in the air here !
I use the Staff view most when I'm in composition mode, that's when it's most value to me. My musical training and background are such that I relate to a staff view to compose and interpret music from a "staff" point of view. I realize not everybody approaches music composition the same way, so I guess that's why Cakewalk hasn't developed STAFF past where it's been at for years now. I've never tried other "Staff" softwares such as Notion or Sibelius, and I don't need to print scores.
I certainly would like to see a more powerfully featured toolbar in Sonar's Staff View so that MIDI composition would be enhanced beyond the "basic" features we have right now. Especially helpful would be some sort of colored coded note recognition for midi channels or different event types. The ability to nudge note times to adjust groove or feel in staff view instead of going to PRV mode would be nice. What about using the "pattern brush" idea in Staff view for creating macros or preset patterns to speed up compositional input ? Would also be great if there was an option to change the linear display of an instrument part to some sort of multiline staff display. In songwriting, it would be useful to convert a vocal audio track to a midi note track, and then apply lyrics to the resulting staff view display (V-Vocal sort of has this function, but it doesn't really work without a lot of editing) . . . I'll stop now . . . and go watch the rest of the hockey game . . .
|
DonaldDuck
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
- Total Posts : 789
- Joined: 2007/03/14 16:46:29
- Location: Tha South baby!
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 23:01:07
(permalink)
*both hands way up in the air*
I'm so glad I wore deodorant today!
I use Sibelius mostly, and then I import the midi into Sonar since staff view is like doing surgery. If I need to make major changes, I just open up Sibelius and edit it in there. I have to do the whole save midi and import into Sonar thing. It gets old fast.
-Donald The Little DAW That Could: Q6850 (OC to 3.6 GHz) | Win7 Pro 64 | 8 GB DDR2-1200 RAM | Sonar Producer 8.5.3 and X1 | Tascam DM4800 | UA 2192
|
trimph1
Max Output Level: -12 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6348
- Joined: 2010/09/07 19:20:06
- Location: London ON
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 23:06:40
(permalink)
I would like to see Staff View improved as well...
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/09 23:57:24
(permalink)
Could someone who uses staff view frequently please do me a favor? In X1d, I find that if I go the staff view and open the floating control bar and choose and enter a dotted note on the staff, say a dotted eighth note, and then choose a triplet, say a triplet eighth note, the first time I put the triplet on the staff I get a dotted note or a regular note instead! The 2nd time I choose a triplet, it works correctly. Can someone verify that this is occuring on another system? Thanks a lot! Best, Jerry www.jerrygerber.com
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/10 00:45:09
(permalink)
BenMMusTech
I use to be with you on this guys but it's not necssary for 200 bucks Notion 3 can do all your staff view stuff better than Cake ever implement. Notion is also rewire compatible.
Just let Cake do what it does best and that is deliver IMHO one of the best if not the best DAW on the market.
I'd prefer they implement a varispeed button than do anything to the staff.
Disclaimer I own Notion 3
Peace Ben
I own Notion 3 and Sibelius 6 and neither will allow me to compose INSIDE SONAR. Unfortuantlely Sonar's "Staff View" is not up to the job.
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/10 00:51:35
(permalink)
jsg
I'm definitely ready now to switch DAWS when I need to upgrade. Digital Performer is coming soon for Windows and Cubase is an option. My real hope is that Cakewalk fixes the staff view, that would be the best of all options. But. with four updates into X1 it doesn't look very promising. X1d is definitely an improvement, it behaves much better than X1c. But the staff view bugs are the deal-breaker for me.
I don't expect software not to have bugs. What really bothers me is when a company knows about long-standing bugs and just doesn't fix them over a reasonable period of time, like a year...
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
Cakewalk has ignored it for so many years that's it's clear to me it will never be improved. XML output would be great if the staff view was usable to begin with. I'm really anxious to check out DP for Windows.
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/10 01:00:29
(permalink)
vintagevibe
jsg
I'm definitely ready now to switch DAWS when I need to upgrade. Digital Performer is coming soon for Windows and Cubase is an option. My real hope is that Cakewalk fixes the staff view, that would be the best of all options. But. with four updates into X1 it doesn't look very promising. X1d is definitely an improvement, it behaves much better than X1c. But the staff view bugs are the deal-breaker for me.
I don't expect software not to have bugs. What really bothers me is when a company knows about long-standing bugs and just doesn't fix them over a reasonable period of time, like a year...
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
Cakewalk has ignored it for so many years that's it's clear to me it will never be improved. XML output would be great if the staff view was usable to begin with. I'm really anxious to check out DP for Windows.
Maybe that's why DP is trying to do? For those of us who use the SV and are tired of buy multiple programs.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|
StepD
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 594
- Joined: 2003/11/08 01:03:52
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/10 01:02:54
(permalink)
jsg
Could someone who uses staff view frequently please do me a favor? In X1d, I find that if I go the staff view and open the floating control bar and choose and enter a dotted note on the staff, say a dotted eighth note, and then choose a triplet, say a triplet eighth note, the first time I put the triplet on the staff I get a dotted note or a regular note instead! The 2nd time I choose a triplet, it works correctly.
Can someone verify that this is occuring on another system?
Thanks a lot!
Yes, I can confirm that behavior here using the same recipe.
Core2 6600 2.40 GHz, ASUS P5B Deluxe, 8GB RAM, GeForce GT 630 2GB, 3 Seagate Sata, Echo AudioFire 4 asio, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab
|
Jimbo 88
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1828
- Joined: 2007/03/19 12:27:17
- Location: Elmhurst, Illinois USA
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/10 01:04:45
(permalink)
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:Want an improved Staff View? Raise your hand.
2012/03/10 01:14:58
(permalink)
It's one thing to see release after release go by with no attention paid to SV, but it is another to see releases come out which actually degrade SV functionality. This speaks volumes. It would imply that there isn't even regression testing for the SV, to see if has been affected by any new code changes.
|