musicroom
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Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
Overall Project Tempo Changes - Time Stretching /Shrinking
Going to put in a feature request, but I wanted to first check here to see if I'm missing something. I understand that Ableton Live, Logic, and Reaper and maybe others can do this with ease. I don't think we can do this very easily in Sonar? And... I want it. :)
My recent dilemma: Had a mixed stereo song file that needed an increase in tempo from 103 to 109bpm. In X1, I used control drag on the clip (yellow line) and bounced to clips. Sounded fine I think... But the bouncing took a while. Trial and error on getting to the tempo I wanted versus time to bounce didn't lend itself to experimenting much.
I'm clumsy in audiosnap, but from what I've tried it's takes a lot of manual manipulation with a tool that is a little cryptic for me, and that's okay if I end up with a better finished product. Not so sure though.
I imported the track into another daw, and my work was done as soon as I dragged the clip for a tempo change. Again, I want that in Sonar. I like working within my favorite daw and staying put.
Am I missing something?
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bvideo
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 18:54:27
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☄ Helpful
The same stretching algorithms are available in multiple forms. You tried control drag, and there is audio snap for fine-tuned variations in stretching. But the one you probably want is "process->length ..." from the main menu. There, check the stretch audio and give a % (103/109). Then select one of the stretching algorithms. Radius mix advanced is pretty good at stretching. You can adjust "pitch" and "phase" coherence. If you want to experiment, do it with a short subclip, because - yes - it takes a long time, single CPU.
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musicroom
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 19:00:21
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bvideo
The same stretching algorithms are available in multiple forms. You tried control drag, and there is audio snap for fine-tuned variations in stretching. But the one you probably want is "process->length ..." from the main menu. There, check the stretch audio and give a % (103/109). Then select one of the stretching algorithms. Radius mix advanced is pretty good at stretching. You can adjust "pitch" and "phase" coherence. If you want to experiment, do it with a short subclip, because - yes - it takes a long time, single CPU.
Thanks bvideo. I did not know about that one, and I will try it out. There is also Time/Pitch Stretch 2 that cake offers via selecting the audio clip and right clicking -> process effects -> audio effects. That one is great, but takes a long time to process. I usually cut a small portion of the clip I want to edit and put it on a throw away track to experiment with the settings before taking on a whole clip to process.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 19:14:19
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☄ Helpful
Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking No. But it's a good request to put in, go for it. Some other apps going from 103 to 109 would be a breeze. You'd just change the tempo and everything (audio/midi) just adjusts itself to the new tempo with everything perfectly aligned. Obviously the further you go the audio will be affected but 6 bpm like that you probably wouldn't notice much difference if any. It's great for when you've tracked something already and you ain't quite feeling it, or for recording a part your fingers can't keep up with unless you drop a few bpm and then speed it up again after tracking, or even making subtle changes within a song to say push a chorus against a verse. Stuff like that. I would think it's being worked on already as it's one of those 'me too' DAW features that is becoming more common, but worth putting a request in all the same.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/05/08 19:21:34
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musicroom
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 19:26:33
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A little while later:
I tried this (Process -> Length) and it works. Like you mentioned - long processing time.
Which algorithm do you think is better changing the tempo of a mixed stereo file? -> MPEX Polyphonic or Radius Mix (advanced)
What I found surprised me. The MPEX Poly was warbled sounding, even did a bounce to clips and no improvement. I then tried MPEX Solo and... it sounded better on the song mix.
Then I tried Radius Mix and Radius Mix Advanced - both sounded good with the placibo effect going to Advanced as the slight winner.
I did a little web research and actually expected MPEX to sound and work better. Not finished trying things here, so my thoughts may change.
@jonbouy, Thanks and I did put in the Feature Request submitted per the orig post
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fcarosone
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 19:45:32
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I did process/length in my last project, to speed up a voice from 59 to 78 bpm. I remember using windows calculator to make proportions.. It worked fine with Radius mix, best of all. Advanced no better, and slower. There is a free article on Sound on Sound on this.
"Below the realm of the musical note lies the realm of microsound. Sound coalesce, evaporate, and mutate into other sounds" (Curtis Roads) http://www.carosone.eu/
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 19:51:28
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Actually, its super easy to do with AudioSnap.
- Select all tracks
- Turn on AudioSnap
- Click the Clips Follow Project option
- Change tempo
The clips will change tempo automatically without changing pitch. Groove Clips, of course, do this automatically.
SP
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Jonbouy
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 20:18:45
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Actually, its super easy to do with AudioSnap.
- Select all tracks
- Turn on AudioSnap
- Click the Clips Follow Project option
- Change tempo
The clips will change tempo automatically without changing pitch. Groove Clips, of course, do this automatically.
SP
Well there ya go. I learned something here. I'm off to play. And compare.... 
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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chuckebaby
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 20:30:23
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musicroom
A little while later:
I tried this (Process -> Length) and it works. Like you mentioned - long processing time.
Which algorithm do you think is better changing the tempo of a mixed stereo file? -> MPEX Polyphonic or Radius Mix (advanced)
What I found surprised me. The MPEX Poly was warbled sounding, even did a bounce to clips and no improvement. I then tried MPEX Solo and... it sounded better on the song mix.
Then I tried Radius Mix and Radius Mix Advanced - both sounded good with the placibo effect going to Advanced as the slight winner.
I did a little web research and actually expected MPEX to sound and work better. Not finished trying things here, so my thoughts may change.
@jonbouy, Thanks and I did put in the Feature Request submitted per the orig post
i think its a very fair request,it could be as easy as having a toggle button to change all tracks tempos or pitch and tempo because lets face it the reason it is like it is,i think stems from the earlier builds of cakewalk and sonar where process/lenth was the key to stretching(before audiosnap days) then we factor in pitch along with this. that was a whole seperate feature. so to combine these and make them as one is impossible,you need two settings,time stretch/pitch change or not pitch change. a simple toggle button next to the metrodone would suffice? then again for all we know the feature is embbedded deep in the program and not so easy to change.
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bvideo
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/08 22:46:28
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I worked for a while on slowing down a song. I thought radius mix advanced was best with raising the pitch slider to 75%. Speeding up, I don't know. MPEX wasn't as good. ----- BTW the same choice of algorithms & settings exists in the audiosnap settings, too, if you choose the "super easy" route.
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musicroom
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/09 01:47:47
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]
Actually, its super easy to do with AudioSnap.
- Select all tracks
- Turn on AudioSnap
- Click the Clips Follow Project option
- Change tempo
The clips will change tempo automatically without changing pitch. Groove Clips, of course, do this automatically.
SP
Thanks Seth - I tried this and it seems to be okay. Wondering if the track would then need rendered offline or bounce to clips after doing this to be able to hear the final results with the project still open?
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/09 02:30:04
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Seth's method is demonstrated in one of my videos. The online render which you can hear in that isn't too bad.
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John T
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/09 03:07:17
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Yeah, that's how I do it. I think it's best to bounce all the stretched and to clips afterwards, to get a truer representatn of what you're working with. It's also less CPU intensive on playback.
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Freddie H
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/09 04:50:58
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bvideo
The same stretching algorithms are available in multiple forms. You tried control drag, and there is audio snap for fine-tuned variations in stretching. But the one you probably want is "process->length ..." from the main menu. There, check the stretch audio and give a % (103/109). Then select one of the stretching algorithms. Radius mix advanced is pretty good at stretching. You can adjust "pitch" and "phase" coherence. If you want to experiment, do it with a short subclip, because - yes - it takes a long time, single CPU.
To make it even clear. 1. You can CTRL + drag the clip edge to "fast stretch it". The clip appears yellow if you do. 2. If you want "the stretch" "clip" sound even better and with a higher sound quality without any artifact you just render the clip. "Internal rendering" Izotope
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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musicroom
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/09 14:20:24
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Freddie H
bvideo
The same stretching algorithms are available in multiple forms. You tried control drag, and there is audio snap for fine-tuned variations in stretching. But the one you probably want is "process->length ..." from the main menu. There, check the stretch audio and give a % (103/109). Then select one of the stretching algorithms. Radius mix advanced is pretty good at stretching. You can adjust "pitch" and "phase" coherence. If you want to experiment, do it with a short subclip, because - yes - it takes a long time, single CPU.
To make it even clear.
1. You can CTRL + drag the clip edge to "fast stretch it". The clip appears yellow if you do.
2. If you want "the stretch" "clip" sound even better and with a higher sound quality without any artifact you just render the clip. "Internal rendering" Izotope
I'm glad we have this way to work. It could be improved a lot though from what I used in another daw. I certainly would be glad to know others put in a feature request to move this one up the development cycle.
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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Freddie H
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/10 01:12:51
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musicroom
Freddie H
bvideo
The same stretching algorithms are available in multiple forms. You tried control drag, and there is audio snap for fine-tuned variations in stretching. But the one you probably want is "process->length ..." from the main menu. There, check the stretch audio and give a % (103/109). Then select one of the stretching algorithms. Radius mix advanced is pretty good at stretching. You can adjust "pitch" and "phase" coherence. If you want to experiment, do it with a short subclip, because - yes - it takes a long time, single CPU.
To make it even clear.
1. You can CTRL + drag the clip edge to "fast stretch it". The clip appears yellow if you do.
2. If you want "the stretch" "clip" sound even better and with a higher sound quality without any artifact you just render the clip. "Internal rendering" Izotope
I'm glad we have this way to work. It could be improved a lot though from what I used in another daw. I certainly would be glad to know others put in a feature request to move this one up the development cycle.
Note* render the orginal "Yellow stretch"-clip to a new clip. No need to use the "process->length". So very easy and very fast and simple procedure.
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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musicroom
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/10 02:36:11
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Note* render the orginal "Yellow stretch"-clip to a new clip. No need to use the "process->length". So very easy and very fast and simple procedure. Best Regards Freddie I think the point of using the process->length is for some who may know the exact bpm that are striving for and prefer to type those values or percentages in a dialog box.
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bvideo
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Re:Can Sonar easily do Time Stretching /Shrinking
2012/05/10 09:37:05
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Freddie H
musicroom
Freddie H
bvideo
The same stretching algorithms are available in multiple forms. You tried control drag, and there is audio snap for fine-tuned variations in stretching. But the one you probably want is "process->length ..." from the main menu. There, check the stretch audio and give a % (103/109). Then select one of the stretching algorithms. Radius mix advanced is pretty good at stretching. You can adjust "pitch" and "phase" coherence. If you want to experiment, do it with a short subclip, because - yes - it takes a long time, single CPU.
To make it even clear.
1. You can CTRL + drag the clip edge to "fast stretch it". The clip appears yellow if you do.
2. If you want "the stretch" "clip" sound even better and with a higher sound quality without any artifact you just render the clip. "Internal rendering" Izotope
I'm glad we have this way to work. It could be improved a lot though from what I used in another daw. I certainly would be glad to know others put in a feature request to move this one up the development cycle.
Note* render the orginal "Yellow stretch"-clip to a new clip. No need to use the "process->length". So very easy and very fast and simple procedure.
Also Note* this is the first method the OP tried before making the first post.
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