2 questions about electronic drumkits + Sonar

Hi, I'm about to pick up an electronic drumkit. Now i'm wondering is there anything i should know of before buying one? I know they range from 300 dollars to 1000's. I was planning to spend about 500/600 dollars. I only will use it to record with Sonar. Any recommendations and do's or dont's? Also i'm wondering is it possible to have several pieces of the drumkit panned to left or right? I mean you record it as one track i assume so it would suck if every piece sounds like it's coming from the same place. Know what i mean? Thank you!!

To get the most from your money, you should get a (reasonably) cheap kit and use it with a software sampler program, such as the ones from Toontrack, FXpansion, Native Instruments etc. These drum sounds will almost certainly be Superior (pun intended) to the ones included with your kit, unless you get a super-highend kit. Furthermore you will get limitless flexibilty in terms of mixing/processing after recording.

In fact you would record it as a seperate track for each instrument.

Then there's recording the MIDI and recording or bouncing the MIDI to audio using a plugin instead of the sounds that your kit's electronic brain generates. You'll have lots of options.

As others have recommended - you'll primarily use your electronic drums to record midi patterns in Sonar - then route those midi patterns through drum software for great sounds.  Personally I love FXPansion's BFD2. 

Depending on how much you're planning on playing the drums - less expensive kits tend to have harder rubber pads, which I find very different to regular drums and hurt my wrists after a while (I likely hit them too hard) - so I highly recommend checking out different kits - some will be more fatiguing to play than others.  If you're not going to play them much (only for recording) then maybe this isn't an issue for you.  Roland makes several models (as others do)with 'mesh' pads - basically they look like real drums (only not quite as deep) with a mesh skin - which feels much more similar to a regular acoustic drum then a hitting a hard rubber pad. 

Hope htis helps.
Russ

Awesome, this really helps me! Thanks so much!

SvenArne, with a software sampler program you mean something outside of Sonar? Not a plugin but a stand alone program?

You should make sure it has both USB and MIDI IN/OUT connections. 

Have you given any thought as to how you are going to amplify it or will you only be working through headphones? 

Tripod


SvenArne, with a software sampler program you mean something outside of Sonar? Not a plugin but a stand alone program?

All of the drum software out there can be used in your host. 
If you are wanting to use it in stand alone then I think I'm right in saying that fxpansions BFD2 and BFD Eco are the only
ones that can be used this way. If you check out BFD2 and the price puts you off then there's always it's little brother BFD Eco but BFD2 is a little better for E-drumming.


Steve

Actually I thought most separate drum software packages can be used in standalone mode as well as a VST plugin - however please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Also.. to the original poster - if you already have X1 producer, you can use session drummer in the manner as described above.  The acoustic samples aren't as good in SD compard to BFD2 in my opinion, but it may be good to try that first before spending more $$ on a separate package. 

karma1959


Actually I thought most separate drum software packages can be used in standalone mode as well as a VST plugin - however please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Also.. to the original poster - if you already have X1 producer, you can use session drummer in the manner as described above.  The acoustic samples aren't as good in SD compard to BFD2 in my opinion, but it may be good to try that first before spending more $$ on a separate package. 

I know RMX, Addictive Drums and Ezdrummer don't have stand alone and I'm sure superior drums doesn't either.
All the kontakt drums such as abbey road I think can be played via the kontakt stand alone player come to think of it.
Obviously Session drummer is tied to sonar.


Not only is the sample quality well below BFD2 (and Eco) it's not the most suitable for e-drummers either but as you say,
a good place to start.


Steve

posted twice somehow 

I have Superior Drummer which came with Toontrack Solo. If I understand correctly Toontrack Solo is the "stand alone" software for EZ Drummer and Superior Drummer.

http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=25 This is the link

Apologies, I stand corrected, I have the darn thing too but not sure I ever used it since I have no e-drums.

Steve

I don't have any e-drums either Steve. The only reason I knew about "Solo" is because I just recently bought Superior Drummer and was checkin' out all the stuff that came with it.

I use a Roland TD-4K kit, which is cheap but has a few bells and whistles such as double zone pads for the snare and cymbals, which really helps in terms of playability. 

I use it with Superior 2.0, BFD Eco and NI Abby Road 60s Drummer. They all have their strengths, but feel that Superior wins in terms of instant playability with no tweaking required to get up and running!

I just purchased an Alesis DM8 USB kit for $420. and am using it to control BFD2.. All I can say is WOW!!! It is awesome. At first it was a bit overwhelming with all of the options. Watch a couple of youtube vids and you are up and running. I'm sure all of the drum software products are similar and there are lots of vids out there to help.  

I also got the DM8 USB kit to control Session Drummer 3 which came with sonar. You can get expansion kits for about $40, (I think).  I haven't played with it much, but it controlled SD3 with no tweeking, right out of the box.  Need to figure out the cymbal choke and hi hat pedal.  I purchased BFD2 before I even heard about SD3. I would suggest start with SD3 and look for vids and post in the forum. I think that will get you quite far before upgrading. SD3 may not be as capable as BFD2, however i think it will do lots and a few of the kits sound really good.

good luck!

The thing about recording midi drums where drummers are concerned is latency. I have a pretty mean system, can record w/o incident @ 32 samples, but drummers still complain about the gap between strike and note sounding. You can monitor the sounds off your module to get the instant response, then mix drum rompler to taste afterward.

Steven Slate Drums 4 is killer. Zildjian samples are the best I've heard. Enjoy recording!

Sorry, i was gone for 2 days. I will read all the replies now. Thanks a lot!

ive got an alesis sr 16,probably one of the lowest price drum machines out there,its also been around for years,thing with that is x1 has the drum map built in to its defaults so all you have to do is plug a midi cable in to the sr 16 midi out put and then load session drummer up then start hitting the kick pad on the drum machine and you hear a kick from session drummers kit,same with the snare,tap the snare pad..you hear the snare drum triggering sd3.i usualy write all my parts in the drum machine then arrange them in the drum machine,then hit play in sonar and it triggers the drum machine to play the whole song(you need to set up your midi settings first)its the easiest way ive found of doing it.so you dont need a nice expensive drum machine,you need a basic one with good arragment capabilitys and midi outputs(most have them)..your panning is done within sonar your velocitys can be done in both but i chose to use my sr16's velocitys.
 
by the way you can pick up a used sr 16 for about 100.00 bucks,sometimes even under a hundred.

For the samples/sounds part of this.. BFD2 is a great sounding VST!  Addictive Drums, Superior Drummer 2, and even NI Battery for the electronica. ; )

I just purchased an Alesis DM8 USB kit for $420. and am using it to control BFD2


Does anyone know how the DM8 PRO kit sound compares to Superior and/or BFD2?

Does anyone know how the DM8 PRO kit sound compares to Superior and/or BFD2?


As far as I know, the differece between the DM8 USB and the DM8 Pro kits, are the trigger pads and cymbals.  The DM8 drum module is the same.  The drum sounds from the module are actully pretty good, but the sounds in BFD2 and even SD3 are better in my opinion.  The DM8 sounds will get you pretty far but you cant edit or change them after the fact.  My DM8 USB kit/module synced up to SD3 with no effort, general midi, right out of the box. as i mentioned, need to figure out a couple things like cymbal choke etc.  Expansion kits are available and cheap.  If I had known of SD3 prior to purchasing BFD2, I probly would have just used SD3 and figured it out.  Hopefully this helps a bit.

Another vote for BFD2 here - and at the moment it's going for £99

I think it was around the £250 mark when I got it.

BFD2

TraceyStudios


Does anyone know how the DM8 PRO kit sound compares to Superior and/or BFD2?


As far as I know, the differece between the DM8 USB and the DM8 Pro kits, are the trigger pads and cymbals.  The DM8 drum module is the same.  The drum sounds from the module are actully pretty good, but the sounds in BFD2 and even SD3 are better in my opinion.  The DM8 sounds will get you pretty far but you cant edit or change them after the fact.  My DM8 USB kit/module synced up to SD3 with no effort, general midi, right out of the box. as i mentioned, need to figure out a couple things like cymbal choke etc.  Expansion kits are available and cheap.  If I had known of SD3 prior to purchasing BFD2, I probly would have just used SD3 and figured it out.  Hopefully this helps a bit.

Thanks Tracey,

Randy

If BFD2 is only $99, GET IT!!!!!!!!!!  Well worth it!

TraceyStudios


If BFD2 is only $99, GET IT!!!!!!!!!!  Well worth it!

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the £99 deal was until the end of March and it's now back at it's normal price of £175. Obviously not as good but still money well spent. Apart from (or as well as) my computer, sonar and my Pod X3 Live it's the best thing I have spent money on since I use it in every single project.


Steve

Hey Steve, I know you're usually spot on, but take a look at this mate:

http://www.google.co.uk/p...A&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAM

Bristol_Jonesey


Hey Steve, I know you're usually spot on, but take a look at this mate:

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&q=BFD2&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=858&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=2653508855458904011&sa=X&ei=DsGPT8KIIcis8gOzvfWnBA&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAM

 

Well It's very nice to be proven wrong in this case. I added BFD2 to my basket and the price remained so get it while you can I'd say. It is at £175 on the fxpansion site but I guess if andertons and gak and all the other outlets bought it at £99 and they still have them in stock then they have to sell them at the price they bought them which might be why the are still at the sale price. I have seen this before where the price hasn't been updated and when you actually go to pay you are billed for the full amount.
 
Steve

I suggest getting a kit with at least a good snare. So the material type one, not the rubber. Makes rolls on the snare much easier and they sound more realistic because it behaves like a real kit.

If you want realistic sounding drums, you're going to struggle from the cymbal side of things. Unless your cymbal playing is SUPER simple, it just doesn't sound realistic. A great option is to use a MIDI drum kit, sample the drums through BFD, and then set up a nice REAL set of cymbals over the kit. Get a pair of suitable overhead mics and record the cymbal playing as well as the MIDI playing. Combine the two for a professional sounding drum kit on a very limited budget. Hell, the entire drum kit is often replaced digitally after recording so often these days that you might as well just do this from the start! This is how I record my drums and I think it sounds great. I have not got any audio samples up on the internet yet but if you want to hear the un-mixed result, let me know and I'd be happy to put it up for you.

Also consider second hand, but you'll want to play it first to make sure the velocity pads are working properly.