PC2A & a Blue Screen

I think these are related and am wondering if anyone else has this issue or thoughts on it.
 
I've had my system running & stable for a couple of years.  I upgraded to X1 Expanded and after a few glitches & some getting used to it, have been very happy.  I love the Pro Channel.  I installed the X1d patch and worked for a while - went great.  I downloaded the PC2A, monkeyed around with it a little then shut down.  On the next startup, when I began playing back that same project, I got the blue screen of death and a never-ending cycle of crashes and automatic reboots.  I couldn't even get the computer to work right in safe mode.  (I'm still on Win XP).
 
After consulting at length with a friend who does tech support for a living, I reformatted my hard drive and put in everything fresh.  Right up to X1d and the PC2A.  When I finally went back into X1 and played back that same project: Blue Screen of Death.
 
I managed to start in Safe Mode and uninstall PC2A.  Now I've been working on that same project for a couple of hours making great progress on my mix.  Is this the PC2A or a red herring?
 
Thanks for your thoughts,
Seth

sethmopod


I think these are related and am wondering if anyone else has this issue or thoughts on it.
 
I've had my system running & stable for a couple of years.  I upgraded to X1 Expanded and after a few glitches & some getting used to it, have been very happy.  I love the Pro Channel.  I installed the X1d patch and worked for a while - went great.  I downloaded the PC2A, monkeyed around with it a little then shut down.  On the next startup, when I began playing back that same project, I got the blue screen of death and a never-ending cycle of crashes and automatic reboots.  I couldn't even get the computer to work right in safe mode.  (I'm still on Win XP).
 
After consulting at length with a friend who does tech support for a living, I reformatted my hard drive and put in everything fresh.  Right up to X1d and the PC2A.  When I finally went back into X1 and played back that same project: Blue Screen of Death.
 
I managed to start in Safe Mode and uninstall PC2A.  Now I've been working on that same project for a couple of hours making great progress on my mix.  Is this the PC2A or a red herring?
 
Thanks for your thoughts,
Seth

Hi Seth - it seems to be a lot people who have complaints are on XP. But that is just a guess on my part. I would check the audio drivers - maybe uninstall those and then reinstall. That seems to be another route people with initial problems are taking.

I didn't see any PC specs or which audio card your using. That would be good info to have.

I using the next step up from yours  - Vista64 with a delta 1010. Smooth sailing here...

Hey Seth . . . I'm also on Win Xp, running Producer Expanded X1d, and have installed the PC2A Prochannel module, and it's running with no issues. I use the M-Audio Delta 66 audio card.

My only issues with X1d have been outdated plugins + loading older projects, but Cakewalk tech support helped me fix it.
My version of X1d on Win XP actually works quite well, with the obvious limitations of not overloading projects
with too many plugs for the RAM.
No BSD for me.

So, what about PC La2A ? Various users have complained that this module was the source of numerous bugs, instability and even causing crashes : Does it appears only on Win XP  ?

A bsod is a sign of incompatible hardware. Have you made a note of what code pops up on the blue screen? That will sometimes tell you where the conflict is.

Personally, I think that Cakewalk should stop saying that they support WinXP. I used X1 on XPpro up until X1c, then I switched to Win7pro on the same machine. The change as far as glitches was like night and day. I'm always resistant to change simply because I don't like to mess with what works. But, XP was no longer working for me so I made the decision to move ahead, and so glad that I did.

I've had problems with the new plug in, and I run W7 @ 64 bits on a good computer.  My system was rock solid until I downloaded and installed PC2A, and I believe that I'm not the only one.

peter434


So, what about PC La2A ? Various users have complained that this module was the source of numerous bugs, instability and even causing crashes : Does it appears only on Win XP  ?

Hi Lynn,
Consequently, PC2A remains problematic, even on recent system ! Have you deinstalled it ?

Driver mod ?

Info on my system:
Windows XP
Gigabyte K8U-939 motherboard
Athlon 64 x2 4200+ dual-core processor
1.5 GB ram
Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 i/o firewire interface
Sonar X1d expanded

New happenings: 
After uninstalling PC2A in safe mode last night, I worked on my mix for a couple of hours - no problems.  Got home today booted up, started X1, loaded my project, hit play, listened to about 7 seconds of music - BSOD!  Automatic reboot - BSOD!  Automatic reboot - diverted to safe mode, ran for a bit - BSOD!

I talked to my tech-support friend again, and given my descriptions, I'm wiping the hard drive and doing another fresh install of Windows.  He suggests that I make sure that I'm running the most current BIOS for my mobo, so I'll check for that when I get windows all the way back in sometime tomorrow.

Some thoughts on replies:
- hardware conflict: My system has been stable for a long time - close to 2 years.  I've made no hardware changes.  The only thing that changed was updating to X1d and PC2A.  On two of my BSODs, I was able to get some info.  One referenced the file Win32k.sys.  Another referenced NTFS.sys.

Still open to thoughts about this or advice on bringing my system back up a little bit at a time to at least get effective trouble shooting.

Seth

In advanced tab of system properties, you need to go to "start up and recovery" and un-tick "automatically restart" and then report the actual stop error so we can debug. There are many reasons for a BSOD from driver problems to hardware problems. Usually an app (like Sonar) can't cause a BSOD directly because the error has to happen in Kernel mode. This could be bad memory, a bad driver, a disk problem, etc. But we can't tell without the stop code. If your PC has been stable for years, I doubt this is a BIOS problem.

Are you using asio or Wdm ?
Try with another interface ....

Erase what's in AUD.ini to force Sonar to reprofile audio ....

A memory test would be good to do before wiping & reinstalling.

Read the BSOD dump if there is one. It'll tell you what is causing it.

By the time I read the new responses, I had already wiped and re-installed windows.  I checked on it, and found that there was a newer version of the BIOS for my mobo, so I figured "what the hay" and flashed it.  Now, all I get is the message "NTLDR is missing."  

I have a utility to fix that on Hiren's Boot CD, but it didn't work.  I've read up on it a little bit and it sounds like I may as well wipe the HD again rather than try to rig up a fix.  It's not like I have any data to lose....

I won't work on this until at least tomorrow afternoon, so any further advice is appreciated.  I'll even read it before I screw up anything new this time!  


Seth

Have you been working the same project all this time or is it with any project.  You may just have a currupted project file if you don't install the VST plugin and you still have the same problem.  Not sure about the whole XP issue though.

BSOD are not always driver or hardware related.

There is a guitar template preset in X1 that has Sonitus plugs in it that cause my DAW to hard crash with an actual Blue Screen in Windows 7. Yet, I can add the same exact Sonitus plugs manually, and I get no crashes. It's only when I use the template.
I know a lot of people say BSOD are caused by hardware and drivers, but that's not always the case. It is a vast majority of the time, but not always.

Seth ... are you familiar with how to make an XP slipstream installation CD? It will save you hours of time ... it's nothing illegal ... you'll need to copy your original XP install CD to your desktop and then follow the instructions on this web site to update the OEM installation files with the latest XP updates and then burn it all back to a bootable XP installation disc ...

http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/

Still working on this a little at a time.  I got the NTLDR problem solved - there was a sneaky little BIOS setting that was causing it.

At this point, I've been installing 1 item testing, installing 1 item testing, etc.  Right now, I have Windows XP, Adobe Reader, & Sonar X1c Expanded, all of my plugins except PC2A & nothing else.  It seems totally stable so far.  (I've been making restore points at every change in the system)

To answer Wave's question: the BSOD only ever started on one project, but once it happened the first time, it kept happening - even when Sonar wasn't running.  As of now, I've played back that project several times and some others.

It's bedtime now, but tomorrow I should be able to go to X1d and test again.

I'd say that you have some HDD problem seeing as you're getting the ntfs. Sys file error showing up.

With the number of times you've recently reinstalled your full OS I'd say you at least need to do a complete reformat of you drive. Of you have already then the drive is probably on the way out. Get a new one

I'm up to X1d now and have run several projects repeatedly including the one that has previously induced my BSOD.  So far so good.  Stable as can be.  I've tried every condition I could think of when previous BSODs came on.

I've got to go to sleep again, but tomorrow I think I risk it and put PC2A back in and see what happens.
 
To Mudgel: the last two times I reinstalled, I did a full format of the C: drive.  I had asked my tech-support friend about this and he said it was always better to take the time and do it that way rather than the quick format.

check your hard drive,how old is it?
download the free 30 day trail of sentenial hard disk sentenial

http://www.hdsentinel.com/

everytime i hear about the blue screen of death its either an hd or ram,occationaly a cpu but 7 out of 8 its the hard drive.

sethmopod


By the time I read the new responses, I had already wiped and re-installed windows.  I checked on it, and found that there was a newer version of the BIOS for my mobo, so I figured "what the hay" and flashed it.  Now, all I get is the message "NTLDR is missing."  

When you flashed your BIOS, it probably changed the SATA mode to ACHI.  Change it back to legacy mode and you should be able to boot.

I came home from work.  Fired up the computer gave it one more run before installing the PC2A - BSOD!

So, on X1d, playing a particular file, I get BSOD.  PC2A is not installed, but there may be a reference to it in this project file since it is the one I initially monkeyed around with it on.  This may be a red herring.  Next step is checking the HDD.  This does not happen during any application except Sonar though.

The error message on the BSOD was:
Stop: 0x0000008E (0xC0000005, 0x805E3BB7, 0xB34ADC3C, 0x00000000)

I located the .dmp file, but I can't figure out how to open it. 

Seth

I've not used this but someone posts this a lot http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html

FBB has a method too. http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=1629677

Thanks for that handsome1.  I read the dump and the report says it's "Caused By Driver: ntoskrnl.exe"

Did some googling on that and didn't come up with much that made sense to me.  One person fixed with a reinstall, another with a memory problem. 

Off to more tests.

Chuckebaby: Thanks for that link.  Hard Disk Sentinel says my disk is "Perfect."  It won't do the "extended self test" without a purchased copy, though.

Anyone have any recommendations for a good memory checking program?

Seth
 
 
(edited to correct typo)

When I had a serious memory problem to where the ram actually wasn't meant for my machine because of the voltage, none of the memory checkers worked. They all told me my memory was fine. Right now, ram is cheap. I'd advise you to buy some new ram, 4 gigs since you're on XP. If you get the same results, then you can just return the ram for a small discount. If you have more money to spend, I'd bump up to Win7. I planned on using XP until the end of time, but after coming across Win7 pro for a steal, I took the plunge. All the little problems that I had with X1 disappeared. 

More than likely, your disc is fine. You get NTFS errors with bad memory because the ram is trying to write to a space on the drive that it isn't allowed to.

http://www.memtest86.com/ http://www.memtest.org/

If you haven't done it already, I's take the covers off your machine and verify that all the cards - especially the RAM & Video cards are seated properly.

Don't just try and push them in any further - take them out and re-install. They should all emit an audible 'click' when they're seated properly.

Take the usual anti-static precautions.

Cards are seated.  Memory & hard drives are tested.  Everything checks out so far.  Here's where I'm at:

On a given installation, bsod happens for the 1st time only in x1d and only on a specific file.  After it happens the 1st time, it starts happening randomly whether sonar is running or not.  ntoskrnl.exe is implicated as the responsible driver.  I've been told that this is an unusual problem. 

Current suggestions:
I have 2gig of ram across 4 sticks.  The memory is matched pairs of two different brands.  I will be investing in new memory soon with everything of the same brand & batch.

The continues bsods may be from something left in the swap file from the initial event.  Turn off virtual memory.  2gig should be plenty to run the system without needing the virtual stuff.

Restore system to x1c and forget about it.  I was working in it just fine, but x1d has some bug fixes that I'd like to benefit from...

I appreciate all of the thoughts and suggestions so far.  Any comments on the current crop of next things to try?

Seth

At the top of your blue screen will be a message line that gives you an error category.

You can google "blue screen" with the error category and probably get more info than you want.

The hex numbers can be used with the dmp analysis to determine exactly which process is responsible for the stop.
You would need another program to actually read and interpret the dmp file.  There are services online that do
this sort of thing for a living.

I really don't think X1 works properly with that much ram. I tried to install it on my old system that has XP pro and 2 gigs and it wouldn't do much of anything but choke on complex files. Very simple stuff runs slowly. 8.5 on the same system runs much better.

It appears like X1 plus the Pro Channel plugs needs a good amount of CPU and ram. On the current system it's as fine as it gets.

I've just finished restarting and running the problem file several times with no BSOD!  The changes since the last BSOD: reseating cards; turning off virtual memory.

I'm cautiously optomistic at this point.  I'm setting a restore point and might try to install PC2A this evening and see what happens.

Seth